Cleanest tour de france?

[auscyclefan94]

Just wondering your thoughts on which tour was the cleanest tour of them all. Not just on who most positives but if the gc guys that year were clean(er)?

 

[BroDeal]

Just wondering your thoughts on which tour was the cleanest tour of them all. Not just on who most positives but if the gc guys that year were clean(er)?

Anytime before blood manipulation became required should be considered much cleaner. Even though the riders may have been juiced to the gills with steroids, a clean rider could probably have had a chance. The same argument would be even more valid for the pre-steroid era, even though most riders were high on amphetamines.

1990 = the last year a clean(ish) rider could win the TdF.

 

[auscyclefan94]

of the past decade, probably 2008. Even though their were 4 public positives during the tour. i think we saw some clean(er) riders rise to the top. dirtiest in my book of the past decade would have to be 2003. let me give you some names of people who have tested positive since or before then. i may miss a few armstrong, beltran, heras, landis, beloki, jachse, serrano, botero, aldag, kessler, kloden, viokourov, zabel, mancebo, garcia acosta, menchov, petrov, boogerd, simoni, di luca, millar, vassuer, basso, pettachi, guttierez, virenque, moreau, ullrich, brandt, brochard, astarloza, garzelli, mazzoleni, etxererberria, mayo, bolts, dufaux, caucchioli,

that's all i can find. it was a dirty tour.

 

[pedaling squares]

of the past decade, probably 2008. Even though their were 4 public positives during the tour. i think we saw some clean(er) riders rise to the top. dirtiest in my book of the past decade would have to be 2003. let me give you some names of people who have tested positive since or before then. i may miss a few armstrong, beltran, heras, landis, beloki, jachse, serrano, botero, aldag, kessler, kloden, viokourov, zabel, mancebo, garcia acosta, menchov, petrov, boogerd, simoni, di luca, millar, vassuer, basso, pettachi, guttierez, virenque, moreau, ullrich, brandt, brochard, astarloza, garzelli, mazzoleni, etxererberria, mayo, bolts, dufaux, caucchioli,

that's all i can find. it was a dirty tour.

To answer your original question, I have no idea. Doping in one form or another has been around since long before my birth. I would estimate that the pre-EPO tours would be the "cleanest" insofar as a very good rider who didn't take corticosteroids et al still had a chance at victory.

2008 - I don't know if it was dramatically cleaner, but at least the guys who were on CERA stood out like sore thumbs. I remember watching Ricco ride away with one stage and just laughing at the TV and shaking my head. My living room must have been like the TDF media room when Lance stormed Sestrieres.

Some of the riders on your list have no positive tests, but pretty obvious links to blood doping so your point remains valid.

 

[Anonymous]

1903......

 

[ak-zaaf]

1903......

One year later half the peloton took the train. There were probably some early adapters on 'that program' in '03

 

[DavidVilla7]

1990 = the last year a clean(ish) rider could win the TdF.

what? Sorry, but contador is probably the cleanest rider you can find.

 

[Anonymous]

what? Sorry, but contador is probably the cleanest rider you can find.

i thought that was valverde?

 

[issoisso]

what? Sorry, but contador is probably the cleanest rider you can find.

 

[DavidVilla7]

i thought that was valverde?

haha, you think a lot! Did I said that?
No El Imbatido Valverde used, we all know that in spain. I say used!

 

[Anonymous]

haha, you think a lot! Did I said that?
No El Imbatido Valverde used, we all know that in spain. I say used!

so hes clean now...?

cleaner than contador.. you have different levels of clean..

Genius.. i love it..

 

[DavidVilla7]

omg, you guys think you are funny? or what?
Everyone who thinks contador is doped, please never watch cycling again.
You are a shame for the sport, at least do as if you don't know.
Dope what?

I don't know if you realise, but if contador turns out to be doped the sport is officcialy dead! Oh it's already
No it's not, at least not like that.


oh btw, drama makes money

 

[Anonymous]

omg, you guys think you are funny? or what?
Everyone who thinks contador is doped, please never watch cycling again.
You are a shame for the sport, at least do as if you don't know.
Dope what?

ok.. thats funnier than the confused orange..

