Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[Summoned]

38 years is not exactly "late in life"

Not to be overly morbid, but we can’t actually be sure of that just yet.

 

[DaveJones2]

For all of us that have passively aggressively thrown shade on Sylvan Adams, sorry from me. The guy feels like many, disappointed when you sign a Tour level rider and the guy can't put together 2 days of climbing, forget about contesting a stage race. For Adams to call a spade a spade is refreshing. And this should all be a cautionary tale about thinking too new school.. thinking backstory and things off the bike being a measurable factor. The real substance to all of this is Froome's reactions.. both.. On and off the bike. Froome is walking on a razor edge.. Being called a waste of money loser by his owner, and depending on what Froome does and says, is his baggage actually weighing him down. I got an ear to ear grin having someone who matters say straight.. All that recovering from injury tiny violins sing song is over.. We are paying you to produce... So produce already.

Completely disagree with this sentiment really.

This entire situation is Sylvan Adam's fault and yet I don't see any admission from him of this fact. Froome suffered life-changing injuries in that crash, and at his age the chances of him ever recovering to anywhere near his previous level were extremely slim. You don't need to be a sports injury specialist to know this. Adams would have been advised on this by medical experts and would have been well aware of the huge risk he was taking. There was no evidence whatsoever of a decent recovery and yet he took the risk to offer a huge & long contract with seemingly no exit clauses in this context.

Clearly this massive gamble hasn't paid off, and now the situation is playing out exactly as you would expect.

There is no doubt Froome has tarnished his legacy by continuing with such futility, but a large percentage of elite athletes will clearly behave in this manner given it's this attitude that got them to such a level in the first place. So again, very much not unexpected.

Adams "telling it like it is" would involve admitting he took a massive gamble, probably against medical advice (it's not as if Froome could have concealed the extent of his injuries), and offered a ridiculous contract without any mitigating clauses whatsoever.

Presumably what he's actually doing is starting an attempt to humiliate Froome into retiring by waging a very public war of words - which is only necessary because of his own incompetence in the first place.

 

[Rackham]

Completely disagree with this sentiment really.

This entire situation is Sylvan Adam's fault and yet I don't see any admission from him of this fact. Froome suffered life-changing injuries in that crash, and at his age the chances of him ever recovering to anywhere near his previous level were extremely slim. You don't need to be a sports injury specialist to know this. Adams would have been advised on this by medical experts and would have been well aware of the huge risk he was taking. There was no evidence whatsoever of a decent recovery and yet he took the risk to offer a huge & long contract with seemingly no exit clauses in this context.

Clearly this massive gamble hasn't paid off, and now the situation is playing out exactly as you would expect.

There is no doubt Froome has tarnished his legacy by continuing with such futility, but a large percentage of elite athletes will clearly behave in this manner given it's this attitude that got them to such a level in the first place. So again, very much not unexpected.

Adams "telling it like it is" would involve admitting he took a massive gamble, probably against medical advice (it's not as if Froome could have concealed the extent of his injuries), and offered a ridiculous contract without any mitigating clauses whatsoever.

Presumably what he's actually doing is starting an attempt to humiliate Froome into retiring by waging a very public war of words - which is only necessary because of his own incompetence in the first place.

Froome's crash developed mythical status after the fact & could be inserted into any excuse imaginable regarding 'why' he was so totally useless afterwards. It was dramatized by Froome & his fans based on their whims of the moment, i.e. downplayed on occasion ("Froome can still be competitive", which is what we heard from Froome's camp & his supporters in 2020, 2021 & even 2022) or conversely exaggerated, i.e. "he almost died!" "life changing injuries!" "blowing your nose on a TT bike has never been so dangerous!"

etc.

The fact remains Froome has been masterminding quite a scam over at Israel Premier Tech since he signed, I mean just check out this little gem of an interview from early 2021: https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/chris-froome-recovery-interview

It's all B.S. which reflects quite poorly on the man. I mean for sure there's an element of cynicism regarding Adams' interview where he publicly trashed his rider (he wants him out of the team & off the payroll) but it takes two to tango & Froome is absolutely not an innocent party in his late career choices which have turned into a bit of a public relations disaster for both his team & Froome himself.

Froome basically made beaucoup moneys at IPT... but he also made a tit out of himself as well.

