Chris Horner saved RS at the Tour.

[FitSsikS]

Chris Horner saved RS at the Tour.

Dern it. I read that as, "Chris Horner saved ar$e at the tour."

Thought this thread was about some new chamois treatment.

 

[BillytheKid]

Just like everything Horner does makes him the biggest sports personality in the peloton according to you..

Admitted. I'm not a fan of the team. And why would anyone be? Exellent riders have been forced into this practical joke and ends up praising a team-GC victory that is no more worth than a top 10-15 in the riders GC.

Wrong. He's just remindes me of my former teammates. His race accounts are POV, but their frankness, worts and all, trump the mind-numbing commentary we have to endure. I give him good press because he get's robbed of otherwise. NBC showcased Garmin over and over. Horner's misfortune last year dissapeared after a day or two. Horner was mentioned in-passing on the daily broadcast and grouped with the massive fail of Leipheimer.

Because he gets thumbed and is the classic outsider, or underdog, and represents an independent attitude, I guess I admire that in him.

Alms for the poor.

 

[BillytheKid]

How on earth does that rant derive from what I said? The discussion up to that point had been mainly about the scoring of the team classification, and that's what I provided data for. The tack stage was essentially irrelevant to the team's classification: there were 6 RNT riders, and 6 from Sky, in the "wait for Evans" group. Where did I comment on team spirit in the RNT squad? And what you suspect might have happened if a flat time trial had been a mountainous road stage is irrelevant beyond words.

I said that he would have made a contribution to the team's performance, I said that he contributed to the team and justified his inclusion. In what way have I been a detractor?

It derives because data freaks like you dismiss elements of racing that are not scored. Like best-placed bottle fetcher.
Where's this thread's title sponsor? Horner did well, I am a fan. He did not save the T-GC for RSNT, but only played a roll.

His accent I would say is generally western rural mixed with southern Cal. It is about as ugly as Cav's, which is not really ugly, but thick as opposed to the "twine" in Horner's. Accents never bother me, I don't mind them at all. What's ugly are people who judge by them.

At least it's not a "whine" like Farrar's.

 

[hrotha]

RSNT could realistically only aspire to three things in this Tour, especially with Fränk out of shape/not giving a damn/taking banned substances: a stage win + yellow jersey with Canc, the team classification and a top 10 by any of their candidates (Zubeldia). They accomplished all of these things, so failing at one of them wouldn't have turned their Tour into a disaster.

The ones who saved their Tour were primarily Cancellara and Zubeldia, with virtually everyone else contributing to the team GC at some point. Singling Horner out is myopic.

 

[B_Ugli]

Does anyone know why Horner tagged on Hincapies wheel on when the peleton arrived on the Champs Elysees?

 

[Opalius]

RSNT could realistically only aspire to three things in this Tour, a stage win + yellow jersey with Canc, the team classification and a top 10 by any of their candidates (Zubeldia).

To be honest with what they are paying their riders in respect to many other teams they could have tried for more stage victories/attacks.

Voigt was a one man army. The rest just fended pathetically for themselves, never mind helping each other.

 

[hrotha]

To be honest with what they are paying their riders in respect to many other teams they could have tried for more stage victories/attacks.

Voigt was a one man army. The rest just fended pathetically for themselves, never mind helping each other.

I completely agree.

That's also why the notion that they were riding as a proper team is ridiculous. No one (with some very sporadic exceptions) was willing to risk his own chances for the greater good. There was no greater good, period.

 

[BillytheKid]

I completely agree.

That's also why the notion that they were riding as a proper team is ridiculous. No one (with some very sporadic exceptions) was willing to risk his own chances for the greater good. There was no greater good, period.

Ok last post for me here: One of the reasons I posted Horner's Diaries is you get insight into watch the TV will always miss. Granted the camera's can't be everywhere at once and focus on the top ten more, but we often miss the first part of longer mountain stages.

I just quickly grab this one and you will hear Horner say that Sky was not letting him or others in the breaks... at the end of the interview... he's talking about the mountain stages

http://bcove.me/70xm022e

The missing action is the first part of a race. So to state that no one else from RSNT attack is not true. Sky, I think would have gladly taken the Team Prize as well as they never let the Horner or others up the road with exception of stage 11.