 

[Cogombre]

omg, you guys think you are funny? or what?
Everyone who thinks contador is doped, please never watch cycling again.You are a shame for the sport, at least do as if you don't know.
Dope what?

If don't know who you are, but surely you haven't authority enough to tell me what sport can I watch? It's evident that you and me have a different sense of what's a shame for the sport. Valverde still riding is a shame for the sport to me, for instance.

I don't know if you realise, but if contador turns out to be doped the sport is officcialy dead! Oh it's already
No it's not, at least not like that.

It'd be dead for you. It wouldn't have any effect at all for me beyond the shock of the first day.

 

[BroDeal]

omg, you guys think you are funny? or what?
Everyone who thinks contador is doped, please never watch cycling again.
You are a shame for the sport, at least do as if you don't know.
Dope what?

I don't know if you realise, but if contador turns out to be doped the sport is officcialy dead! Oh it's already
No it's not, at least not like that.

Uh-huh. Contador is clean. He rode on a team with a teamwide doping program but they forgot to mention to him what everyone else was doing. They kept it a secret, and he never wondered why all his teammates had gynocology problems. After that team was exposed, he ended up at a team run by a man who consumed so much of team ONCE's drugs that he was nicknamed the Hog. It is all a coincidence really. It could happen to anyone.

 

[Anonymous]

Uh-huh. Contador is clean. He rode on a team with a teamwide doping program but they forgot to mention to him what everyone else was doing. They kept it a secret, and he never wondered why all his teammates had gynocology problems. After that team was exposed, he ended up at a team run by a man who consumed so much of team ONCE's drugs that he was nicknamed the Hog. It is all a coincidence really. It could happen to anyone.

thats all circumstantial.... we want proof

(and dont go mentioning peurto.. AC could relate to anyone)

 

[BroDeal]

thats all circumstantial.... we want proof

Ayup. It's circumstantial. So is dominating a sport immersed in doping. Sometimes an individual comes along--he may have a heart the size of The Great Pumpkin--who is so superior to everyone else than he does not need the whopping increase in performance that doping gives. Just ask John Holmes.

Being on John Gotti's crew does mean the person is in the mafia. It could be someone who just liked Italian suits and was at the dry cleaners every time the group was planning its crimes. These things happen all the time.

 

[tubularglue]

 

[Escarabajo]

...
. let me give you some names of people who have tested positive since or before then. i may miss a few armstrong, beltran, heras, landis, beloki, jachse, serrano, botero, aldag, kessler, kloden, viokourov, zabel, mancebo, garcia acosta, menchov, petrov, boogerd, simoni, di luca, millar, vassuer, basso, pettachi, guttierez, virenque, moreau, ullrich, brandt, brochard, astarloza, garzelli, mazzoleni, etxererberria, mayo, bolts, dufaux, caucchioli,

that's all i can find. it was a dirty tour.

Most of those riders never tested positive. Just to clarify. There is some evidence that they were doping but never tested positive.

 

[Ferminal]

what? Sorry, but contador is probably the cleanest rider you can find.

I think we can all agree that '07 was definitely the cleanest tour on record.

 

[Anonymous]

Hilarious, but so obviously photoshopped...

Who has a gravestone on their front lawn, half of it crossing over their footpath?

Back on topic about cleanest tour - no idea, but the argument for 2008 holds. Other than the 3-4 CERA guys, having Sastre, Evans, VDV so high up on GC suggests a cleanish tour

 

[Galic Ho]

One year later half the peloton took the train. There were probably some early adapters on 'that program' in '03

Dammit, dimspace and Ak-Zaaf both beat me to it. 1903 and 1904. Heck everyone back then took trains and cars when the going got tough. Fixed gears, limited water, fix your own bike and mechanical faults. Happened at the Olympics in 1904, marathon winner was found to have taken a lift in a car for 10kms. Maybe people learnt a thing or two from cycling and figured they'd copy a done and dusted mechanism.

Hhhhmmmmmnnnn, where is this heading. Oh, yeah, 1910 or there abouts and amphetamines are being experimented with because the suits running le Tour thought that to sell papers one had to kill the riders. The ideal Tour to Henri de Grange, was one where only one rider made it to Paris. Endemic stupidity. Unfortunately the same kind of thinking that resulted in doping becoming prevalent in pro cycling is now being used to fight it. It won't work and I fear words along the lines of "We have a clean Tour" or "Nobody is doping" is just spin to confuse the naive and easily manipulated amongst the public. God help us all.

Counter argument to 2008. Wow, Evans, Sastre and VDV were all up high. Yeah Evans was in the top ten since 2005, his debut. Sastre made the podium in 2006 and Evans a year later in 2007. Clean years? Nice try mountain goat but using association with less than expected performances proves nothing. Very few on this forum believe any of those three are clean. Those who do need to answer a question or two. Firstly is said rider your favourite pro-cyclist? That will clear most of the opinions up nice and quickly. Remember the retesting by the LNDD 3 months back? 2008 was not even close to clean. The Giro was dirty and Contador almost lost a grand tour to Ricco who along with Sella, smacked the Spaniard all through the Dolomites and Alps. The Tour was no different, just that some were caught and others were not. Clean...far from it. Anyone remember Vande Velde's pleas and sincerity? Yes if I was there and clean, I too could have gone with Ricco and Carlos. Not good enough champ.

 

[karlboss]

I think this argument again goes to how good can you be without doping. Someone like Evans came on to the scene and was good, very good and since seems to have improved a little each year. In 2006 he went from 10th to 5th was it sure once OP and LA retiring took the top 5 out. He didn't necessarily leap frog anyone. Then to 2007 Floyd's gone pereiro can't pull any heroics and he's contending with sastre and kloden again, but in a year more favoured for time trialists and vino takes kloeden out, all of a sudden your second. Really he maybe exactly the same rider he was 4 years ago, just differences in course and who else is around.

All of this means nothing to you if you believe the top 10 is dirty, but then I ask how far down does it go? noone who rides the tour? top 100?

 

[auscyclefan94]

Most of those riders never tested positive. Just to clarify. There is some evidence that they were doping but never tested positive.

sorry, i should clarify by saying tested positive AND have had a high level of evidential suspicion around them

 

[auscyclefan94]

Dammit, dimspace and Ak-Zaaf both beat me to it. 1903 and 1904. Heck everyone back then took trains and cars when the going got tough. Fixed gears, limited water, fix your own bike and mechanical faults. Happened at the Olympics in 1904, marathon winner was found to have taken a lift in a car for 10kms. Maybe people learnt a thing or two from cycling and figured they'd copy a done and dusted mechanism.

Hhhhmmmmmnnnn, where is this heading. Oh, yeah, 1910 or there abouts and amphetamines are being experimented with because the suits running le Tour thought that to sell papers one had to kill the riders. The ideal Tour to Henri de Grange, was one where only one rider made it to Paris. Endemic stupidity. Unfortunately the same kind of thinking that resulted in doping becoming prevalent in pro cycling is now being used to fight it. It won't work and I fear words along the lines of "We have a clean Tour" or "Nobody is doping" is just spin to confuse the naive and easily manipulated amongst the public. God help us all.

Counter argument to 2008. Wow, Evans, Sastre and VDV were all up high. Yeah Evans was in the top ten since 2005, his debut. Sastre made the podium in 2006 and Evans a year later in 2007. Clean years? Nice try mountain goat but using association with less than expected performances proves nothing. Very few on this forum believe any of those three are clean. Those who do need to answer a question or two. Firstly is said rider your favourite pro-cyclist? That will clear most of the opinions up nice and quickly. Remember the retesting by the LNDD 3 months back? 2008 was not even close to clean. The Giro was dirty and Contador almost lost a grand tour to Ricco who along with Sella, smacked the Spaniard all through the Dolomites and Alps. The Tour was no different, just that some were caught and others were not. Clean...far from it. Anyone remember Vande Velde's pleas and sincerity? Yes if I was there and clean, I too could have gone with Ricco and Carlos. Not good enough champ.

Evans, sastre and vandevelde are riders who people on this forum think are clean(er) the most. Not saying they are but it seems that if they are they were the dragged not the dragers if you get what i'm saying.