 

[Valv.Piti]

We all know he is delusional and has been for a while, but lets not forget Adams. He's as much to blame if not more for all of this. I don't think you could find a single human being outside of himself, Froome and Michelle Cound that thought that the deal was good. You simply don't sign a somewhat regressing rider that just experienced such a crash and expect miracles! Im sure Brailsford was laughing at him.

I don't know the details about the economy, but signing a rider like Fuglsang is the same thing but on a lesser scale.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

It's all B.S. which reflects quite poorly on the man.

For me if you can be continuously unethical about ones condition
you could have been continuously unethical about other things too.

 

[Rackham]

We all know he is delusional and has been for a while, but lets not forget Adams. He's as much to blame if not more for all of this. I don't think you could find a single human being outside of himself, Froome and Michelle Cound that thought that the deal was good. You simply don't sign a somewhat regressing rider that just experienced such a crash and expect miracles! Im sure Brailsford was laughing at him.

I don't know the details about the economy, but signing a rider like Fuglsang is the same thing but on a lesser scale.

I found this except from the recent Cyclingnews article interesting, i.e. apparently the money involved with Froome's salary is not as much as previously assumed:

It has wrongly been reported that Froome is earning as much as €5 million per season - Froome denied that to Cyclingnews back in 2021.

Cyclingnews understands that the figure was linked to a sponsor that eventually opted not to come on board, with Froome estimated to earn around €1 million from Israel-Premier Tech.

Adams has already explained that Froome has a rolling contract that allows the four-time Tour de France winner to race on until he is 40 in 2025 but the agreement with Adams also means Froome will retire after his time at Israel-Premier Tech

For sure 1 million euros per season is motivation enough for Froome to activate his 2 year extension but I think his team could make his life quite miserable tbh.

If he continues, I expect Adams to get even 'nastier'.

 

[DaveJones2]

Froome's crash developed mythical status after the fact & could be inserted into any excuse imaginable regarding 'why' he was so totally useless afterwards. It was dramatized by Froome & his fans based on their whims of the moment, i.e. downplayed on occasion ("Froome can still be competitive", which is what we heard from Froome's camp & his supporters in 2020, 2021 & even 2022) or conversely exaggerated, i.e. "he almost died!" "life changing injuries!" "blowing your nose on a TT bike has never been so dangerous!"

etc.

The fact remains Froome has been masterminding quite a scam over at Israel Premier Tech since he signed, I mean just check out this little gem of an interview from early 2021: https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/chris-froome-recovery-interview

It's all B.S. which reflects quite poorly on the man. I mean for sure there's an element of cynicism regarding Adams' interview where he publicly trashed his rider (he wants him out of the team & off the payroll) but it takes two to tango & Froome is absolutely not an innocent party in his late career choices which have turned into a bit of a public relations disaster for both his team & Froome himself.

Froome basically made beaucoup moneys at IPT... but he also made a tit out of himself as well.

The facts of the accident have always been very clear. He sustained a nasty mulitfragmented open femoral fracture alongside some other injuries that only occur in a high-energy trauma (sternal fracture, rib fractures, pneumothorax etc). At the age of 34/35 or whatever it was, that is always going to have a very high likelihood of being a career-ending accident. You don't need to know any more specifics to understand that, and Adams would have been advised as such.

I'd note that knowhere in the article you linked does Froome ever state he's back to full fitness or in anything other than an ongoing rehab cycle so not sure what your point is there.

History is also littered with examples of elite athletes who refuse to accept that the end of their career has come and retire too late. I'm not saying that I agree at all with Froome's persistence or behaviour over the last few years but when coupled with the fact he continues to earn a million € per year to chase this dream/delusion/whatever you want to call it, it is certainly entirely predictable.

This situation is entirely, 100% on Adams. He absolutely would have been aware of the huge gamble he was taking. He's made this entirely predictable situation for himself through some appalling decision making and should be taking accountability for that if he wants to "tell it like it is..."

 

[tonymikejoe]

The fact that this Christopher Clive Froome thread has suddenly come back to life during the middle of a Tour de France he is not even competing in - and in such spectacular fashion - is one of life's great joys.

 

[Wyndbrook]

I find it quite sad that currantly there seem to be so many teams airing their washing in public.

 

[samhocking]

The facts of the accident have always been very clear. He sustained a nasty mulitfragmented open femoral fracture alongside some other injuries that only occur in a high-energy trauma (sternal fracture, rib fractures, pneumothorax etc). At the age of 34/35 or whatever it was, that is always going to have a very high likelihood of being a career-ending accident. You don't need to know any more specifics to understand that, and Adams would have been advised as such.

