CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

[macbindle]

You are a very good at completely failing to understand somebody's post and turning it right around so that you can point your finger.

Take a deeeeep breath and go back and have another go at reading yaco's post.

 

[53*11]

Re:

You are a very good at completely failing to understand somebody's post and turning it right around so that you can point your finger.

Take a deeeeep breath and go back and have another go at reading yaco's post.

thanks ! its very easy when this is the ultimate logical conclusion to what he posted.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Those desperately clinging to the hope of a DCMS II to end their agony over seeing Sky surviving: hold your breath.

ghhghghgh

however damning and critical the DCMS report was on sky, it was a 1 week story at best; you two seriously think any posters, even here in the clinic are losing sleep over a possible DCMS II?? sky/DB's demise or survival is more likely to be decided in Disneys/other boardroom rather than at DCMS.
as i see it, the posters who are in serious denial & agony are the serial sky defenders whose blind denial and contortions of logic, (in the face of clear and open abuse of the rules and their own often stated ethics) are funny/tragic in equal proportions.

I am struggling to see how you can defend the DCMS report when it was politicians who directly funded BC and indirectly funded Sky - These politicians have shown a lack of oversight in ensuring they were funding programs that followed the rules of the sport - Collins and his ilk are hypocrites of the highest order.

ahh now i understand!! it wasnt skys fault at all, it was all the politicians fault, they ordered the testosterone, injected their riders, applied for TUEs, lied to their funders, fans and press, held kenalog training camps, hired dodgy doctors, forgot about their no needle policy, held a number of different medical records. its all clear now!

At the end of the day the report is about politician's grandstanding - They are the one's that found the Olympic Medal Program through the lottery - They are the ultimate authority who should take responsibility for what happened at British Cycling - So you have politicians who fund sporting organisations yet provide no oversight.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Those desperately clinging to the hope of a DCMS II to end their agony over seeing Sky surviving: hold your breath.

ghhghghgh

however damning and critical the DCMS report was on sky, it was a 1 week story at best; you two seriously think any posters, even here in the clinic are losing sleep over a possible DCMS II?? sky/DB's demise or survival is more likely to be decided in Disneys/other boardroom rather than at DCMS.
as i see it, the posters who are in serious denial & agony are the serial sky defenders whose blind denial and contortions of logic, (in the face of clear and open abuse of the rules and their own often stated ethics) are funny/tragic in equal proportions.

I am struggling to see how you can defend the DCMS report when it was politicians who directly funded BC and indirectly funded Sky - These politicians have shown a lack of oversight in ensuring they were funding programs that followed the rules of the sport - Collins and his ilk are hypocrites of the highest order.

You are putting the cart before the horse. The purpose of select committees is to ensure the department is doing it's job properly. You've seen the report...it makes recommendations, which in turn are to steer the department and the legislature in the direction of better mansgement of modern sport.

The whole question of rules being broken is moot. It is not cut and dried for if it were Sky would already be gone. What the report suggests is that Sky are an unethical team, and the DCMS do not view it as acceptable. A view which most of us here share.

My post is not stating RULES have been broken - It's showing that ultimately politician's fund organisations like BC, so they will take the backslaps when MEDALS are won, but take no responsibility when there are problems - And the silly public fail to see this issue.

 

[macbindle]

Perhaps you didn't realise the DCMS consists of politicians?

Can you give me an example of a politician involved in directing funds to BC taking credit for medals?

 

[Parker]

Re:

Perhaps you didn't realise the DCMS consists of politicians?

Can you give me an example of a politician involved in directing funds to BC taking credit for medals?

They don't take credit, but they like to associate themselves with sporting success, basking in the reflected glory. This is pretty standard for all governments. It's why they invest in sport.

 

[53*11]

Re: Re:

[quote="



however damning and critical the DCMS report was on sky, it was a 1 week story at best; you two seriously think any posters, even here in the clinic are losing sleep over a possible DCMS II?? sky/DB's demise or survival is more likely to be decided in Disneys/other boardroom rather than at DCMS.
as i see it, the posters who are in serious denial & agony are the serial sky defenders whose blind denial and contortions of logic, (in the face of clear and open abuse of the rules and their own often stated ethics) are funny/tragic in equal proportions.

ahh now i understand!! it wasnt skys fault at all, it was all the politicians fault, they ordered the testosterone, injected their riders, applied for TUEs, lied to their funders, fans and press, held kenalog training camps, hired dodgy doctors, forgot about their no needle policy, held a number of different medical records. its all clear now!

At the end of the day the report is about politician's grandstanding - They are the one through lottery money that found the Olympic Medal Program - They are the ultimate authority who should take responsibility for what happened at British Cycling - So you have politicians who fund sporting organisations yet provide no oversight.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2236467#p2236467

i understand your point but i think its misplaced; do you really think that UK MPs can possiblydo a better job of oversight of dodgy teams when the regulators with actual responsibility and real power, UCI/WADA, regularly fail to detect and keep track of the dopers?!