As Horner state's here, really after the final ITT, he's really 18-20 minutes back. He called it true, finishing at 19:55.

Sky wanted team GC as well and why not?

More replayed early action, if the coverage is up, would be great instead of all the scenics and castles, etc.., but that stuff sells to a wider audience so the faithful have to endure.

 

[movingtarget]

Wrong. He's just remindes me of my former teammates. His race accounts are POV, but their frankness, worts and all, trump the mind-numbing commentary we have to endure. I give him good press because he get's robbed of otherwise. NBC showcased Garmin over and over. Horner's misfortune last year dissapeared after a day or two. Horner was mentioned in-passing on the daily broadcast and grouped with the massive fail of Leipheimer.

Because he gets thumbed and is the classic outsider, or underdog, and represents an independent attitude, I guess I admire that in him.

Alms for the poor.

Well said. I like Horner and always have. I remember that Evans was pretty upset when Lotto did not resign him. Like Hincapie he just loves to compete and he is always honest and interesting in his interviews.

 

[El Pistolero]

Here was I thinking Fabian Cancellara saved the Tour for RS with a prologue win and 7(?) days in yellow.

 

[Kender]

Does anyone know why Horner tagged on Hincapies wheel on when the peleton arrived on the Champs Elysees?

it looked like he thought big George was trying to form a breakaway. so probably it was just ignorance. It was plainly obvious to every other rider what was going down

 

[DominicDecoco]

Here was I thinking Fabian Cancellara saved the Tour for RS with a prologue win and 7(?) days in yellow.

No, no. According to BillytheKid, Fabian let his whole team down when he left the race to be with his wife when she was giving birth to his child. What a dic* Fabian is, huh!?

 

[BillytheKid]

No, no. According to BillytheKid, Fabian let his whole team down when he left the race to be with his wife when she was giving birth to his child. What a dic* he is, huh!?

You like to put words in my mouth. I was dissapointed, not in the birth of his child, but in terms of the race. We all know what an asset Cancellara is, but, yes I was skeptical, dissapointed for the team, but the birth of a child would take anyone away and was his first place to be. It is you that call him the name.

I am sick of your attempts to make all of this personal.

 

[cineteq]

His accent I would say is generally western rural mixed with southern Cal.

At least it's not a "whine" like Farrar's.

That's why he's called Redneck?
Btw, right on Farrar's description of his accent LOL

 

[Cookster15]

Evans was pretty upset when Lotto did not resign him

Evans must have been even more upset when Horner miraculously transformed into the 'second best climber in the world' at Astana / Radioshack. As I recall in 2007 Horner could barely stay with Cadel in the mountains let alone provide any meaningful support. On the TDF climbs he was always on Cadel's wheel barely hanging on. Only use was if Cadel had a mechanical he could jump on Horner's bike.

 

[BillytheKid]

Evans must have been even more upset when Horner miraculously transformed into the 'second best climber in the world' at Astana / Radioshack. As I recall in 2007 Horner could barely stay with Cadel in the mountains let alone provide any meaningful support. On the TDF climbs he was always on Cadel's wheel barely hanging on. Only use was if Cadel had a mechanical he could jump on Horner's bike.

Horner won climbing stages in the Tour of the Suisse in 2005 and the Tour of Romandie in 2006. To say that he suddenly arrived as a climber is misinformed. 2005 was his first season back in Europe. Of course, Cadel now has a legion of climbers supporting him. I don't know maybe he's hard to please.

 

[Cookster15]

Actually that is not what I meant. I know Chris could climb in his Lotto days but there is a big difference between good climber (2007 Lotto) and 2nd best climber in the world (I think he said that at Astana?). The fact he was already 35 when he left Lotto is what really raised my eyebrows. Better leave it here as I know this is better left to the 'other' forum.

 

[roundabout]

Heh, heh, heh. You guys probably don't remember Horner back in his FdJ days. Or even Mercury. I recall Horner being a bit uncertain how well he would go on Genting Highlands in 2000.

Quite a difference to today's Horner both in climbing and in talking himself up.

 

[BillytheKid]

Heh, heh, heh. You guys probably don't remember Horner back in his FdJ days. Or even Mercury. I recall Horner being a bit uncertain how well he would go on Genting Highlands in 2000.

Quite a difference to today's Horner both in climbing and in talking himself up.

And look how Wiggins has improve in that department as well.

Horner has dropped weight, which works. It work for me on my level. Anyone that has done it and gone on to any multi-mountain pass adventure knows it. The really hard part is going to bed hungry feeling like you could have another dinner.

 

[movingtarget]

Horner won climbing stages in the Tour of the Suisse in 2005 and the Tour of Romandie in 2006. To say that he suddenly arrived as a climber is misinformed. 2005 was his first season back in Europe. Of course, Cadel now has a legion of climbers supporting him. I don't know maybe he's hard to please.

What legion of climbers ? Moinard ? TJVG is not always consistent on climbs even though he had a great Tour. Tschop was the guy that should have been in the Tour team for BMC instead of challenging for a top 10 in the Giro. Not that it would have made a difference this year. BMC went for a similar team to last year, strong on the flat and the intermediate stages. Apart from TJVG, Moinard was sighted once with Evans on a mountain stage and did do well on that one but none of them are quality climbers apart from Evans and TJVG.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Horner won climbing stages in the Tour of the Suisse in 2005 and the Tour of Romandie in 2006. To say that he suddenly arrived as a climber is misinformed. 2005 was his first season back in Europe. Of course, Cadel now has a legion of climbers supporting him. I don't know maybe he's hard to please.

I remember watching that ToS win on tv, for Saunier Duval.
Rather than dropping the bunch, he won from the breakaway, albeit quite impressively and ended up 5th or 6th on the GC?
Best season of form he showed, up until his Pais Vasco, "beetroot juice" success.

 

[BillytheKid]

What legion of climbers ? Moinard ? TJVG is not always consistent on climbs even though he had a great Tour. Tschop was the guy that should have been in the Tour team for BMC instead of challenging for a top 10 in the Giro. Not that it would have made a difference this year. BMC went for a similar team to last year, strong on the flat and the intermediate stages. Apart from TJVG, Moinard was sighted once with Evans on a mountain stage and did do well on that one but none of them are quality climbers apart from Evans and TJVG.

You missed my sarcasm.

 

[BillytheKid]

I remember watching that ToS win on tv, for Saunier Duval.
Rather than dropping the bunch, he won from the breakaway, albeit quite impressively and ended up 5th or 6th on the GC?
Best season of form he showed, up until his Pais Vasco, "beetroot juice" success.

Horner has raced almost always in support and he's not not the first climber to do so. Pros in that role will have fewer victories. I hope he's still doing the Tour of Utah. The overall profile suits him. Pais Vasco-ish.

 

[movingtarget]

You missed my sarcasm.

Have a habit of doing that lately which is strange as I am sarcastic myself when I get the opportunity. Dear god I might be becoming an idealist !

 

[BillytheKid]

Heh, heh, heh. You guys probably don't remember Horner back in his FdJ days. Or even Mercury. I recall Horner being a bit uncertain how well he would go on Genting Highlands in 2000.

Quite a difference to today's Horner both in climbing and in talking himself up.

I remember Honrer first rode the Tour in 2005. He did OK in the mountains, but lost the front group about the same time as a bouncy, junior looking Liberty Seguros rider named Alberto Contador. 2005 was his first season back from four years racing and domenating the US Road Racing Calendar which is to say a much lesser arena of the sport, but having won three year running makes him the winningest US cyclists in that regard. The fact that he has improved his climbing skills is no surprise as just racing in GTs and Europe would lean anyone out.

Horner self-promoting is sometimes amusing, but perhaps justified in the US program has completely ignored him and until this year, he's never been one of their own although he got some aid from Bobby J this year in the press.
Obiviously, he can still hang with the best climbers, dispite his domestique duties, but generally lacked the final gear to follow the final accelerations on the last two mountain stages on this years TDF.

I hope the Worlds' course would offer something more than the Olympic course in the way of climbing, but I have not really looked at it. Lombardy might be his last chance this year of a win, but mostly likely a top ten. The fact that he's racing through to the end of the year says tells me he's still looking at bringing good form to the early season and Pais Vasco next year.

For the very reason you deride Horner, I would admire his ability to improve and not is suddend dramatic fashion. The 2000 season is meaningless.