- Jul 25, 2012
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- Sep 29, 2012
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- Jul 25, 2012
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Re:
Which is understandable given the completely incestuous intermingling of the two nations' coaching and back office staff.
King Boonen said:
Which is understandable given the completely incestuous intermingling of the two nations' coaching and back office staff.
- Jul 25, 2012
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Yep. What makes it even more strange is we're meant to hate each other when it comes to sport. We're meant to want to see each other fail...
- Aug 5, 2009
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- Aug 5, 2009
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- Sep 29, 2012
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Re:
Yeah I never understood that. Or the intense interest in cricket, for that matter.
Makes a mockery of the sporting spirit concept.
King Boonen said:
Yeah I never understood that. Or the intense interest in cricket, for that matter.
Makes a mockery of the sporting spirit concept.
- Jul 24, 2012
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Gotta say a lot of this was in hope.
I was of the impression that Evans was regarded as a clean rider?
What about Adam Hansen? or does he have the Jens Voigt factor of being protected by being popular.
The Sulzberger brothers?? - They seemed to have slipped back into pro-conti level?
I was of the impression that Evans was regarded as a clean rider?
What about Adam Hansen? or does he have the Jens Voigt factor of being protected by being popular.
The Sulzberger brothers?? - They seemed to have slipped back into pro-conti level?
- Sep 7, 2014
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Re:
I expect there are some riders on the local circuit who are clean, however at the top level it is really hard. Perhaps some young riders or riders who are not doing anything, but it impossible to know which ones.
Evans is a dubious proposition.
MellowJohnny said:
I expect there are some riders on the local circuit who are clean, however at the top level it is really hard. Perhaps some young riders or riders who are not doing anything, but it impossible to know which ones.
Evans is a dubious proposition.
- May 23, 2009
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Re:
Hansen? He's going for 12 GT finishes in a row, and is starting to show his hand in breaks more and more the last few years. To his credit he saves himself for stages and hasn't done anything too stupendous. He also did the hard yards in order to turn pro.
Bernie Sulzberger has only recently got to Pro Conti and has a less than stellar reputation off some of his Fly V performances.
Wes Sulzberger is unfulfilled/early peaking talent. Was another awesome junior/U23 so probably a high natural level. Surprising that he got dropped by Drapac, he had an ok season last year
Evans? Consulting with Ferrari and mixing it up with Contador and the Chicken doesn't suggest cleanliness.MellowJohnny said:
Hansen? He's going for 12 GT finishes in a row, and is starting to show his hand in breaks more and more the last few years. To his credit he saves himself for stages and hasn't done anything too stupendous. He also did the hard yards in order to turn pro.
Bernie Sulzberger has only recently got to Pro Conti and has a less than stellar reputation off some of his Fly V performances.
Wes Sulzberger is unfulfilled/early peaking talent. Was another awesome junior/U23 so probably a high natural level. Surprising that he got dropped by Drapac, he had an ok season last year
- Aug 5, 2009
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Re: Re:
It's funny that every time Evans is mentioned re doping the name of Ferrari also appears. Consulting with someone even with a dubious reputation is not proof of anything. Neither is mixing it up with Contador in 2007 when Contador was nowhere near his peak as a pro. Rasmussen I don't think was the talent of Evans or Contador but he would won the 2007 Tour for sure and convincingly which is still not proof that Evans was doping. Circumstantial evidence might be against Evans but performance wise, most of the time he was not doing any android type rides and mostly he was consistent to the type of rider he was.
He was never the best at TT or climbing and the only time he looked better than Contador was when he won in the Tour 2011 when Contador had issues and already had the Giro in his legs and it was Evans turn to have some luck but even that performance as consistent as it was was not startling. He hardly ever attacked which was typical, got dropped on most mountains but managed his losses except for the Alpe where he only had to mark the Schlecks. The TT course suited him much more than his rivals and he did not have any falls or bad luck like some of the others. None of this proves he was not doping of course but I have always thought the evidence for Evans doping is no better than the evidence he was not. Maybe I am more hopeful as the alternative would be disappointing. I am still not convinced one way or the other, same with a few other good riders. I would be willing to give Hansen the benefit of the doubt. Others would probably disagree.
42x16ss said:
It's funny that every time Evans is mentioned re doping the name of Ferrari also appears. Consulting with someone even with a dubious reputation is not proof of anything. Neither is mixing it up with Contador in 2007 when Contador was nowhere near his peak as a pro. Rasmussen I don't think was the talent of Evans or Contador but he would won the 2007 Tour for sure and convincingly which is still not proof that Evans was doping. Circumstantial evidence might be against Evans but performance wise, most of the time he was not doing any android type rides and mostly he was consistent to the type of rider he was.
