Clenbuterol threshold? Pros and Cons

[Merckx index]

Second, there is no need to carry around plastic bags of the food you ate. If you test positive for contaminated meat, you should be able to go back to where ever you got the meat and any random sample should also test positive. If that doesn't happen, then you must be one seriously unlucky person to have eaten the only piece of contaminated meat.

I’m not going to argue Bert’s case with you, because as I said before, I mostly agree with you. But I’m not so sure that in third world countries the chain of custody is as transparent as you make it out to be. If random meat samples from a town of Mexico vary widely in their CB contamination, then it may be that the butchers have multiple sources and/or the sources themselves vary widely in comtamination levels.

It actually would be very hard to do because it is likely you would have to synthesize the excreted metabolized molecule of clenbuterol as well and then plant it. And second, no lawyer would do this unless they wanted to get disbarred and go to jail.

The latter argument can easily be dismissed. The rider or his medical advisor would do the spiking, not the lawyer. The former argument is a better point (not the excreted metabolite, but any metabolites produced from enzymatic action on CB in specific tissues), but of course it would require a whole new validated testing system in place. I doubt that the metabolite profile of CB in muscle is even well known, and it would certainly change over time. In any case, there would have to be a specific criterion that would set what is a possible ratio of CB to some metabolite. They don’t test for these other metabolites now, and it would not be a quick or simple matter to set up a test like this. I really can’t see WADA doing it just to guard against spiking, when there are other ways to get at the underlying problem.

 

[TERMINATOR]

Lol, there are lots of cyclists that weren't banned after testing positive. Some of them tested positive for Clenbuterol. These "stupid" attorneys got the likes of Tom Boonen free to ride the Tour. Yeah, so inexperienced

The only reason why you think it's stupid for him to fight this case is because you're **** hurt and only care about doping and not the sport. Just look at the time you made your account and all your posts go about one person lol. Did Contador kill your mom or something?

I wasn't referring to cyclists who skated because of recreational drugs that were taken outside of competition. If you knew the WADA Code like I do, you would also know that cocaine is only banned in competition and Boonen skated only because he tested positive out of competition. In fact, Boonen never even had a doping case brought over his cocaine positive. You seem to be confusing a real criminal court case in Belgium with the WADA doping process. They have nothing to do with each other.

But don't let the actual facts get in the way of your condescending lecture to me about the implications of doping cases as it relates to Clenbutador's pending appeal before CAS.

And any cyclist who has skated due to a positive analytical test has done so only because their corrupt national federation exonerated them and the UCI and WADA has to pick its battles carefully due to limited funding. You won't be able to show me any CAS precedent that shows they allowed an analytical positive to skate. You don't seem to be cognizant of these distinctions.

And although you might find one or two cases out of thousands that went to CAS and were exonerated based on extremely unusual evidence (none of which Clebutodor can show), the actual percentage of cases involving analytical positives that are appealed to CAS and result in a suspension is something like 99.93%.

I'm afraid Clenbutador has left the protected enclave of the Spanish bullsh*t ring and wondered into the real court of sport: CAS. Like you, Clenbutador and his stupid lawyers think they are gonna pass their BS "cut of meat from the butcher" story off to real lawyers..lawyers who don't even know what the fvck a Vuelta is.

You seem to group these corrupt national federation decisions involving ping pong players and all this other nonsense with Clenbutador's case that is now before CAS.

Clenbutador is going to CAS. That means he will lose. He will get 2 years.

Clenbutador is about to find out the same thing Valverde and Landis and Hamilton found out....CAS isn't comprised of arbitrators who are cycling tifosi and paint their names on the asphalt leading up to Alpe d'Huez.

 

[biopass]

having in consideration that AC has allergy issues, It wouldn't make sense for him to use CLen to resolved his "breathing issues" rather than having a TUE(which I believe he has BTW). as I wrote - I'm not inclined exclusively on AC's case- the Clen issue has broaden questions regarding its threshold, since minuscule amounts aren't useful to enhance performance-as you described- & can appear in doping tests by involuntary ingestion-that's the key- So if a limit is set-it will provide a permanent solution to the problem-rather than coming up with lame explanations/excuses on how "accidentally" got inside the athlete's system.

Those minuscule amounts of EPO that is found when a riders tests positive isnt exactly performance enhacing either. Yet there is no threshold for EPO.

 

[GJB123]

I wasn't referring to cyclists who skated because of recreational drugs that were taken outside of competition. If you knew the WADA Code like I do, you would also know that cocaine is only banned in competition and Boonen skated only because he tested positive out of competition. In fact, Boonen never even had a doping case brought over his cocaine positive. You seem to be confusing a real criminal court case in Belgium with the WADA doping process. They have nothing to do with each other.

