Clasica San Sebastián 1/8 -- 219km

Page 13 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Re: Re:

BigMac said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
Eyeballs Out said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
PremierAndrew said:
Valverde doesn't even get 2nd
Good. He really was riding for second there in a very irritating way.
Second was all that was available. Yates much better than him today
Don't be silly. If six of the strongest classics riders in the world had worked together, Yates would never have been able to hold his small gap after the climb. That's not to dismiss Yates' performance. He was the strongest on the climb. But getting a small gap on a climb does not equal holding off a group that strong for the seven plus kms afterwards. That they didn't catch him was purely a result of their total failure to cooperate.
But then you ought to admit it was more of a collective brain fart, rather than Valverde's sole fault. The only thing we can accuse Valverde of is sabotaging Martin's and Kreuziger's efforts with no intention to catch the lead.
I do blame them collectively! It was an atrocious, embarrassing, chase by six of the best riders in the peloton.

Valverde was the worst offender because (a) he was the biggest favourite with the biggest responsibility and (b) because he actually did work whenever someone threatened second while doing none at all to catch the leader. But that makes him the ringleader of our gang of criminals, not the only evildoer!
 
Re: Re:

Zinoviev Letter said:
Eyeballs Out said:
If they were strong they wouldn't have been gapped.
Being able to get a few seconds gap on a charge up a hill does not mean that a rider is strong enough to hold off a concerted chase by six of the world's best over 7 km of downhill and flat. They are simply different things, which the use of the all encompassing word "strong" serves to obscure. Yates held them off because they did not work together at all. There's nothing more to it than that.
For Yates to be a few seconds stronger that the rest at the point where everyone is going at 100% because they know that is where the race is decided - that's actually a very big difference in strength. He still has the same strength advantage after the hill (unless you think it's all rouleurs behind). People are acting like he got that gap with a surprise attack. Even with surprise attacks it's very common for a chase to fail because they can't get organized but obviously a lot more common when you know who the strongest is
 
Jun 24, 2013
2,705
1
0
GVA was leading with 500 metres to go to the top of the climb untill a motor made him crash and broke his frame. he must have had a decent gap cause he was already up again at the side of the road when Yates passed him
 
Re: Re:

Zinoviev Letter said:
I do blame them collectively! It was an atrocious, embarrassing, chase by six of the best riders in the peloton.
for me, looking at the top 10 I am very glad they were atrocious (since the only chasers I root for are D.Martin and Mollema)

glad Yates did it

1 Adam Yates (GBr) Orica GreenEdge 5:30:22
2 Philippe Gilbert (Bel) BMC Racing Team 0:00:15
3 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Movistar Team
4 Daniel Moreno Fernandez (Spa) Team Katusha
5 Joaquim Rodriguez (Spa) Team Katusha
6 Bauke Mollema (Ned) Trek Factory Racing
7 Daniel Martin (Irl) Cannondale-Garmin Pro Cycling Team
8 Julian Alaphilippe (Fra) Etixx - Quick-Step
9 Warren Barguil (Fra) Team Giant-Alpecin
10 Rigoberto Uran (Col) Etixx - Quick-Step
 
Re:

Billie said:
GVA was leading with 500 metres to go to the top of the climb untill a motor made him crash and broke his frame. he must have had a decent gap cause he was already up again at the side of the road when Yates passed him
I'm pleased to hear it was with 500m to go, so, whatever GVA may say, it probably wasn't a winning attack so far from the top. I imagine the favourites would have waited later in the climb before really going all out.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Bordako was scrapped from next year, it's just too narrow for riders, motos and spectators. It's not really safe to ride - let alone attack - at such a crucial point in the race.
 
Re: Re:

pastronef said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
I do blame them collectively! It was an atrocious, embarrassing, chase by six of the best riders in the peloton.
for me, looking at the top 10 I am very glad they were atrocious (since the only chasers I root for are D.Martin and Mollema)

glad Yates did it

1 Adam Yates (GBr) Orica GreenEdge 5:30:22
2 Philippe Gilbert (Bel) BMC Racing Team 0:00:15
3 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Movistar Team
4 Daniel Moreno Fernandez (Spa) Team Katusha
5 Joaquim Rodriguez (Spa) Team Katusha
6 Bauke Mollema (Ned) Trek Factory Racing
7 Daniel Martin (Irl) Cannondale-Garmin Pro Cycling Team
8 Julian Alaphilippe (Fra) Etixx - Quick-Step
9 Warren Barguil (Fra) Team Giant-Alpecin
10 Rigoberto Uran (Col) Etixx - Quick-Step
An impressive ride by Gilbert, to finish second having tried to attack from quite far out earlier in the day.

He's a rider that always goes all out for the win; knew he was unlikely to hang with the best on the Bordako, so was pro-active earlier in the day, and still raced hard to get back on and win the bunch sprint at the end.
 