I'd note that knowhere in the article you linked does Froome ever state he's back to full fitness or in anything other than an ongoing rehab cycle so not sure what your point is there.

History is also littered with examples of elite athletes who refuse to accept that the end of their career has come and retire too late. I'm not saying that I agree at all with Froome's persistence or behaviour over the last few years but when coupled with the fact he continues to earn a million € per year to chase this dream/delusion/whatever you want to call it, it is certainly entirely predictable.

This situation is entirely, 100% on Adams. He absolutely would have been aware of the huge gamble he was taking. He's made this entirely predictable situation for himself through some appalling decision making and should be taking accountability for that if he wants to "tell it like it is..."

I don't know, everyone dealing with Froome's injuries at the time seemed pretty confident Froome would fully recover and not be affected. But just because's you're very succesfull doctor and surgeon doesn't mean you are always correct I guess. We'll never know if its the injury, the team he's in or just Froome playing it smart.

"He was optimistic despite his injuries not being simple. He seemed determined to ride again and return to racing. From a medical point of view there won't be a problem: he can recover from all his injuries. We're at the avant-garde at Saint-Etienne, a number of athletes have come to us to recover from injuries. Froome was unlucky with his crash but he was luckily close to us."

According to French media reports, Dr. Philippot performed the "most critical intervention, which involved a complex open fracture of the right femur." That lasted four hours. Gresta revealed his surgery on Froome's elbow lasted just 40 minutes. Froome was then placed in intensive care due to the nature of his injuries, the amount of blood he lost and the complex surgery.

"The intensive care? That was a precautionary measure due to the length of the surgery and considering that the patient had lost a lot of blood, more or less two litres," Gresta told La Gazzetta dello Sport.

"He's not facing any specific risk and its important he's calm and relaxed. He'll be transferred to the normal care unit as soon as possible. His recovery time depends on his desire to fight back but he seems very motivated. He could just need six months to be back stronger than before."

Chris Froome could come back stronger within six months, says surgeon | Cyclingnews.com

Orthopaedic surgeon reveals Froome lost two litres of blood after crash

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[Izzyeviel]

The fact that this Christopher Clive Froome thread has suddenly come back to life during the middle of a Tour de France he is not even competing in - and in such spectacular fashion - is one of life's great joys.

I think its more do with the fact it was announced he was riding the forthcoming Tour de Czech Republic. Which is one of the best hidden gems out there.

 

[bigcog]

I don't know, everyone dealing with Froome's injuries at the time seemed pretty confident Froome would fully recover and not be affected. But just because's you're very succesfull doctor and surgeon doesn't mean you are always correct I guess. We'll never know if its the injury, the team he's in or just Froome playing it smart.

Chris Froome could come back stronger within six months, says surgeon | Cyclingnews.com

Orthopaedic surgeon reveals Froome lost two litres of blood after crash

www.cyclingnews.com

They were as delusional as Froome, history shows riders don't return to the previous form if they have such accidents, obvious example Beloki. Plus Froome was old too. Post injury his best showing was as at the Vuelta when he was still at Ineos and he's got worse with age since then. Can't blame him for taking the money but obviously he has tarnished his legacy in the short term but in long term he'll just be a remembered as a GC rider who won TDF 4 times etc.

Will Froome be gone at the end of the 2023 season ?

 

[Blanco]

Meanwhile, his biggest rival nowadays, Henok Mulubrhan is netting wins...

 

[IndianCyclist]

Meanwhile, his biggest rival nowadays, Henok Mulubrhan is netting wins...

It doesn't count if the road is uphill or downhill or flat or bad equipment or on Earth cause alien Froome said so.

 

[Unchained]

Completely disagree with this sentiment really.

This entire situation is Sylvan Adam's fault and yet I don't see any admission from him of this fact. Froome suffered life-changing injuries in that crash, and at his age the chances of him ever recovering to anywhere near his previous level were extremely slim. You don't need to be a sports injury specialist to know this. Adams would have been advised on this by medical experts and would have been well aware of the huge risk he was taking. There was no evidence whatsoever of a decent recovery and yet he took the risk to offer a huge & long contract with seemingly no exit clauses in this context.

