Clasica San Sebastián 1/8 -- 219km

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Re: Re:

SafeBet said:
Netserk said:
SafeBet said:
Why is Valverde taking all the blame here?
Because if he doesn't work, then the group for sure won't work together. When you are as good as Valverde is with such a good sprint, you have responsibility for the group to work together.
Same goes for Purito. He did nothing and yet almost nobody is complaining.
Because they still have a chance to beat him in a sprint even if he doesn't work. Duh.
 
Jul 31, 2015
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Re: Re:

No one from the group worked because they knew Valverde was going to win if it all came down to a sprint
Dekker_Tifosi said:
StannisBaratheon said:
Someone should have told Valverde there are no bonifications for 2nd place today
Don't you have any children to burn? :D
The Lord of Light kept his promise and restored the live coverage before the race ended.
 
Re: Re:

SafeBet said:
Netserk said:
SafeBet said:
Why is Valverde taking all the blame here?
Because if he doesn't work, then the group for sure won't work together. When you are as good as Valverde is with such a good sprint, you have responsibility for the group to work together.
Same goes for Purito. He did nothing and yet almost nobody is complaining.
He's included in the general disdain for the chase group. But at least he didn't combine his complete refusal to work to bring back the leader with bursts of serious pulling to bring back anyone who might threaten second. Valverde singled himself out by doing that.
 
Re: Re:

Netserk said:
jaylew said:
SafeBet said:
Why is Valverde taking all the blame here?
Exactly. Katusha should have been chasing. They had two guys in the group. Did anyone else?
Would any of them beat a 'fresh' Valverde after he gets towed to the line?
Movistar twitter says that Valverde was ill for half the week, so he probably wasn't near 100%. Perhaps if the other riders in the group weren't so afraid of him they could have won.

What exactly was Valverde supposed to do? Close Yates down by himself or put in huge turns at the front, only for someone else to attack him in the last few hundred metres? The guy knows how to win races - in the last two years he's won races in all different manner of styles - and he has won consistently. Which is a lot more than can be said for pretty much every other rider in the chasing group.
 
Re: Re:

StannisBaratheon said:
No one from the group worked because they knew Valverde was going to win if it all came down to a sprint
Exactly. But Valverde is not willing to chase by himself because this is probably the only scenario where somebody could beat him.

Perfect set up for Yates. But I don't get all this Valverde bashing.
 
Re:

search said:
Moreno wasn't in that chasing group anyway, just made it back right before the finish, together with Gilbert, Fuglsang, Oliveira and so on, when it was too late to catch Yates
Ah, I was "Santos, who?" when they showed the results and there wasn't a good enough picture of 12th place.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Netserk said:
jaylew said:
SafeBet said:
Why is Valverde taking all the blame here?
Exactly. Katusha should have been chasing. They had two guys in the group. Did anyone else?
Would any of them beat a 'fresh' Valverde after he gets towed to the line?
Movistar twitter says that Valverde was ill for half the week, so he probably wasn't near 100%. Perhaps if the other riders in the group weren't so afraid of him they could have won.

What exactly was Valverde supposed to do? Close Yates down by himself or put in huge turns at the front, only for someone else to attack him in the last few hundred metres? The guy knows how to win races - in the last two years he's won races in all different manner of styles - and he has won consistently. Which is a lot more than can be said for pretty much every other rider in the chasing group.
He should have pulled, not as the only one, but a bit more than the rest. If the others then don't want to cooperate with him, fine. Then he can sit up. As it was he just expected the others to tow him to the line.
 
Re: Re:

SafeBet said:
StannisBaratheon said:
No one from the group worked because they knew Valverde was going to win if it all came down to a sprint
Exactly. But Valverde is not willing to chase by himself because this is probably the only scenario where somebody could beat him.

Perfect set up for Yates. But I don't get all this Valverde bashing.
What else is new? People never let the truth or logic in the way of a good Valverde-bashing.
 
Re: Re:

SafeBet said:
StannisBaratheon said:
No one from the group worked because they knew Valverde was going to win if it all came down to a sprint
Exactly. But Valverde is not willing to chase by himself because this is probably the only scenario where somebody could beat him.

Perfect set up for Yates. But I don't get all this Valverde bashing.
It's not either 100% wheelsuck or 100% pulling the group...
 
Re:

As if often the case Valverde afraid of doing some of the dirty job quickly accepts his second or third place and gets all obsessed of being the best spaniard in the race - hence he started the eye starring contest early.

Still another good finish in a remarkable season.
 
Aug 16, 2013
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Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Netserk said:
jaylew said:
SafeBet said:
Why is Valverde taking all the blame here?
Exactly. Katusha should have been chasing. They had two guys in the group. Did anyone else?
Would any of them beat a 'fresh' Valverde after he gets towed to the line?
Movistar twitter says that Valverde was ill for half the week, so he probably wasn't near 100%. Perhaps if the other riders in the group weren't so afraid of him they could have won.

What exactly was Valverde supposed to do? Close Yates down by himself or put in huge turns at the front, only for someone else to attack him in the last few hundred metres? The guy knows how to win races - in the last two years he's won races in all different manner of styles - and he has won consistently. Which is a lot more than can be said for pretty much every other rider in the chasing group.
But he loses many races too with that tactic, he could have won when racing a bit more attentive and with initiative.

Valverde was ill so he didn't had 100% confidence. Purito was ill last week and was already lost because he could not drop the other guys on the climb. Mollema never wins. Martin tried to chase to na avail. And Alaphilippe was on his max. So in that case, everybody looks at each other.
 
Re: Re:

roundabout said:
search said:
Moreno wasn't in that chasing group anyway, just made it back right before the finish, together with Gilbert, Fuglsang, Oliveira and so on, when it was too late to catch Yates
Ah, I was "Santos, who?" when they showed the results and there wasn't a good enough picture of 12th place.
yeah, me too, but there was a Lampre rider called "SANTOS, Nelson Filip" on the official start list, so it must be Oliveira

who managed to crash with 50m to go by the way, in a ~10 men sprint?
 
Let's be honest - we really didn't see enough to know with 100% certainty what really happened and who actually tried to work and when. Pretty much everything is speculation based on a couple of images
 
Jul 29, 2012
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Purito has barely a sprint on the flat, especially if you compare it with piti's sprint.
 
Re: Re:

search said:
roundabout said:
search said:
Moreno wasn't in that chasing group anyway, just made it back right before the finish, together with Gilbert, Fuglsang, Oliveira and so on, when it was too late to catch Yates
Ah, I was "Santos, who?" when they showed the results and there wasn't a good enough picture of 12th place.
yeah, me too, but there was a Lampre rider called "SANTOS, Nelson Filip" on the official start list, so it must be Oliveira

who managed to crash with 50m to go by the way, in a ~10 men sprint?
Looked like a Cofidis rider. Probably Simon would be the most likely one.

Sums up Cofidis well, even when they are in actual contention for a good place in a major race, they still mess it up.
 
Re: Re:

search said:
roundabout said:
search said:
Moreno wasn't in that chasing group anyway, just made it back right before the finish, together with Gilbert, Fuglsang, Oliveira and so on, when it was too late to catch Yates
Ah, I was "Santos, who?" when they showed the results and there wasn't a good enough picture of 12th place.
yeah, me too, but there was a Lampre rider called "SANTOS, Nelson Filip" on the official start list, so it must be Oliveira

who managed to crash with 50m to go by the way, in a ~10 men sprint?
This is great.

Goes with what I've been saying about Oliveira being a similiar rider to Dumoulin, if I may compare. Would love if he had a free-role once in a while.
 
Re: Re:

SafeBet said:
StannisBaratheon said:
No one from the group worked because they knew Valverde was going to win if it all came down to a sprint
Exactly. But Valverde is not willing to chase by himself because this is probably the only scenario where somebody could beat him.

Perfect set up for Yates. But I don't get all this Valverde bashing.
Spot on. And Valverde has already got two huge wins this year and several other great results; he is in a position where he can afford to bluff a bit and try to play to his strengths.

What have Uran, Kreuziger, Moreno, Mollema or Martin got to show for this season? The onus is on them to really go flat out for the win. It's pretty strange that Valverde - a guy that wins all the time - is taking the stick, while the other really talented riders that hardly ever win aren't copping half as much blame.
 
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