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Chris Horner diagnosed with Blood clot

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davestoller said:
Really poor taste, to put this in the clinic, when the guy is really ill.
Maybe it's in poor taste, but maybe it's right. We don't know.

When Riccò had his kidney failure, to the Clinic it went, and subsequently proven correct. When Kirchen had his heart problems, to the Clinic it went, and as far as I know no clear doping links made.

Ultimately though, there SHOULD be a thread about Horner's health issues as it pertains to cycling news, which is the very thing this forum is about. And given Horner's character, recent performances and the nature of EPO and its effects, doping WOULD be discussed regardless, because it is something that is potentially involved (and this is a forum, so we love speculation).

Starting the thread in the Clinic just saves the mods the trouble of moving it.
 
May 3, 2010
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As was mentioned here in the light of the post-crash problems more questions should be asked about the decision of Hog and the RS management and medical staff in making Horner ride in after the accident.

Whether Horner's post-injury problems have been made worse by EPO use I think the question would be - how common is it for people not on a doping regime to suffer a blood clot at age 39 after suffering similar injuries?
 
Jun 20, 2010
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In the range of 1 in a hundred will suffer from venous thromboembolism after a broken leg.
 
May 26, 2009
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As earlier mentioned after the reoccurane of thev Embolisms i did a blog post with references :
http://www.parrabuddy.blogspot.com/Embolisms!Again?
Some links are click through and others "copy" and paste to get to the site for the info !
Several years ago there was huge controversy about the numbers of Long haul passengers keeling over and there were warnings to visit the Doctor before booking the flight , lately we have had one of the Williams sisters of tennis fame sidelined with P.Embolisms but i guess there is no Tennis Forum/clinic to pick over her life style activities prior to the hospitalisation !
 
Jun 20, 2010
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Abstract from the Lancet. The methodology seems sound:

"Lancet. 2003 Dec 20;362(9401):2039-44.
Frequency of venous thromboembolism in low to moderate risk long distance air travellers: the New Zealand Air Traveller's Thrombosis (NZATT) study.
Hughes RJ, Hopkins RJ, Hill S, Weatherall M, Van de Water N, Nowitz M, Milne D, Ayling J, Wilsher M, Beasley R.
Source
Green Lane Hospital, Auckland, New Zealand.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
The frequency and role of risk factors for venous thromboembolism related to air travel is uncertain. We aimed to establish the frequency of this disorder in a group of long distance air travellers and to investigate the role of potential risk factors.

METHODS:
We designed a prospective study into which we recruited individuals aged between 18 and 70 years, travelling for 4 h or more by aircraft. D-dimer measurement was done before and after travel. Participants with a negative D-dimer (<500 ng/L) before travel were included in the study. Those who became D-dimer positive or developed high clinical probability symptoms during the 3 months after travel were investigated with bilateral compression ultrasonography and CT pulmonary angiography. Suspected clinical and thrombophilic risk factors, and use of prophylactic measures, were assessed.

FINDINGS:
1000 individuals were recruited, with 878 meeting inclusion criteria and completing the study. All participants travelled at least 10 h, with a mean total duration of air travel of 39 h (SD 12.5). 112 patients underwent radiological assessment on return. Frequency of venous thromboembolism associated with travel was 1.0% (9/878, 95% CI 0.5-1.9), which included four cases of pulmonary embolism and five of deep venous thrombosis. Six patients with venous thromboembolism had pre-existing clinical risk factors, two had a recognised thrombophilic risk factor, two travelled exclusively in business class, five used aspirin, and four wore compression stockings.

INTERPRETATION:
Our results suggest an association between multiple long distance air flights and venous thromboembolism, even in individuals at low to moderate risk. The role of traditional risk factors and prophylactic measures in air travel-related venous thromboembolism needs further investigation."
 
May 13, 2009
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His injuries, the flight and EPO could all be the cause of the pulmonary embolism. There's no way of knowing which it is when more than one factor is present. To make matters worse, different risk factors often amplify each other.

Since one of the contributors could be EPO, it should be discussed in the clinic. The 7W/kg figure is worrisome as is the history of Horner's DS and former and current team members. As Ullrich said: add 1+1
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
krebs303 said:
The most serious complication of a DVT is that the clot could dislodge and travel to the lungs, which is called a pulmonary embolism (PE)

I did a paper on Deep Vein Thrombosis in school. It seems to effect Triathletes a lo as I remember. very serious condition
Generally, certainly in uk hospitals if you are going to be in the hospital bed more than one night they insist on you wearing those silly tight socks that stop that from happening.

But yes, DVT from prolonged sitting, laying in one position can lead to clots getting free and heading for the lung/heart but not so much from injuries.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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Mrs John Murphy said:
As was mentioned here in the light of the post-crash problems more questions should be asked about the decision of Hog and the RS management and medical staff in making Horner ride in after the accident.

Whether Horner's post-injury problems have been made worse by EPO use I think the question would be - how common is it for people not on a doping regime to suffer a blood clot at age 39 after suffering similar injuries?
I sprained my ankle playing indoor cricket. it swelled up and i developed a DVT in my calf muscle. I was aged 26. the talk from the doctors when they discovered it was quite scarey. there was a real risk of the clot going into my lung and killing me. I was not on EPO nor have i ever been.

I was on Warfarin for 3 months. During that time i had to be very careful with getting cut. If i cut myself shaving it would bleed for about 15 minutes. I had to change my routine as some activities carried too much risk while on this drug. It might be that Chris will not be able to ride on the open road while on this drug. If he was to fall off he'd probably bleed out.
 
Jun 1, 2011
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Havetts said:
Chris Horner has been diagnosed with a blood clot in his lungs.



Source: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/horner-diagnosed-with-blood-clot


So, I doubt I'm the only one who thinks that this might have something to do with doping?
"Objection, speculative!"
"Sustained"

As to his performance in May as being suspicious…Then by that logic, so would a GC victory by any pro with a long standing winning career. In all honesty, the Basque Country is probably a harder race than the Cali.

"Objection, speculative!"
"Sustained"

As to those who think his performance in May as being suspicious…Then by that logic, so would a GC victory by any pro with a long standing winning career. In all honesty, the Basque Country is probably a harder race than the Cali.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Horner

As is pointed out, he's won just about every major race in the U.S. So why would the Cali be surprise?

Anyone who has a 20th in the Vuelta, a 15th and a 10th in the TdF while in support of other riders should be very capable of winning if they get the nod to be the team GC rider.

Horner was over looked and had to race from 2000-2004 in the states and was at the top of the board every year.

I think I'll start a Tommy D thread. At 33 and 9th in his first Tour? Wow!

I have to say that this is all bunch of BS until proven otherwise by hard facts.
 
BillytheKid said:
"Objection, speculative!"
"Sustained"

As to his performance in May as being suspicious…Then by that logic, so would a GC victory by any pro with a long standing winning career. In all honesty, the Basque Country is probably a harder race than the Cali.

"Objection, speculative!"
"Sustained"

As to those who think his performance in May as being suspicious…Then by that logic, so would a GC victory by any pro with a long standing winning career. In all honesty, the Basque Country is probably a harder race than the Cali.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Horner

As is pointed out, he's won just about every major race in the U.S. So why would the Cali be surprise?

Anyone who has a 20th in the Vuelta, a 15th and a 10th in the TdF while in support of other riders should be very capable of winning if they get the nod to be the team GC rider.

Horner was over looked and had to race from 2000-2004 in the states and was at the top of the board every year.

I think I'll start a Tommy D thread. At 33 and 9th in his first Tour? Wow!

I have to say that this is all bunch of BS until proven otherwise by hard facts.
It wasnt the fact that he won California, it was the fact that he and Leipheimer were putting out way more power than the top riders at the Tour that raised suspicion. Indeed they were above the level of Armstrong in his heyday. Plus Horner is doing this now at almost 40 years of age. Have a look through the power estimates thread for the evidence.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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BillytheKid said:
As is pointed out, he's won just about every major race in the U.S. So why would the Cali be surprise?
maybe because at nearly 40 years old, he put out more W/kg up Sierra Road than Contador or Armstrong did (over similar durations) in their prime?
 
Jun 1, 2011
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131313 said:
maybe because at nearly 40 years old, he put out more W/kg up Sierra Road than Contador or Armstrong did (over similar durations) in their prime?
Those caparisons are not valid, given that riders will peak at different times for different races and that this was the first year the finish was at the top. The climb itself coming early or mid-stage total changes the commitment (W/kg) a rider is willing to put out. What's the incentive if you know your going to get caught on the downside? Cut the BS. You data is no where near scientific because the conditions in this case are quite different.
 
BillytheKid said:
Those caparisons are not valid, given that riders will peak at different times for different races and that this was the first year the finish was at the top. The climb itself coming early or mid-stage total changes the commitment (W/kg) a rider is willing to put out. What's the incentive if you know your going to get caught on the downside? Cut the BS. You data is no where near scientific because the conditions in this case are quite different.

Holy crap that is some rubbish, what you are saying is that Horner/Levi were in better shape for California than Lance or Contador ever were for the Tour. We are talking about similar climbs finishing at the top. For example Sierra road V Alpe d'Hez or Plateau de Beille.
 
Jun 1, 2011
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pmcg76 said:
Holy crap that is some rubbish, what you are saying is that Horner/Levi were in better shape for California than Lance or Contador ever were for the Tour. We are talking about similar climbs finishing at the top. For example Sierra road V Alpe d'Hez or Plateau de Beille.
Sierra road is only a 5K climb? Holy Crap!
 
Jun 1, 2011
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For example Sierra road V Alpe d'Hez or Plateau de Beille.

