Circ

Page 10 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
1
0
mrhender said:
Vayer tweeting again




If he's talking of Ben Gastauer then we have ourselves a luxembourgian on our hands..
Wonder if Schlecks got invites...
that gastauer reference, doubt it had anything to do with Circ.
 
skippythepinhead said:
Legitimacy is so subjective. I can think of a ton of reasons, from convenience to libel/slander and much between and beside.

I guess the question is, "How do you think you'll judge whether a redaction is legitimate?"

Personally, while I love having all the names named, if there is nothing to be gained by including hearsay on a potential minor player in the grand scheme, I'll sacrifice small fry for a complete narrative. If the narrative becomes diluted or compromised by oversensitive redactions, argument over the legitimacy of the entire report will in actuality render the entire exercise illegitimate. I think there should be a great deal of effort put into avoiding arguments like with FIFA. Or, that could be the end desire--to bog the whole thing down so in the end we're cycling on rollers...

Popcorn ready to pour into popper.
Thanks for all that.!i guess I'm left with the impression that the UCI is still pulling all the strings and has all the power here. Just don't trust them whatsoever.
 
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
1
0
mrhender said:
Ahh.. Okay thanks..

The eye sees what it...... ;)
:D

red_flanders said:
Thanks for all that.!i guess I'm left with the impression that the UCI is still pulling all the strings and has all the power here. Just don't trust them whatsoever.
correct. **** Marty is a Swiss politician and has a lot of experience with writing reports that have to keep all parties happy.
In this case, Cookson has to be happy. That means the report will not present any information that could put into question the integrity of the current UCI or the cleanliness of Team Sky.

There might be some dirt on Saxo, Astana or Katusha, but nothing that Cookson can't handle.
 
Jul 11, 2013
3,340
0
0
red_flanders said:
Thanks for all that.!i guess I'm left with the impression that the UCI is still pulling all the strings and has all the power here. Just don't trust them whatsoever.
Trust has to be earned.. The UCI is the historical equivalent of a rider caught doping only then to return with the promise of not "cheating" anymore, redemption and all that...

I'd say that we might have to wait ten years to "know" if the new administration (or should I say figurehead) is worthy of trust..

Sometimes Cookson appeals to me, other times he appalls me....

I have yet to decide if the latter is because of incompetence, insincerity, or just plain naivity...

I do think he is in way over his head..
Most in his position right now probably would be....

But I will not pass final judgement yet, only criticize and scrutinize when it is due... Maybe that is more often then fair.. But then again, he's the UCI...

Upon reflection I'd like to see the outcome of the CIRC report -first and foremost will be in-house cleaning..

That is in my opinion more important than nailing a few riders or current directeur sportifs... Banning Riis, Vino or the likes will probably be progress, but in the grand scheme of things I think they need to adjust their rules and administration so that being clean is something worth aspire to...

So Cookson...
Set a good example with your report, and make something out of it...

Maybe it is time to let go of running anti-doping as the key promoter of the sport...

edit: Yes, at times -I can be a romantic....
 
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
1
0
markene2 said:
Calling it now. Plenty of east europeans in the report. And a couple of Spaniards and Italians. And not a single Brit. All part of the new clean generation
basically what i was saying.
high profile poster boys like cancellara, kittel, the whole sky/garmin bunch, they're protected.

Astana, Katusha and the likes can be thrown under the bus.

Not sure if Tinkov has been able to buy his team enough protection.

Leinders, Zorzoli?
we may hear something that relates to the Verbruggen/McQuaid/Rabobank period, part of the past.
 
Feb 22, 2011
465
0
0
mrhender said:
Trust has to be earned.. The UCI is the historical equivalent of a rider caught doping only then to return with the promise of not "cheating" anymore, redemption and all that...

I'd say that we might have to wait ten years to "know" if the new administration (or should I say figurehead) is worthy of trust..

Sometimes Cookson appeals to me, other times he appalls me....

I have yet to decide if the latter is because of incompetence, insincerity, or just plain naivity...

I do think he is in way over his head..
Most in his position right now probably would be....

But I will not pass final judgement yet, only criticize and scrutinize when it is due... Maybe that is more often then fair.. But then again, he's the UCI...

Upon reflection I'd like to see the outcome of the CIRC report -first and foremost will be in-house cleaning..

That is in my opinion more important than nailing a few riders or current directeur sportifs... Banning Riis, Vino or the likes will probably be progress, but in the grand scheme of things I think they need to adjust their rules and administration so that being clean is something worth aspire to...

So Cookson...
Set a good example with your report, and make something out of it...