He was never the best at TT or climbing and the only time he looked better than Contador was when he won in the Tour 2011 when Contador had issues and already had the Giro in his legs and it was Evans turn to have some luck but even that performance as consistent as it was was not startling. He hardly ever attacked which was typical, got dropped on most mountains but managed his losses except for the Alpe where he only had to mark the Schlecks. The TT course suited him much more than his rivals and he did not have any falls or bad luck like some of the others. None of this proves he was not doping of course but I have always thought the evidence for Evans doping is no better than the evidence he was not. Maybe I am more hopeful as the alternative would be disappointing. I am still not convinced one way or the other, same with a few other good riders. I would be willing to give Hansen the benefit of the doubt. Others would probably disagree.
- Sep 29, 2012
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Re:
But assuming he doped massively, you gotta wonder why he couldn't keep up with the best (well when the best were around, so forget 2011).
Guys like Evans, Hesjedal, I don't see natural climbers (waaay to heavy for that, let's be real). I see dopers who managed to bridge the gap to the top, but when put against more talented climber-dopers like Alberto, Rasmussen, you name them, then they just can't keep up.
of course I can't deny him some talent.Dear Wiggo said:
But assuming he doped massively, you gotta wonder why he couldn't keep up with the best (well when the best were around, so forget 2011).
Guys like Evans, Hesjedal, I don't see natural climbers (waaay to heavy for that, let's be real). I see dopers who managed to bridge the gap to the top, but when put against more talented climber-dopers like Alberto, Rasmussen, you name them, then they just can't keep up.
- Jul 15, 2013
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Galibier and Alpe stages exploded earlier, Luz Ardiden and Plateau de Beille had lots of waiting and looking back
Evans only needed to defend and Andy only wanted to wait for his brother
Perhaps because they never went all out from the bottom of a climbDear Wiggo said:
Galibier and Alpe stages exploded earlier, Luz Ardiden and Plateau de Beille had lots of waiting and looking back
Evans only needed to defend and Andy only wanted to wait for his brother
- Jul 25, 2012
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Re: Re:
But cricket!!
Yeah, it's bollocks, I've never got into it and always enjoyed watching the Aussies compete in sports (mainly rugby league) because they're bloody good at it.
Dear Wiggo said:
But cricket!!
Yeah, it's bollocks, I've never got into it and always enjoyed watching the Aussies compete in sports (mainly rugby league) because they're bloody good at it.
Re: Re:
You are assuming a lot. You don't know how riders respond to PED's. Someone my have less talent but be a better responder. Doping is not a talent. Unless you have all the scientific data its impossible to know who his more talented.
I think Cadel is very underated. He has more than his fair share of bad luck and the window he had when it all came together IMO he proved he could climb [short steep or long] as good as anyone and was much more versatile than Bertie and Rasmussen as his WC win proves.
sniper said:
You are assuming a lot. You don't know how riders respond to PED's. Someone my have less talent but be a better responder. Doping is not a talent. Unless you have all the scientific data its impossible to know who his more talented.
I think Cadel is very underated. He has more than his fair share of bad luck and the window he had when it all came together IMO he proved he could climb [short steep or long] as good as anyone and was much more versatile than Bertie and Rasmussen as his WC win proves.
indeed he proved he could climb.
even though his physique and technique don't seem to suit climbing at all.
his climbing style never looked very natural. It looked Riis-ish.
Did you ever see Evans accellerate out of the saddle the way a Pantani or a Contador did? Of course not. Not a natural climber. The word 'souplesse' just doesn't apply to Cadel. More like a powerhouse.
Not normal to see him climb with the likes of Contador.
even though his physique and technique don't seem to suit climbing at all.
his climbing style never looked very natural. It looked Riis-ish.
Did you ever see Evans accellerate out of the saddle the way a Pantani or a Contador did? Of course not. Not a natural climber. The word 'souplesse' just doesn't apply to Cadel. More like a powerhouse.
Not normal to see him climb with the likes of Contador.
You may have a point. But define natural GT talent.
Perhaps if you take Eddie Merckx as a point of reference.
Has there ever been a good discussion about Merckx's natural talent?
Just shooting: I don't think we would have seen a lot of Eddie Merckx in the mountains if it wasn't for immense doping.
And in terms of 'souplesse' on the bike uphill, with which GT legend would you want to compare Cadel?
I couldn't think of any. Say of Armstrong what you will, he had that bit of souplesse on the bike that I think characterizes natural talents and that Cadel shows no signs of.
Perhaps if you take Eddie Merckx as a point of reference.
Has there ever been a good discussion about Merckx's natural talent?
Just shooting: I don't think we would have seen a lot of Eddie Merckx in the mountains if it wasn't for immense doping.
And in terms of 'souplesse' on the bike uphill, with which GT legend would you want to compare Cadel?
I couldn't think of any. Say of Armstrong what you will, he had that bit of souplesse on the bike that I think characterizes natural talents and that Cadel shows no signs of.
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