Clean Brits?

[fruit bars with eyes]

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......that went right under the radar without anyone picking up on that statement......care to elaborate ?

that's what i thought - YOUTH? I'm all ears

 

[Dr.Sahl]

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......that went right under the radar without anyone picking up on that statement......care to elaborate ?

I already wrote about this in the SKY thread during the tour, but people just disregard it saying "why would he ever dope thats not normal"

I obviously can't get my friend to make a statement official "ever heard about anyone doing that" but I mean.. I find it odd that people think all starts "that goes for all sports" are just clean.. I can tell you from personal experience that doping is very normal "ofc not hardcore" in clubs on youth level... I've seen a few of my friends take "light doping" if you want to call it that... and we are talking youth football teams here, sure they are elite but its more normal than many like to think.

Its even more fun that the ones defending riders in cycling are often from the same country as the rider in question (nationalism makes blind for many).. those are the sad facts.


We can then argue if alot of the doping in youth are very very light and not harmful at all.. but to think the vast majority in pro sports, don't try to take advantage on some level is ignorant im0.. but again it might have been because I've seen it on rather low level aswell as high level...

Hope that is satisfying enough.

Edit. Also you might think about youth differently than me.. the information I heard from the friend is during his late teens so well still youth in my "sports" terms.
I also want to note that people underestimate doping in African nations.. alot!! even in my little country doping is rather normal...

 

[JimmyFingers]

I already wrote about this in the SKY thread during the tour, but people just disregard it saying "why would he ever dope thats not normal"

I obviously can't get my friend to make a statement official "ever heard about anyone doing that" but I mean.. I find it odd that people think all starts "that goes for all sports" are just clean.. I can tell you from personal experience that doping is very normal "ofc not hardcore" in clubs on youth level... I've seen a few of my friends take "light doping" if you want to call it that... and we are talking youth football teams here, sure they are elite but its more normal than many like to think.

Its even more fun that the ones defending riders in cycling are often from the same country as the rider in question (nationalism makes blind for many).. those are the sad facts.


We can then argue if alot of the doping in youth are very very light and not harmful at all.. but to think the vast majority in pro sports, don't try to take advantage on some level is ignorant im0.. but again it might have been because I've seen it on rather low level aswell as high level...

Hope that is satisfying enough.

Edit. Also you might think about youth differently than me.. the information I heard from the friend is during his late teens so well still youth in my "sports" terms.
I also want to note that people underestimate doping in African nations.. alot!! even in my little country doping is rather normal...

You go from making a very specific allegation about Froome to, when asked to elborate, a very general, rambling and unsubstantiated innuendo about youth doping. And ask people to join the dots.

I think this forum should make a conscious effort to avoid chinese whispers like this and call it out. It is utter nonsense

 

[The Hitch]

If any team are clean its Sky

For most of the last 20 years I have heartily disliked Man United because they had all the money and all the best players .Its the same here for the majority with Sky they dont like them so they have to believe Sky cheat
The sport in Britain wouldnt survive if Sky were found to be cheats

on the other hand it would boom if they cheated and didnt get caught.

Thats like arguing a rider wouldnt dope because it would suck if they got caught, which is ironically wiggins own defense.

 

[Dr.Sahl]

You go from making a very specific allegation about Froome to, when asked to elborate, a very general, rambling and unsubstantiated innuendo about youth doping. And ask people to join the dots.

I think this forum should make a conscious effort to avoid chinese whispers like this and call it out. It is utter nonsense

I didnt accuse anyone I just told "my opinion" thats what I stated.. then I told about my experience with doping..

This thread lacks any proof about "Brites" "SKY" "Froome" being 100% clean.. its also my experience that when people are confronted with good arguments about them being dirty they tend to disregarding and saying "There is no positive test" "there is no first hand witnesses" Geee Guess where I heard that one before....

 

[The Hitch]

He tossed an unsubstantiated, unlinkable piece of troll bait into forum, in the exact same way that Lance fanboys used to get call out for, around here.

If you look around the media in the uk the general response is that sky are clean because brits would not dope.

The first britain to win a stage at the Tour said that britain would win the tour only when the sport became clean.

In the face of racial supremacy theories like this getting such popular support, i think threads questioning this theory are very much neccesary.

 

[mastersracer]

If you look around the media in the uk the general response is that sky are clean because brits would not dope.

The first britain to win a stage at the Tour said that britain would win the tour only when the sport became clean.

In the face of racial supremacy theories like this getting such popular support, i think threads questioning this theory are very much neccesary.

Does no one ever mention Tom Simpson?

 

[The Hitch]

Does no one ever mention Tom Simpson?

Not really. Seperate from doping when he is mentioned (eg by wiggins or when cav won worlds) he is seen in quite a bright light . Britains great rider from years gone by, 1st ever road champion etc, which does seem to contradict I suppose the idea that brits get less sympathy for doping, though i suppose that could be because he died, or because those drugs werent seen as as bad as modern ones, or simply because it was so long ago.