Maybe it is time to let go of running anti-doping as the key promoter of the sport...

edit: Yes, at times -I can be a romantic....
Is whitewash a 10 character word? No? Well, there you go.
 
hideaway

mrhender said:
But I will not pass final judgement yet, only criticize and scrutinize when it is due... Maybe that is more often then fair.. But then again, he's the UCI...
who else woulda been stooopid enough to take on the challenge?

the report describes every wrong doing and poor 'lil brian carries the can

...............it's not so bad it's a cover up

..........rather like pro cycling................we hope for a clean sport but what

if the UCI really stopmped on doping?................would pro teams abandon

the UCI with their own union?

Mark L
 
sniper said:
basically what i was saying.
high profile poster boys like cancellara, kittel, the whole sky/garmin bunch, they're protected.

Astana, Katusha and the likes can be thrown under the bus.

Not sure if Tinkov has been able to buy his team enough protection.

Leinders, Zorzoli?
we may hear something that relates to the Verbruggen/McQuaid/Rabobank period, part of the past.
Why would the reigning tdf champion team who said all the right bs about how the sport is clean now, be thrown under the bus?
 
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
1
0
The Hitch said:
Why would the reigning tdf champion team who said all the right bs about how the sport is clean now, be thrown under the bus?
good question, i don't know, but i know they got five positives last year.

not that i know exactly what was behind it, but it looks as if uci have a licence to throw east-blockers under the bus.

i don't think there'll be anything on nibbles, to be sure.
but vino seems out there all by himself without any decent institutional protection.
 
sniper said:
basically what i was saying.
high profile poster boys like cancellara, kittel, the whole sky/garmin bunch, they're protected.

Astana, Katusha and the likes can be thrown under the bus.

Not sure if Tinkov has been able to buy his team enough protection.

Leinders, Zorzoli?
we may hear something that relates to the Verbruggen/McQuaid/Rabobank period, part of the past.
Markov's support for Cookson has ensured Katusha will be fine, reference: Menchov.

Astana will also be fine. They have enough power to buy the UCI 15 times over. Vino has connections all through Europe.

Cookson knows like everyone else that doping is not just rider/doctor. There's a global network of drug distribution all over the world. Those guys didn't just forgo all of their money making from athletes because Cookson decided the sport is now clean. No chance. There has been no significant bust of performance enhancement drug cartels in recent memory or ever.

If the Mexican drug cartels can push the price of lime up 95% to ease drug enforcement on their cocaine sales then the PED cartels won't stop the distribution of Chinese EPO because Vaughters said the sport is now cleans.

The cause can be traced across the border, to the central state of Michoacan, home to the world's biggest supplier of limes and current site of a bloody war between citizen self-defense groups and the violent Knights Templar cartel.
 
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
1
0
thehog said:
Markov's support for Cookson has ensured Katusha will be fine, reference: Menchov.

Astana will also be fine. They have enough power to buy the UCI 15 times over. Vino has connections all through Europe.

Cookson knows like everyone else that doping is not just rider/doctor. There's a global network of drug distribution all over the world. Those guys didn't just forgo all of their money making from athletes because Cookson decided the sport is now clean. No chance. There has been no significant bust of performance enhancement drug cartels in recent memory or ever.

If the Mexican drug cartels can push the price of lime up 95% to ease drug enforcement on their cocaine sales then the PED cartels won't stop the distribution of Chinese EPO because Vaughters said the sport is now cleans.
good points.
my only "but" is that vino couldn't keep those positives from happening last year.

no doubt that the procycling at present perfectly holds its own with other forms of organized crime.
 
sniper said:
good points.
my only "but" is that vino couldn't keep those positives from happening last year.

no doubt that the procycling at present perfectly holds its own with other forms of organized crime.
Those positives were super strange. I just found it so odd how 2 Pro Tour riders finishing mid pack in an post Tour race were caught for EPO. Just out of the blue. Then 3 Continental riders were busted for non-descript steroids.

It was no coincidence. I sense it was a method of brining Astana back into line as their doping may have gone off the ?UCI approved doping radar?. It did show if the UCI was actually interested in catching riders it could do it fairly easily. But they have little interest in doing so and the testing just avoids ever actually catching anyone.

The significant part of the Padova investigation is not the riders but the network behind the doping. Its huge!

And people think a clean Sky or clean Garmin can defeat a 30million euro drug network of mid pack Italians and Russians?

Not likely.

It reveals how Padua public prosecutor Benedetto Roberti carefully followed the money and discovered a series of contracts and secret payments totaling a reported 30 million Euro. It seems that riders avoided paying tax by recycling money via Gibraltar, Monte Carlo, Switzerland and South America.

