Chris Horner saved RS at the Tour.

Jun 15, 2010
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Last minute change of Chris Horner won the team competition at the TdF for Radio Shack.

RS
HZ - 0:15:41
AK - 0:17:54
CH - 0:19:55

Sky
BW - 0:00:00 (87:34:47)
CF - 0:03:21
MR - 0:54:52
 
Mar 4, 2010
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teams time is not based on the top 3 on GC. it's based on the top 3 riders on each stage

so break stays away with a RS rider that is 40 mins down on GC and finishes 13 minutes ahead of the peloton that has minimum 3 Sky and 2 RS in it. RS gains 13 mins in the teams comp even if the rider in the break was their 5th placed rider

however, CH would certainly have contributed to the 3 riders per stage stat, just not in the way you are thinking
 
Jun 1, 2011
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Kender said:
teams time is not based on the top 3 on GC. it's based on the top 3 riders on each stage

so break stays away with a RS rider that is 40 mins down on GC and finishes 13 minutes ahead of the peloton that has minimum 3 Sky and 2 RS in it. RS gains 13 mins in the teams comp even if the rider in the break was their 5th placed rider

however, CH would certainly have contributed to the 3 riders per stage stat, just not in the way you are thinking
Yes indeed. Check the results from stage 8 forward and you can see they were always place three riders well on the mountain stages. Fabian saved them in the first ITT. They lost some 8 minutes of a 14 minute lead in the last ITT.
 
Let's check:
Prologue, Stages 1-15 and 18-20, Horner not in top 3 RNT riders, or in top 3 but same time as RNT's 4th man.

Stage 16: Horner 3rd RNT man @ 8:07, Monfort 4th @ 10:54, so 2:47 saved.
Stage 17, Horner 1st RNT man @ 1:02, Zubldia 4th @ 3:17, so 2:15 saved.

So total contribution to team rankings is 5:02; RNT's winning margin was 5:46, so strictly speaking, he didn't. Whether his assistance to the team was worth enough seconds to the rest of the team to have made the difference is a matter of conjecture. He certainly justified his inclusion.
 
Jun 1, 2011
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Armchair cyclist said:
Let's check:
Prologue, Stages 1-15 and 18-20, Horner not in top 3 RNT riders, or in top 3 but same time as RNT's 4th man.

Stage 16: Horner 3rd RNT man @ 8:07, Monfort 4th @ 10:54, so 2:47 saved.
Stage 17, Horner 1st RHT man @ 1:02, Zubldia 4th @ 3:17, so 2:15 saved.

So total contribution to team rankings is 5:02; RNT's winning margin was 5:46, so strictly speaking, he didn't. Whether his assistance to the team was worth enough seconds to the rest of the team to have made the difference if a matter of conjecture. He certainly justified his inclusion.
So Horner pulling Zubeldia and Schleck up to the Sky boys on Stage 8 does not count. He gave his wheel up to Zubeldia on the "tack" stage and had to chase almost all the way to the finish... not to mention a blown derailleur on the Colombier, delayed bike change, and a chase and a catch on that stage.

Stats only count so much. They all put in for the team GC. To say they have no team spirit is not true. Perhaps they had the best. Zubeldia would have gotten aid if the final ITT was a hill climb. The final mountain stage was key to RSNT consolidating the team podium. Next time the detractors here can sit in the team bus and direct.
 
Jun 1, 2011
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movingtarget said:
Fuglsang would not have finished higher on GC than Zubeldia I don't think but he definitely deserved a place in the team. Horner is a great team player and always has been.
Sure enough.

 
BillytheKid said:
So Horner pulling Zubeldia and Schleck up to the Sky boys on Stage 8 does not count. He gave his wheel up to Zubeldia on the "tack" stage and had to chase almost all the way to the finish... not to mention a blown derailleur on the Colombier, delayed bike change, and a chase and a catch on that stage.