 

[Cyivel]

This might be a controversial call, but lets not forget controversy creates cash.

I think Chambers is clean right now, obviously there may be residual affects of doping but he does have the drop off from his doped performances that makes me somewhat believe.

Not sure if he has run sub 10 since his ban, if so it is very, very rarely, plus he generally runs 10.1 or above and could only run just above 10 with massive wind assistance in the Olympics.

Thoughts clinic brothers?

 

[ebandit]

true brit

Does no one ever mention Tom Simpson?

or sean yates or david millar or robert millar

the idea that brits would never dope is inconsistent with the truth

if team sky or any other british rider is doping they run the risk of being busted.............if caught they will be banned

no cover ups!

if other parties are conspiring to prevent this let's see the evidence

 

[TubularBills]

If you look around the media in the uk the general response is that sky are clean because brits would not dope.

The first britain to win a stage at the Tour said that britain would win the tour only when the sport became clean.

In the face of racial supremacy theories like this getting such popular support, i think threads questioning this theory are very much neccesary.

 

[Swifty's Cakes]

If you look around the media in the uk the general response is that sky are clean because brits would not dope.

The first britain to win a stage at the Tour said that britain would win the tour only when the sport became clean.

In the face of racial supremacy theories like this getting such popular support, i think threads questioning this theory are very much neccesary.

Completely agree. What is that Thomas Jefferson quote about eternal vigilence? Same thing applies here, if the sport wants to improve its reputation then the riders need to expect constant scrutiny and as british cyclists are currently very sucessful then they should expect the most attention.

 

[gillan1969]

brilliant...the next time i light a rolly and the girlfriend rolls her eyes... i can just say...but.....

 

[bobbins]

or sean yates or david millar or robert millar

the idea that brits would never dope is inconsistent with the truth

if team sky or any other british rider is doping they run the risk of being busted.............if caught they will be banned

no cover ups!

if other parties are conspiring to prevent this let's see the evidence

Very idealistic but who watches the watcher? Not every question or scenario can be answered with Internet links, if things have been covered up they are exactly that, covered up. How are you so sure that they will be banned if they are caught? There is a lot at stake by presenting a clean setup and the large sums involved are maybe enough to make the odd problem 'go away'

This isn't about sky who many already have doubt but more about the BC / sky or other pro team relationships and if it is too close to be transparent.

 

[Darryl Webster]

If you look around the media in the uk the general response is that sky are clean because brits would not dope.

"Performance-enhancing drugs became illegal on 1 June 1965. The first riders to be caught were three amateurs, two Spanish (Luis Santamarina) and one British, who were thrown out of the Milk Race when they tested positive for amphetamines after Professor Arnold Beckett first applied sensitive gas chromatographic techniques to monitor drug abuse"

Us Brits were there cheating as long back as any other nation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

 

[RichWalk]

Not really. Seperate from doping when he is mentioned (eg by wiggins or when cav won worlds) he is seen in quite a bright light . Britains great rider from years gone by, 1st ever road champion etc, which does seem to contradict I suppose the idea that brits get less sympathy for doping, though i suppose that could be because he died, or because those drugs werent seen as as bad as modern ones, or simply because it was so long ago.

The guys I rode with, when Simpson was mentioned, pretty much agreed it was sad and pretty stupid. My own feelings, just sadness really, another victim another 'what could have been'.............

 

[Pandora]

I'm more interested in the join up between the federation and sky and the skeletons around there.

Which skeletons you are talking about? As in skeletons in the closet or as in skeletons on the bikes?

 

[Hawkwood]

"Performance-enhancing drugs became illegal on 1 June 1965. The first riders to be caught were three amateurs, two Spanish (Luis Santamarina) and one British, who were thrown out of the Milk Race when they tested positive for amphetamines after Professor Arnold Beckett first applied sensitive gas chromatographic techniques to monitor drug abuse"

Us Brits were there cheating as long back as any other nation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

Who was the Brit in the 1965 Milk Race? I was aware of the Spanish, but can't find out anything on the Brit. I think the case was covered in one of David Saunders' books, so will have to see whether he named the rider.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Who was the Brit in the 1965 Milk Race? I was aware of the Spanish, but can't find out anything on the Brit. I think the case was covered in one of David Saunders' books, so will have to see whether he named the rider.

I don't know Hawk. Post up if ya find out

 

[sniper]

Walsh on Wiggins:

"Bradley Wiggins is the patron of the Tour and the whole sport. As the winner, he is the spiritual and almost moral leader of the peloton. As an anti-doping Tour winner, I would expect Bradley to say this (i.e. USADA's actions) is good for the sport … we want the guys who cheated to be outed, but there is not a lot of that coming from the sport and that makes me wonder if they are truly committed to cleaning themselves up."

http://m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/...-doping-whistleblowers?cat=sport&type=article

 

[LauraLyn]

Sky are clean. Why is that so unbelieveable?

Its not like the US Postal days because a lot of the peloton is now clean. for one Millar is definitely clean, yes? then how is he still competitive even though he's probably a bit past his best. The reason Sky are so dull is exactly because they are clean, and therefore 'human'.

A clean Millar at 36 would not have one a stage of the tour in Lance's era.

Wiggins in The Guardian on Friday morning, 13 July: "I don't care what people say, the attitude to doping in the UK is different to in Italy or France maybe, where a rider like Richard Virenque can dope, be caught, be banned, come back and be a national hero."

Wiggins to a news conference on Friday afternoon, 13 July, after David Millar wins the 12 stage of the TdF: "David Millar is a national hero."

Read the Wiggins sickening blog in The Guardian of 13 July. He does not say a word against doping. He only says what would happen if he was caught. Reads just like Floyd Landis or Lance Armstrong before being caught.

If you really believe Wiggins won this year's tour clean and Sky wasn't doping, then watch this interview: http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozone/MG_Tour/MG_vive_le_velo/Tour2012_dag_1/1.1374958

Doping is more rampant in professional cycling now than ever before. UCI and the media are all complicit.

 

[Benotti69]

Wiggins in The Guardian on Friday morning, 13 July: "I don't care what people say, the attitude to doping in the UK is different to in Italy or France maybe, where a rider like Richard Virenque can dope, be caught, be banned, come back and be a national hero."

Wiggins to a news conference on Friday afternoon, 13 July, after David Millar wins the 12 stage of the TdF: "David Millar is a national hero."

Read the Wiggins sickening blog in The Guardian of 13 July. He does not say a word against doping. He only says what would happen if he was caught. Reads just like Floyd Landis or Lance Armstrong before being caught.

If you really believe Wiggins won this year's tour clean and Sky wasn't doping, then watch this interview: http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozone/MG_Tour/MG_vive_le_velo/Tour2012_dag_1/1.1374958

Doping is more rampant in professional cycling now than ever before. UCI and the media are all complicit.

Interestingly Wiggins was wrong about Virenque. He was not a national hero. He was cheered on the TdF by fans at the roadside but the average French person thought Virenque was a doper and cheat. They did a poll in France and Virenque was second to LePen on the hated list.

Wiggins doing the false facts BS.

 

[Mr.38%]

If you really believe Wiggins won this year's tour clean and Sky wasn't doping, then watch this interview: http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozone/MG_Tour/MG_vive_le_velo/Tour2012_dag_1/1.1374958

I saw this one live on TV and was on the floor laughing about the moderator's final comment: "The team guy who ended the interview was Dario Cioni, a former pro cyclist, but not a great one, who is aggrandizing himself a little bit."

Cioni was attested a natural high hematocrit btw.

Vive le Velo is highly recommended and available via the net as well.

 

[the big ring]

Interestingly Wiggins was wrong about Virenque. He was not a national hero. He was cheered on the TdF by fans at the roadside but the average French person thought Virenque was a doper and cheat. They did a poll in France and Virenque was second to LePen on the hated list.

Wiggins doing the false facts BS.

Here's a fact straight from a French woman I know very well. She does not / did not follow cycling, still doesn't really. When I mention Virenque - she knows straight away his name, he was a popular and successful cycling and that he got done for doping during the Festina affair. I am guessing the poll was not conducted in Carqueiranne - "he's from my area" is what she said.

This is huge for me. I don't have that level of detail on him (ie the Festina link on tap, where he's from), and I do follow cycling and race competitively.

He comes from the same area as she does, so the feeling is neutral, but if you're from anywhere else in France, the feeling is negative towards him.

Wiggins was with Cofidis and other French teams. I am pretty sure he is expressing the French peloton opinion at the time, in which he was immersed, and not the public's opinion, from which he would have been insulated for the most part.

Either way, IMO it's pure, unadulterated spin.

 

[Hawkwood]

I don't know Hawk. Post up if ya find out

I'm pretty sure it was in the Saunders book `Cycling in the Sixties', but I've checked and I haven't got a copy. Saunders mentioned that he saw one of the Spanish riders taking a pee and was suspicious because he knew there was a rumour amongst the riders that you could dilute the drugs by drinking water. Professor Arnold Beckett and his team developed the test for ampthetamines that caught the riders in the 1965 Milk Race. One of Beckett's papers is here: http://bjsportmed.com/content/12/4/185.full.pdf

Beckett was based in King's College, and their website has a brief biog of him, it states `During the 1965 ‘Milk Race’, a UK based cycling event, Beckett was invited to carry out tests on the contestants. The results showed that members of one team had been using stimulants and they were disqualified.' This fits in with what I read in the Saunders book, that is it was some Spanish riders who were thrown out.