THE DURATION OF (length) THE CLIMB HAS A DIRECT EFFECT ON THE FINAL W/kg NUMBER.

Sierra road is about a third the length of L'Alpe for example.
 
Mar 15, 2009
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joe_papp said:
In 2003 when I crashed and broke my knee, I developed three blood clots in my lower legs during a 3-week hospital stay, and had been using EPO prior to the crash.
blood thinners, hematoma, innocuous crash?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/joe-papp/ignominious-end
Ignominious indeed.

Brilliant. I had blood clots and used EPO. So everyone that has blood clots, uses EPO.
reminds me of college philosophy:
cue to 2:40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

JP: You broke your knee. You had surgery. You were immobilized. That is one of the most common cause of all blood clots--surgery after trauma to the lower extremity. Did the use of EPO help matters? Of course not, but if your hematocrit was 50-55%, might well have made things worse.? DO you have the pre-op lab values to share with us? Did they tell you what it was? Unlikely Horner's hematocrit was over 45 with the biological passport. One way or the other.

What about Mikey Friedman? Meatball had a P.E.
and Leiden V factor mutation if I recall correctly...
Irony alert--he was treated at UPMC--your old team sponsor.

from velonews:
American racer Michael Friedman (Kelly Benefit Strategies-OptumHealth) suffered a similar ailment in 2006 and said Monday that it is a scary time for Horner, but that a return to racing should be possible. Friedman reached out to Horner’s fiancée Megan Elliot and said he had been in frequent contact throughout the morning.

“I told her everything’s going to be OK, but it’s a stressful and scary situation,” Friedman told VeloNews. “He’s really quite lucky. When a clot moves, there are three places it can go: the heart — bad, the brain — bad, the lung — not as bad.”

Friedman suffered a pulmonary embolism in 2006 following surgery to treat a saddle sore. Like Horner, Friedman’s clot came on suddenly.

“You can’t imagine what it feels like. For me it was like having a knife stuck in my chest and turned, all the way to my back,” said Friedman. “I couldn’t breathe. I thought I was having a heart attack. I couldn’t feel my left arm and had this piercing chest pain.”

In Pittsburgh after a cross-country drive, Friedman was three minutes from the university hospital and went immediately. He said four factors likely worked to produce the clot: the surgery, the drive, dehydration and a previously undiagnosed clotting disorder. Horner was largely on a schedule of rest and recuperation after returning to Bend following a stage 9 crash that ended his Tour de France last month. He had just begun training again over the weekend. Friedman suggested that the clot could be a result of Horner’s crash.
 
Jan 27, 2011
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First of all this thread wasnt been created to have a go at Chris Horner personally, it would be of very bad taste to wish him bad luck and/or harm. I hope Chris recovers well from his blood clot and gets back to racing soon. The same thing happened when Serena / Venus (not sure which of the two sisters) had a blood clot there was a thread opened in the Clinic aswell.

However I created this thread because its known that EPO use thickens the blood when the hematocrit rises and seeing Horner has done some very suspicious things in this season while at the age of 39 years old.

So I kind of hoped this thread wouldve run kinda the way it has now, that it would discuss it could be "natural" causes that created the blood clot or on the other hand the use of EPO.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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You are in and out.Cool that you don't wish him ill, EPO has lots of bad side effects for prolonged periods when it's misused.

What suspect behavior has Horner had? God help you and any American cycling fan that says the TOC is a premier cycling event.lol. He had a couple results otherwise. If falling on the deck is suspicious than yes an investigation should be launched asap. what do you see Watson?
 
Jan 27, 2011
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fatandfast said:
What suspect behavior has Horner had? God help you and any American cycling fan that says the TOC is a premier cycling event.lol. He had a couple results otherwise. If falling on the deck is suspicious than yes an investigation should be launched asap. what do you see Watson?
ToC is a big cycling event, just not as big as some people like to make out, 4th gt comments stick out.

Yes in the ToC Horner reached a 6,7 w/kg, which is quite disturbing in my eyes eventhough the climb to Sierra Road wasnt as long as a hors categorie Alpe climb is. Assuming Horner didn't fully peak for the ToC he wouldve been devastating in this years Tour de France if he could reach an even higher level than in the ToC.

Also it isnt really working in Horner's favor that he is on the Hog's team either, reasons I assume are known :).
 
Jul 23, 2009
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BillytheKid said:
"Objection, speculative!"
"Sustained"
...

I have to say that this is all bunch of BS until proven otherwise by hard facts.
Cool act Billy, but you do realize that you are visiting a discussion forum and not a court of law? People don't come here to convict or acquit, they come here to discuss. And that involves speculation (aka BS) in the absence of "hard facts". And I don't care what time of year it was, how hard the competition was trying, or if Sierra Rd is only 5 km long - I still find Horner's incredible performance suspicious. Speculative indeed.
 

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