Re: Re:

Zinoviev Letter said:
jaylew said:
Exactly. I'll say it again. People never let the truth or logic get in the way of a good Valverde bashing. I surprised that you seem surprised by this.
Valverde's habitual wheelsucking in major races is usually the most sensible use of his talents, as it is with a Gerrans. If you have a great sprint, then you wait to use it whenever possible. Both riders take a lot of stick for it, for understandable reasons from a fan perspective and both ignore that stick, for understandable reasons from their perspective - ie their job is to win not to entertain.

But, a refusal to work doesn't always maximise Valverde's chance to win. His only chance to win was for the group to cooperate. The group was never going to cooperate with the biggest favourite and fastest sprinter freeloading. Valverde had to contribute. The others might try to sit on him, in which case he sits up. But the only chance of the others working together is in a scenario where he works too. Because if the others work while he sits on, he wins as surely as Yates wins if they don't work. On this occasion, Valverde was racing in a manner that made it impossible for him to win.

What's more, the one time he really did hit the front and make a big effort was to bring Martin back. As soon as he'd protected second, he instantly sat up again. That's racing for second in anyone's book and it's really annoying from the outright favourite for a race.

Just because Valverde gets unjustified criticism doesn't make all criticism of him unjustified.
I don't disagree with your last sentence, the problem is you're stating things as facts which can't be, imo. We saw the same thing and we really have no idea what actually happened with the group. You're making assumptions based on a few seconds of images.
 
Jun 30, 2014
7,060
0
0
Re: Re:

Netserk said:
SafeBet said:
Why is Valverde taking all the blame here?
Because if he doesn't work, then the group for sure won't work together. When you are as good as Valverde is with such a good sprint, you have responsibility for the group to work together.
Exactly if you have a guy like Valverde in the group nd he refuses to work nobody will work, why should they give him an easy ride and bring him to the finish line when he's the strongest sprinter in the group?
 
Nov 29, 2010
2,326
0
0
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Billie said:
GVA was leading with 500 metres to go to the top of the climb untill a motor made him crash and broke his frame. he must have had a decent gap cause he was already up again at the side of the road when Yates passed him
I'm pleased to hear it was with 500m to go, so, whatever GVA may say, it probably wasn't a winning attack so far from the top. I imagine the favourites would have waited later in the climb before really going all out.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Bordako was scrapped from next year, it's just too narrow for riders, motos and spectators. It's not really safe to ride - let alone attack - at such a crucial point in the race.
Since when is 500m a big distance ?

Considering how the finish played out it's highly possible GVA would've won. I don't imagine Yates would catch him.
 
Re: Re:

deValtos said:
DFA123 said:
Billie said:
GVA was leading with 500 metres to go to the top of the climb untill a motor made him crash and broke his frame. he must have had a decent gap cause he was already up again at the side of the road when Yates passed him
I'm pleased to hear it was with 500m to go, so, whatever GVA may say, it probably wasn't a winning attack so far from the top. I imagine the favourites would have waited later in the climb before really going all out.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Bordako was scrapped from next year, it's just too narrow for riders, motos and spectators. It's not really safe to ride - let alone attack - at such a crucial point in the race.
Since when is 500m a big distance ?

Considering how the finish played out it's highly possible GVA would've won. I don't imagine Yates would catch him.
500m is a long way when it averages about 14% gradient. I think Nieve or Visconti was leading at the same point last year., both got overtaken well before the summit.
 
Re:

Arredondo said:
Greg Van Avermaet ‏@GregVanAvermaet 6 min.6 minuten geleden Vertaling weergeven
I was going to win classics San Sebastián until the motto run into me and put me on the ground. Game over! Bravo organization, bravo motto!
If the Valverde group were unaware of this, that might account for why they made little concerted attempt to chase down Yates. They thought that all that effort would have been only for second place.
 
Nov 29, 2010
2,326
0
0
Well either way I guess it explains why Yates was so confused. He must've thought GVA was still out front.
 
Re: Re:

Eyeballs Out said:
[He still has the same strength advantage after the hill
Up is not down is not flat. What's more on a climb it's relatively speaking every man for himself, once off the climb it's six against one.

The chasers were visibly, obviously, screwing around, looking at each other, avoiding the front, chasing in about as non-optimal a way as possible. Despite this, Yates only put a few more seconds into them. Working together smoothly they'd have caught him long before the finish. A five second gap over seven kms of descent and flat, with one against six. Yates is not Tony Martin or Cancellara. That's no disrespect to his performance. Being the strongest on the climb, albeit by a small margin, is an impressive accomplishment in that company. But the win was determined by the messing about in the chase group, not by Yates suddenly becoming a beast on the flat.
 
Re:

deValtos said:
Well either way I guess it explains why Yates was so confused. He must've thought GVA was still out front.
No, he thought parts of the break were still there. He was rolling round at the back of the peloton with a lap to go, so wouldn't have known who was up there. And, of course, his team weren't sure either with the lack of pictures.
 
Jun 24, 2013
2,705
1
0
Re:

deValtos said:
Well either way I guess it explains why Yates was so confused. He must've thought GVA was still out front.
The motor that crashed GVA was from Radio Tour so I doubt anybody had any usefull information
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Valv.Piti Professional Road Racing 176

ASK THE COMMUNITY