Stats only count so much. They all put in for the team GC. To say they have no team spirit is not true. Perhaps they had the best. Zubeldia would have gotten aid if the final ITT was a hill climb. The final mountain stage was key to RSNT consolidating the team podium. Next time the detractors here can sit in the team bus and direct.
No denigration of Horner intended. The discussion up to that point had been mainly about the scoring of the team classification, and that's what I provided data for. The tack stage was essentially irrelevant to the team's classification: there were 6 RNT riders, and 6 from Sky, in the "wait for Evans" group. I would not presume to comment on team spirit in the RNT squad.
 
Feb 17, 2012
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BillytheKid said:
Your MO is well known. What ever they achieve, you simply would attack it.:confused:
Just like everything Horner does makes him the biggest sports personality in the peloton according to you..

Admitted. I'm not a fan of the team. And why would anyone be? Exellent riders have been forced into this practical joke and ends up praising a team-GC victory that is no more worth than a top 10-15 in the riders GC.
 
May 5, 2009
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To be honest, although I respect Zubeldia's placing and a liked the guy, but to call this that it saved RSN's Tour is a joke. Even the win in the team classification is something minor. The only thing that saved RSN's Tour was Fabian's prologue win and his subsequent days in yellow.

But from a cycling fan's perspective, it seemed they had a great spirit and Jensie was just legendary, trying to put the icing on the cake on the Champs-Elysées.

Definitely, Horner did a great job, but considering he replaced AS, I cannot see that AS would have placed worse than Horner. (provided my assumption/rememberings are correct). I sincerely hope that Horner adds another season. I believe he could still be in for a Top 10 or even Top 5 placement in the Tour if everything goes well and provided he is in a team where his captain or co-captain.

Fuglsang was never a topic anyway for some particular reasons we are all aware of. Also, I have never seen Fuglsang without a weak day during three weeks.
 
Feb 15, 2011
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la.margna said:
I believe he [Horner] could still be in for a Top 10 or even Top 5 placement in the Tour if everything goes well and provided he is in a team where his captain or co-captain.
Yes, if even more riders crash out than this year...

EDIT: that was awfully close to trolling... whoops.
 
May 5, 2009
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gustienordic said:
Yes, if even more riders crash out than this year...

EDIT: that was awfully close to trolling... whoops.
I forgive you, because you're from Minnesota. As a kid, back in 1981, the hockey team University of Minnesota played in the Spengler Cup here in Switzerland and fighted against the pro's in incredibly manner. Many plus points for Minnesota. Btw, where is Horner from? He has a really ugly accent...
 
Apr 17, 2009
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la.margna said:
I forgive you, because you're from Minnesota. As a kid, back in 1981, the hockey team University of Minnesota played in the Spengler Cup here in Switzerland and fighted against the pro's in incredibly manner. Many plus points for Minnesota. Btw, where is Horner from? He has a really ugly accent...
Raised in San Diego, California, now lives in Bend, Oregon.
 
Jul 21, 2010
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BillytheKid said:
What ever they achieve...
On paper they had one of the strongest, if not the strongest, teams. What they got out of it was pathetic (post-spartacus that is).

There was seemingly no team spirit. No one cared to help Zubeldia in the high mountains (but Schleck, wtf?). Nevermind they have the money. I think this is one of the few teams promising or talented riders do definitely not want to ride for. And that's clinic discussion far a side.
 
So, If Chris Horner saved RSNT's Tour, what was Cancellara's first week all about?
Personally, I'd put winning the prologue and wearing the yellow jersey for a week, above filling in a slot on the team classment.:rolleyes:
 
DominicDecoco said:
Winning the team competition saves the Tour for RSNT?

Okay, then...
soOpOSMthanks! said:
Team GC? Get over it.
Mellow Velo said:
So, If Chris Horner saved RSNT's Tour, what was Cancellara's first week all about?
Personally, I'd put winning the prologue and wearing the yellow jersey for a week, above filling in a slot on the team classment.:rolleyes:
These posts are all correct. Team GC only started to matter in anglophone media on the Verbier in 2009.

As for Horner's helping RSNT, I'd put him fourth behind Spartacus, Zubeldia, and Jens.
 