Gazzetta dello Sport quote from investigation documents that claim Dr. Ferrari was behind the brains behind the plot.

"Along with his son Stefano and the agent Raimondo Scimone, they promoted and created the network," Gazzetta quotes from official documents.

Gazzetta write that bank managers in Switzerland and Monte Carlo were also involved in a scheme that offered a complete package of services, that went from drawing up contracts, coaching and drugs, legal assistance and even the help of doping experts if they tested positive.

As well as phone taps and bank records, Gazzetta says the investigation is apparently backed up by "the searching of riders who worked with Dr. Ferrari: in every occasion doping products (hormones) were discovered, with some of them illegally taken to Switzerland during trips to St. Moritz."
 
Dec 7, 2010
8,773
2
0
mrhender said:
Yes, and the Clinic will go all:

LMAO :D

You win man!

I notice you have to be 6+ to play! That reduces the amount of players by at least half! Most of these guys have less than a 1st grade edumication. :eek:
 
thehog said:
Markov's support for Cookson has ensured Katusha will be fine, reference: Menchov.

Astana will also be fine. They have enough power to buy the UCI 15 times over. Vino has connections all through Europe.

Cookson knows like everyone else that doping is not just rider/doctor. There's a global network of drug distribution all over the world. Those guys didn't just forgo all of their money making from athletes because Cookson decided the sport is now clean. No chance. There has been no significant bust of performance enhancement drug cartels in recent memory or ever.

If the Mexican drug cartels can push the price of lime up 95% to ease drug enforcement on their cocaine sales then the PED cartels won't stop the distribution of Chinese EPO because Vaughters said the sport is now cleans.
This. Whatever is published is going to consist of ancient stories known to hardcore watchers consisting of retired or banned personalities.

I do think there will be some odd stuff in there to throw a few names in disrepute, maybe extract a few more bribes.

Good thing the sport is cleans now.
 
DirtyWorks said:
This. Whatever is published is going to consist of ancient stories known to hardcore watchers consisting of retired or banned personalities.

I do think there will be some odd stuff in there to throw a few names in disrepute, maybe extract a few more bribes.

Good thing the sport is cleans now.
My biggest fear is there will be praise for the Garmin's and Sky's in the report of cleaning up the sport.

Slightly off-topic but this is why a Vaughters or Brialsford are so dangerous for the sport. More dangerous than a Riis. A Riis at least doesn't spout total BS that the sport is now 99% cleans.

Vaughters & Brailsford are willing to explain away that whilst the Italians and emerging market nations are hooked into a 30m euro drug network somehow Sky & Garmin beat all of that with technology alone.

This report could very well certify JV and DB crapola. Scary.
 
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
1
0
thehog said:
My biggest fear is there will be praise for the Garmin's and Sky's in the report of cleaning up the sport.

Slightly off-topic but this is why a Vaughters or Brialsford are so dangerous for the sport. More dangerous than a Riis. A Riis at least doesn't spout total BS that the sport is now 99% cleans.

Vaughters & Brailsford are willing to explain away that whilst the Italians and emerging market nations are hooked into a 30m euro drug network somehow Sky & Garmin beat all of that with technology alone.

This report could very well certify JV and DB crapola. Scary.
i share these sentiments.
 
Jul 11, 2013
3,340
0
0
Digger said:
When we looking at again for this release? First week of March?
I believe they will publish the report closely before the TDS (tackling doping in sport) summit where Cookson is suppose to appear..
It is to be held 18-19 march in London...
 
Feb 22, 2014
779
0
0
DirtyWorks said:
This. Whatever is published is going to consist of ancient stories known to hardcore watchers consisting of retired or banned personalities.

I do think there will be some odd stuff in there to throw a few names in disrepute, maybe extract a few more bribes.

Good thing the sport is cleans now.
You come across as a polished hardcore watcher. What yarns do you think will adorn the top 10 ancient stories?
 
Sep 23, 2011
536
0
0
I'm not sure how easity UCI can control the narrative on this report.

The contents will be driven by who turned up to CIRC and what they said. CIRC can hardly ignore evidence they have been given. The only way to stop any info going public would be to stop people attending any hearings - and I can certainly imagine pressure having been put on people not to attend.
 
Morbius said:
I'm not sure how easity UCI can control the narrative on this report.

The contents will be driven by who turned up to CIRC and what they said. CIRC can hardly ignore evidence they have been given. The only way to stop any info going public would be to stop people attending any hearings - and I can certainly imagine pressure having been put on people not to attend.
And if they show up and tell old stories?

What guarantees do we have the final document is complete? None. Furthermore, the UCI is not trustworthy in any way.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY