Clasica San Sebastián 1/8 -- 219km

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Re: Re:

Netserk said:
DFA123 said:
I see the hate starting for Valverde again here. It was a collective failure by all of them, not just him. He took a few pulls on the front; what were the others doing?

In fact, riders like Uran and Mollema should have been chasing even harder - maybe then one day they would actually win a race. Any race.
Valverde has the primary responsibility in such a situation because of his status. Yet he does nothing but suck wheels and chase down attacks from the group. Must save himself for the sprint for 2nd...

It's no wonder others don't want to drag him to the line.
Well, maybe the riders who have never won a race of this size should do something about rather than depend on a rider who has won so much that San Sebastian isn't really important to him anymore?
 
Re: Re:

Eyeballs Out said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
PremierAndrew said:
Valverde doesn't even get 2nd
Good. He really was riding for second there in a very irritating way.
Second was all that was available. Yates much better than him today
Don't be silly. If six of the strongest classics riders in the world had worked together, Yates would never have been able to hold his small gap after the climb. That's not to dismiss Yates' performance. He was the strongest on the climb. But getting a small gap on a climb does not equal holding off a group that strong for the seven plus kms afterwards. That they didn't catch him was purely a result of their total failure to cooperate.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
SafeBet said:
StannisBaratheon said:
No one from the group worked because they knew Valverde was going to win if it all came down to a sprint
Exactly. But Valverde is not willing to chase by himself because this is probably the only scenario where somebody could beat him.

Perfect set up for Yates. But I don't get all this Valverde bashing.
Spot on. And Valverde has already got two huge wins this year and several other great results; he is in a position where he can afford to bluff a bit and try to play to his strengths.

What have Uran, Kreuziger, Moreno, Mollema or Martin got to show for this season? The onus is on them to really go flat out for the win. It's pretty strange that Valverde - a guy that wins all the time - is taking the stick, while the other really talented riders that hardly ever win aren't copping half as much blame.
Exactly. I'll say it again. People never let the truth or logic get in the way of a good Valverde bashing. I surprised that you seem surprised by this.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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Yates won exactly how Dan Martin won his big races. Just riding off the front, hoping one's low key status leads to confusion and disunity until it's too late.
 
Re:

Scarponi said:
Why do they call it Donostia to Donostia Classic?
Donostia is Basque for San Sebastián
Strongly recommended forms cycling holiday, great hills sensational coast, and some roads where cyclists have special priority.
I had a great time there in April
 
Re: Re:

Zinoviev Letter said:
Eyeballs Out said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
PremierAndrew said:
Valverde doesn't even get 2nd
Good. He really was riding for second there in a very irritating way.
Second was all that was available. Yates much better than him today
Don't be silly. If six of the strongest classics riders in the world had worked together, Yates would never have been able to hold his small gap after the climb. That's not to dismiss Yates' performance. He was the strongest on the climb. But getting a small gap on a climb does not equal holding off a group that strong for the seven plus kms afterwards. That they didn't catch him was purely a result of their total failure to cooperate.
But then you ought to admit it was more of a collective brain fart, rather than Valverde's sole fault. The only thing we can accuse Valverde of is sabotaging Martin's and Kreuziger's efforts with no intention to catch the lead.
 
Re: Re:

BigMac said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
Eyeballs Out said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
PremierAndrew said:
Valverde doesn't even get 2nd
Good. He really was riding for second there in a very irritating way.
Second was all that was available. Yates much better than him today
Don't be silly. If six of the strongest classics riders in the world had worked together, Yates would never have been able to hold his small gap after the climb. That's not to dismiss Yates' performance. He was the strongest on the climb. But getting a small gap on a climb does not equal holding off a group that strong for the seven plus kms afterwards. That they didn't catch him was purely a result of their total failure to cooperate.
But then you ought to admit it was more of a collective brain fart, rather than Valverde's sole fault. The only thing we can accuse Valverde of is sabotaging Martin's and Kreuziger's efforts with no intention to catch the lead.
Why do you think they didn't want to work together?

They would be more likely to catch Yates if Valverde wasn't in the group.
 
Re: Re:

Zinoviev Letter said:
Eyeballs Out said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
PremierAndrew said:
Valverde doesn't even get 2nd
Good. He really was riding for second there in a very irritating way.
Second was all that was available. Yates much better than him today
Don't be silly. If six of the strongest classics riders in the world had worked together, Yates would never have been able to hold his small gap after the climb. That's not to dismiss Yates' performance. He was the strongest on the climb. But getting a small gap on a climb does not equal holding off a group that strong for the seven plus kms afterwards. That they didn't catch him was purely a result of their total failure to cooperate.
If they were strong they wouldn't have been gapped. It's like expecting Rodriguez to be caught in Lombardy 2012 / 2013. Unless there's a strong headwind. Forget it
 
Re: Re:

Eyeballs Out said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
Eyeballs Out said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
PremierAndrew said:
Valverde doesn't even get 2nd
Good. He really was riding for second there in a very irritating way.
Second was all that was available. Yates much better than him today
Don't be silly. If six of the strongest classics riders in the world had worked together, Yates would never have been able to hold his small gap after the climb. That's not to dismiss Yates' performance. He was the strongest on the climb. But getting a small gap on a climb does not equal holding off a group that strong for the seven plus kms afterwards. That they didn't catch him was purely a result of their total failure to cooperate.
If they were strong they wouldn't have been gapped. It's like expecting Rodriguez to be caught in Lombardy 2012 / 2013. Unless there's a strong headwind. Forget it

Yates had less than 5 seconds going over the top of the climb. Then the others sat up and messed around on the descent allowing the lead to grow out to 15 seconds. Then a couple of riders tried to attack from the chasing group to solo across to Yates - which was never going to work.

If they had worked together from the top of the climb they would easily have caught him. They were sitting up and discussing what to do on the descent and then attacking each other on the flat section. It was a disastrous chase.
 
Re: Re:

jaylew said:
Exactly. I'll say it again. People never let the truth or logic get in the way of a good Valverde bashing. I surprised that you seem surprised by this.
Valverde's habitual wheelsucking in major races is usually the most sensible use of his talents, as it is with a Gerrans. If you have a great sprint, then you wait to use it whenever possible. Both riders take a lot of stick for it, for understandable reasons from a fan perspective and both ignore that stick, for understandable reasons from their perspective - ie their job is to win not to entertain.

But, a refusal to work doesn't always maximise Valverde's chance to win. His only chance to win was for the group to cooperate. The group was never going to cooperate with the biggest favourite and fastest sprinter freeloading. Valverde had to contribute. The others might try to sit on him, in which case he sits up. But the only chance of the others working together is in a scenario where he works too. Because if the others work while he sits on, he wins as surely as Yates wins if they don't work. On this occasion, Valverde was racing in a manner that made it impossible for him to win.

What's more, the one time he really did hit the front and make a big effort was to bring Martin back. As soon as he'd protected second, he instantly sat up again. That's racing for second in anyone's book and it's really annoying from the outright favourite for a race.

Just because Valverde gets unjustified criticism doesn't make all criticism of him unjustified.
 
coinneach said:
And the last British winner (who Adam reminds me of a bit) in San Sebastián was?
Alright, I know it's pathetic to quote you're own post but as everybody else is Valverde-bashing, I'll answer it before it gets lost:
Tom Simpson won his world championship there....no pressure then, for Adam to live up to that :eek:
 
Aug 16, 2013
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Greg Van Avermaet ‏@GregVanAvermaet 6 min.6 minuten geleden Vertaling weergeven
I was going to win classics San Sebastián until the motto run into me and put me on the ground. Game over! Bravo organization, bravo motto!
 
Re: Re:

Eyeballs Out said:
If they were strong they wouldn't have been gapped.
Being able to get a few seconds gap on a charge up a hill does not mean that a rider is strong enough to hold off a concerted chase by six of the world's best over 7 km of downhill and flat. They are simply different things, which the use of the all encompassing word "strong" serves to obscure. Yates held them off because they did not work together at all. There's nothing more to it than that.
 
Jun 24, 2013
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Now we know where GVA (who twitter said was in front right as images were back) went
 
Re:

Arredondo said:
Greg Van Avermaet ‏@GregVanAvermaet 6 min.6 minuten geleden Vertaling weergeven
I was going to win classics San Sebastián until the motto run into me and put me on the ground. Game over! Bravo organization, bravo motto!
That explains why Yates didn't think he had won.
 
Aug 16, 2013
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Re: Re:

Netserk said:
Arredondo said:
Greg Van Avermaet ‏@GregVanAvermaet 6 min.6 minuten geleden Vertaling weergeven
I was going to win classics San Sebastián until the motto run into me and put me on the ground. Game over! Bravo organization, bravo motto!
That explains why Yates didn't think he had won.
But how could he been in front? :confused: :confused:
 
Re: Re:

Arredondo said:
Netserk said:
Arredondo said:
Greg Van Avermaet ‏@GregVanAvermaet 6 min.6 minuten geleden Vertaling weergeven
I was going to win classics San Sebastián until the motto run into me and put me on the ground. Game over! Bravo organization, bravo motto!
That explains why Yates didn't think he had won.
But how could he been in front? :confused: :confused:
Being first over the last climb?
 
Re: Re:

Arredondo said:
Netserk said:
Arredondo said:
Greg Van Avermaet ‏@GregVanAvermaet 6 min.6 minuten geleden Vertaling weergeven
I was going to win classics San Sebastián until the motto run into me and put me on the ground. Game over! Bravo organization, bravo motto!
That explains why Yates didn't think he had won.
But how could he been in front? :confused: :confused:
I guess if it happened near the top of the climb; Yates might have had his head down and still thought GVA was ahead of him. That's why he had such a long conversation with his team in the final straight; presumably they were stuck way behind the peloton still and had no TV images so couldn't confirm either.
 
Aug 4, 2010
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Re:

BigMac said:
Kreuziger the one who pulled the most gets little to no kudos.

Kudos Kreuziger.
as always :( , Im still not over his LBL wasted form, attacks and monster pulls with no result (well 8th or something)
 
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