Feb 15, 2011
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la.margna said:
I forgive you, because you're from Minnesota. As a kid, back in 1981, the hockey team University of Minnesota played in the Spengler Cup here in Switzerland and fighted against the pro's in incredibly manner. Many plus points for Minnesota. Btw, where is Horner from? He has a really ugly accent...
This post is awesome.
 
la.margna said:
To be honest, although I respect Zubeldia's placing and a liked the guy, but to call this that it saved RSN's Tour is a joke. Even the win in the team classification is something minor. The only thing that saved RSN's Tour was Fabian's prologue win and his subsequent days in yellow.

But from a cycling fan's perspective, it seemed they had a great spirit and Jensie was just legendary, trying to put the icing on the cake on the Champs-Elysées.

Definitely, Horner did a great job, but considering he replaced AS, I cannot see that AS would have placed worse than Horner. (provided my assumption/rememberings are correct). I sincerely hope that Horner adds another season. I believe he could still be in for a Top 10 or even Top 5 placement in the Tour if everything goes well and provided he is in a team where his captain or co-captain.

Fuglsang was never a topic anyway for some particular reasons we are all aware of. Also, I have never seen Fuglsang without a weak day during three weeks.
Okay saved might be a bit strong. Let's just say that it made RS Tour less worse with Zubeldia finishing where he did but what were they going to achieve anyway ? Schleck said before the start that he would not be good. Apart from Cancellara's exploits re TT and Yellow jersey, the Team prize is all they could have really hoped for. I was still surprised by Zubeldia's performance but I am never surprised by Horner. Still one of the best domestiques around and still managing to finish well up on GC. Fuglsang should have been in the team but top 10 would have been pushing it I think. Not sure why some people keep rating Kloeden. He is yesterday's news.
 
Jun 1, 2011
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Opalius said:
On paper they had one of the strongest, if not the strongest, teams. What they got out of it was pathetic (post-spartacus that is).

There was seemingly no team spirit. No one cared to help Zubeldia in the high mountains (but Schleck, wtf?). Nevermind they have the money. I think this is one of the few teams promising or talented riders do definitely not want to ride for. And that's clinic discussion far a side.
The team never really had a true GC contender. Regardless of Fränk Schleck, Cancellara in the end was the only top ITT man. Klöden failed as a GC threat. Cancellara takes yellow in the prologue, Sagan took one road stage from him.

Radio Shack Nissan Trek had the best climbing team in terms of number of good climbers, but could not win a climbing stage. I was impress with Horner's work linking Zubeldia and Schleck up to Wiggins, Cadel, Froome etc on the final climb of Stage 8. Horner was better than Zubeldia, but his failing TT skills left him in a roll of domestique and work duties (giving up a wheel on tack-gate and chasing to the final Ks).

Sky's focus on the Wiggins' GC left them out winning the team competition. RSNT and Sky where the only teams really perhaps interested in it as Sky took back eight minutes of 14 from RSNT in the final ITT with RSNT not having Fabian.

The Team Competition is the lesser rung, but if Sky had won it along with the GC, then I am sure its standing would have been elevated in the eyes of the detractors here. Life is subjective.
 
Aug 29, 2010
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BillytheKid said:
The Team Competition is the lesser rung, but if Sky had won it along with the GC, then I am sure its standing would have been elevated in the eyes of the detractors here. Life is subjective.
The team competition is only a joke because only one team cared about it. The only teams with realistic chances of actually contesting it are normally those which have very good chances of the overall, and that always takes priority. Liquigas and BMC might've been able to keep a 3rd rider up there on each stage, Sky certainly could of, but I can't see any other team realistically challenging and Liq/BMC/Sky just wanted to win the overall. So RSNT with their team of nothing but great domestiques without a genuine leader had no competition.

If there's no competition, the prize isn't highly thought of - Wiggins is not considered a very worthy winner by many because he didn't have to beat anyone - he was simply better. It's sad, but that's the reality.
 
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