But don't let the actual facts get in the way of your condescending lecture to me about the implications of doping cases as it relates to Clenbutador's pending appeal before CAS.

And any cyclist who has skated due to a positive analytical test has done so only because their corrupt national federation exonerated them and the UCI and WADA has to pick its battles carefully due to limited funding. You won't be able to show me any CAS precedent that shows they allowed an analytical positive to skate. You don't seem to be cognizant of these distinctions.

And although you might find one or two cases out of thousands that went to CAS and were exonerated based on extremely unusual evidence (none of which Clebutodor can show), the actual percentage of cases involving analytical positives that are appealed to CAS and result in a suspension is something like 99.93%.

I'm afraid Clenbutador has left the protected enclave of the Spanish bullsh*t ring and wondered into the real court of sport: CAS. Like you, Clenbutador and his stupid lawyers think they are gonna pass their BS "cut of meat from the butcher" story off to real lawyers..lawyers who don't even know what the fvck a Vuelta is.

You seem to group these corrupt national federation decisions involving ping pong players and all this other nonsense with Clenbutador's case that is now before CAS.

Clenbutador is going to CAS. That means he will lose. He will get 2 years.

Clenbutador is about to find out the same thing Valverde and Landis and Hamilton found out....CAS isn't comprised of arbitrators who are cycling tifosi and paint their names on the asphalt leading up to Alpe d'Huez.

It is funny to see how often you feel people are condescending to you, yet you yourself act or are as obtuse and condescending as possible.

Regards
GJ

 

[TERMINATOR]

It is funny to see how often you feel people are condescending to you, yet you yourself act or are as obtuse and condescending as possible.

Regards
GJ

Yeah, because I have my facts right and they don't! You people treat facts like it's some kind of opinion. You need to start paying attention.

The guy who I was responding to...read his initial post. He was making all sorts of claims that were flat out wrong. I had to correct him.

The guy was giving me a lecture about the Boonen case and he didn't even recognize the fact that Boonen didn't have a doping case brought against him! It's not considered a doping violation to test positive for cocaine outside of competition (only during a race).

And none of the cases he cited were CAS precedents. They were all typical corrupt national federations with no expertise acting the way corrupt national federations with no expertise do. WADA knows those cases are 'junk' and most of them they don't appeal, not because they can't get them overturned, but rather because they involve small-time athletes and they only want to focus on the heavy hitters. WADA and the UCI have a limited budget, and will only appeal the big cases.

He then tried to convince me that Contador's case was going to be just like all those other cyclists who got off with clenbuterol positives, failing to realize Contador's case is totally different.... he is going to the real court - CAS. None of those other cases did (except for Jessica Hardy's, whose 1 year suspension was upheld by CAS. And guess what? Hardy was able to show the supplement she ingested tested positive for clenbuterol... and she was still suspended for 1 year!!).

The actual record against athletes who appeal to CAS in an analytical positive is something like 2,419 found guilty and 14 found not guilty.

And those 14 had all sorts of special circumstances - none of which Contador has. Contador couldn't even find a single positive sample 'cut of meat' from the butcher in question, whereas WADA tested dozens of samples and found nothing.

Trust me, Contador is getting 2 years. There is no doubt in my mind. Him and his circle-jerk lawyers are typical clueless athlete entourages. Their defense will be laughed at by CAS. The guy has NO evidence of contamination. It's just a story!

He also can't show a negative hair sample....that says something to me. Surely Clenbutador and his dumb lawyers know that the German ping pong player was able to show his hair tested negative for clenbuterol, no?

How come Contador and his supposed legal experts didn't do a hair sample test...especially since they knew it helped exonerate an athlete who tested positive for the very same drug as their client?

I'll tell you why...because they DID test his hair and it tested positive. That's why. And they DID test the meat. And it all tested negative..just like WADA found out.

How do you like them fvcking apples.

And that's why the guy's case is a bunch of nonsense and silly lawyering that will never pass the laugh test in front of real lawyers who don't toast champagne over stage wins by El Pistolero at the Tour like the bullfighting cowards on RFEC. You know who the RFEC is, right....they're the same group of supposed "impartial experts" that didn't find a DNA match of Valverde's blood with a bag of evidence in Operacion Puerto to be compelling evidence. CAS set Valverde and his stupid legal team straight.

RFEC is the OJ Simpson jury of cycling...dumb as a sack of rocks and completely partial to their lover boy defendant. They may as well have Antonio Banderas sitting on a doping case involving Penelope Cruz.

You people better start paying attention.