Clearly this massive gamble hasn't paid off, and now the situation is playing out exactly as you would expect.

There is no doubt Froome has tarnished his legacy by continuing with such futility, but a large percentage of elite athletes will clearly behave in this manner given it's this attitude that got them to such a level in the first place. So again, very much not unexpected.

Adams "telling it like it is" would involve admitting he took a massive gamble, probably against medical advice (it's not as if Froome could have concealed the extent of his injuries), and offered a ridiculous contract without any mitigating clauses whatsoever.

Presumably what he's actually doing is starting an attempt to humiliate Froome into retiring by waging a very public war of words - which is only necessary because of his own incompetence in the first place.

I read and agree with everything you wrote. There were some mountainous omissions. There was a conversation, not hypothetical, were Froome said, sure the " experts " are saying that I am done, it's over, but I am telling you to bet on me. No matter how many insiders say I am a long shot, only 2 people need to believe that they are wrong, you and me. Adams believed in Froome, put his money where his mouth is, placed an enormous, long shot bet on Froome that has not paid off. And some would say, another unintended consequence has been the entire team is unfocused. When you make this kind of budget bet there are not lots of plan B's laying around, available. Who do you put in the bus? Is there a relief pitcher if Froome's arm falls off? Quintana? Lopez? Someone else who feels roster restlessness? Julian Alaphilippe? Does his form give him TDF leadership status? Nah..he is right where he needs to be.
Peter Sagan couldn't win a grand tour..
what is on the market at Froome's price point that could get Adams what he wants.. to be a contender at the TDF? If you know of a rider,by all means, offer him up. There is a weird nuts and bolts part of the Froome discussion.. He is paid to produce, he is not. He is paid to produce, he is unable, and he has been extended a generous grace period. This is brutal, ugly part of being an expensive race horse, you either race or you retire. Nobody is asking Froome to get paid stud fees to my knowledge.. That's the other job of a retired race horse.. Def Leopard might be looking for a drummer..
The idea that Adams is being portrayed as some belly acher saying he thought he was getting a new car,didn't know about the extensive repairs and recalls.. Froome told people he could do the job.. Full stop.

 

[Savant12]

Given that Froome said that he was ready for the Tour, I expect a strong finish at the Czech Tour.

 

[tonymikejoe]

Given that Froome said that he was ready for the Tour, I expect a strong finish at the Czech Tour.

He will say there is no comparison because his best form comes in week 3 on the toughest stages - even though it doesn't.

 

[samhocking]

They were as delusional as Froome, history shows riders don't return to the previous form if they have such accidents, obvious example Beloki. Plus Froome was old too. Post injury his best showing was as at the Vuelta when he was still at Ineos and he's got worse with age since then. Can't blame him for taking the money but obviously he has tarnished his legacy in the short term but in long term he'll just be a remembered as a GC rider who won TDF 4 times etc.

Will Froome be gone at the end of the 2023 season ?

Beloki is from an era where, yes, those sorts of injuries were handled like a normal man on the street would receive, ie good-enough to walk to the office and do a 9-5, but not race a bike for 3 weeks. Today is totally different, just the way such injury is operated on and monitored is light years ahead of Beloki's day and there's a dedicated professional industry simply dealing with sports injury and therapy, Beloki had none of that, he had some pain killers, the local GP and a swanny and that was it probably.
My view is all the experts reported the injury wasn't a problem to fully recover from, Adams saw an opportunity to get Froome for less than his market value and Brailsford wasn't prepared to renew at the amount Adams was and so Froome went with Adams offer. In the two years that it did take Froome to get past all the recovery set backs from the plate etc, the sports science in Jumbo, UAE & Ineos has moved on quite a level compared to the Sky days and certainly compared to a team like ISN who are not in that level of professionalism whatsoever. We only need to look at riders in the top 5 at the time with Froome such as Landa, Pinot, Bardet, Uran etc to see the old guard are now top 20 or lower ranked GC riders now, not podium. We can also see with Bernal the process is long, certainly longer than 6 months claimed it would take Froome by the medical experts handling Froome's injuries.

 

[rallybanana]

Given that Froome said that he was ready for the Tour, I expect a strong finish at the Czech Tour.

Just 11 days to go. I can't wait for this silly little race in France to end.

 

[DaveJones2]

Beloki is from an era where, yes, those sorts of injuries were handled like a normal man on the street would receive, ie good-enough to walk to the office and do a 9-5, but not race a bike for 3 weeks. Today is totally different, just the way such injury is operated on and monitored is light years ahead of Beloki's day and there's a dedicated professional industry simply dealing with sports injury and therapy, Beloki had none of that, he had some pain killers, the local GP and a swanny and that was it probably.
My view is all the experts reported the injury wasn't a problem to fully recover from, Adams saw an opportunity to get Froome for less than his market value and Brailsford wasn't prepared to renew at the amount Adams was and so Froome went with Adams offer. In the two years that it did take Froome to get past all the recovery set backs from the plate etc, the sports science in Jumbo, UAE & Ineos has moved on quite a level compared to the Sky days and certainly compared to a team like ISN who are not in that level of professionalism whatsoever. We only need to look at riders in the top 5 at the time with Froome such as Landa, Pinot, Bardet, Uran etc to see the old guard are now top 20 or lower ranked GC riders now, not podium. We can also see with Bernal the process is long, certainly longer than 6 months claimed it would take Froome by the medical experts handling Froome's injuries.

I happen to work in an closely aligned field to Orthopaedics and you only have to see the state of someone's femur & surrounding musculature at the time of surgery for such an injury to know that recovery back to an elite, world beating level in the mid-30s is pretty unlikely. Of course the experts treating him, getting their names in the headlines and promoting their expertise are going to offer a best-case scenario, but there is absolutely no way any non-invested surgeon is going to advise gambling millions of € without seeing some genuine, hard evidence of a full recovery.

There is also no way Adams got his billionaire wealth outside of cycling by taking people at their word rather than using appropriate performance/target-related contracts.

Offering anything other than a short contract, or a lengthy contract with appropriate performance-related clauses (not sure if they exist in cycling) was a crazy gamble and has been proven as such. Froome's personal assurances of future performance outside of that context were as worthless as a handwritten note from his mother to say he was definitely going to be fit for the TDF. Adam's knows this, he's made a huge error and as such if he wants him off the team should pay off his contract and wash his hands of him in private rather than going down this route imo.

 

[samhocking]

I happen to work in an closely aligned field to Orthopaedics and you only have to see the state of someone's femur & surrounding musculature at the time of surgery for such an injury to know that recovery back to an elite, world beating level in the mid-30s is pretty unlikely. Of course the experts treating him, getting their names in the headlines and promoting their expertise are going to offer a best-case scenario, but there is absolutely no way any non-invested surgeon is going to advise gambling millions of € without seeing some genuine, hard evidence of a full recovery.

There is also no way Adams got his billionaire wealth outside of cycling by taking people at their word rather than using appropriate performance/target-related contracts.

Offering anything other than a short contract, or a lengthy contract with appropriate performance-related clauses (not sure if they exist in cycling) was a crazy gamble and has been proven as such. Froome's personal assurances of future performance outside of that context were as worthless as a handwritten note from his mother to say he was definitely going to be fit for the TDF. Adam's knows this, he's made a huge error and as such if he wants him off the team should pay off his contract and wash his hands of him in private rather than going down this route imo.

Well I'll respect those who actually trated him, in that they are already successful and i nthe field not aligned to it lol, so not sure there's a reason for them to make light of Froome's recovery prospects, they still work in that field so I'm sure having respect is more important than a few seconds and sentences said in the minority sport of pro cycling nobody is listening in on anyway other than a few cycling fans.

Brailsford wanted to keep Froome, but Adams made the better and longer renewal contract for him to be leader, Braislford saw the future more with Bernal. I'm sure in the line of business Adams is, he lost plenty of speculations too, he can only go by the medical exports and what they said as did Brailsford, in the ned Froome accepted the better offer, that is cycling, it doesn't always work out though, look at Quintana or Gadu. Complete teams behind them, but failing.

 

[saunaking]

Froome sweet talked Adams into a massive $$ deal and is gonna cash in as long as Adams cuts those cheques.

Riding around like a donkey for 3 years isn't going to have the slightest impact on his 'legacy'

He has his rock solid legacy for his fans and those that dont know anything and everyone else knows
the legacy is a clinic fueled transformation from donkey to GT winner

 

[movingtarget]

His next Tour might be the autobiography book Tour...............

 

[meat puppet]

His next Tour might be the autobiography book Tour...............

The title will be The Descent.

 

[StryderHells]

The title will be The Descent.

Or The Crash and Cash