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

[quote="



however damning and critical the DCMS report was on sky, it was a 1 week story at best; you two seriously think any posters, even here in the clinic are losing sleep over a possible DCMS II?? sky/DB's demise or survival is more likely to be decided in Disneys/other boardroom rather than at DCMS.
as i see it, the posters who are in serious denial & agony are the serial sky defenders whose blind denial and contortions of logic, (in the face of clear and open abuse of the rules and their own often stated ethics) are funny/tragic in equal proportions.

ahh now i understand!! it wasnt skys fault at all, it was all the politicians fault, they ordered the testosterone, injected their riders, applied for TUEs, lied to their funders, fans and press, held kenalog training camps, hired dodgy doctors, forgot about their no needle policy, held a number of different medical records. its all clear now!

At the end of the day the report is about politician's grandstanding - They are the one through lottery money that found the Olympic Medal Program - They are the ultimate authority who should take responsibility for what happened at British Cycling - So you have politicians who fund sporting organisations yet provide no oversight.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2236467#p2236467

i understand your point but i think its misplaced; do you really think that UK MPs can possiblydo a better job of oversight of dodgy teams when the regulators with actual responsibility and real power, UCI/WADA, regularly fail to detect and keep track of the dopers?!

The point is why have politicians stumbled across this issue now and not 10 or 20 years ago ?

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

The point is why have politicians stumbled across this issue now and not 10 or 20 years ago ?

It's not quite 20 years - 14 only, but 20 is back to before Festina, when few cared - but the Culture, Media & Sport committee does have a long history banging this drum.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

The point is why have politicians stumbled across this issue now and not 10 or 20 years ago ?

It's not quite 20 years - 14 only, but 20 is back to before Festina, when few cared - but the Culture, Media & Sport committee does have a long history banging this drum.

Thanks for the informative link - Possibly we can deduce the politicians don't practice what they preach.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

The point is why have politicians stumbled across this issue now and not 10 or 20 years ago ?

It's not quite 20 years - 14 only, but 20 is back to before Festina, when few cared - but the Culture, Media & Sport committee does have a long history banging this drum.

Thanks for the informative link - Possibly we can deduce the politicians don't practice what they preach.

You will deduce whatever suits your prejudices.

 

[53*11]

Re: Re:

[/url]"]

[quote="



however damning and critical the DCMS report was on sky, it was a 1 week story at best; you two seriously think any posters, even here in the clinic are losing sleep over a possible DCMS II?? sky/DB's demise or survival is more likely to be decided in Disneys/other boardroom rather than at DCMS.
as i see it, the posters who are in serious denial & agony are the serial sky defenders whose blind denial and contortions of logic, (in the face of clear and open abuse of the rules and their own often stated ethics) are funny/tragic in equal proportions.

ahh now i understand!! it wasnt skys fault at all, it was all the politicians fault, they ordered the testosterone, injected their riders, applied for TUEs, lied to their funders, fans and press, held kenalog training camps, hired dodgy doctors, forgot about their no needle policy, held a number of different medical records. its all clear now!

At the end of the day the report is about politician's grandstanding - They are the one through lottery money that found the Olympic Medal Program - They are the ultimate authority who should take responsibility for what happened at British Cycling - So you have politicians who fund sporting organisations yet provide no oversight.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2236467#p2236467

i understand your point but i think its misplaced; do you really think that UK MPs can possiblydo a better job of oversight of dodgy teams when the regulators with actual responsibility and real power, UCI/WADA, regularly fail to detect and keep track of the dopers?![/quote]

The point is why have politicians stumbled across this issue now and not 10 or 20 years ago ?[/quote]

no the point is your deflection tactics; you are arguing the DCMS were at fault for funding and not controlling BC/sky; not the content of the criticism of their report. you could just as easily argue why are committees not investigating football, rugby, athletics, tennis to the same degree; its a different,circular argument

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

[/url]"]

[quote="



however damning and critical the DCMS report was on sky, it was a 1 week story at best; you two seriously think any posters, even here in the clinic are losing sleep over a possible DCMS II?? sky/DB's demise or survival is more likely to be decided in Disneys/other boardroom rather than at DCMS.
as i see it, the posters who are in serious denial & agony are the serial sky defenders whose blind denial and contortions of logic, (in the face of clear and open abuse of the rules and their own often stated ethics) are funny/tragic in equal proportions.

ahh now i understand!! it wasnt skys fault at all, it was all the politicians fault, they ordered the testosterone, injected their riders, applied for TUEs, lied to their funders, fans and press, held kenalog training camps, hired dodgy doctors, forgot about their no needle policy, held a number of different medical records. its all clear now!

At the end of the day the report is about politician's grandstanding - They are the one through lottery money that found the Olympic Medal Program - They are the ultimate authority who should take responsibility for what happened at British Cycling - So you have politicians who fund sporting organisations yet provide no oversight.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2236467#p2236467

i understand your point but i think its misplaced; do you really think that UK MPs can possiblydo a better job of oversight of dodgy teams when the regulators with actual responsibility and real power, UCI/WADA, regularly fail to detect and keep track of the dopers?!

The point is why have politicians stumbled across this issue now and not 10 or 20 years ago ?[/quote]

no the point is your deflection tactics; you are arguing the DCMS were at fault for funding and not controlling BC/sky; not the content of the criticism of their report. you could just as easily argue why are committees not investigating football, rugby, athletics, tennis to the same degree; its a different,circular argument[/quote]

The DCMS cover a wide portfolio which includes all sport and recreation from the professional to the amateur level and even general fitness/health in the community - To say I'm deflecting from the report fails to acknowledge the systemic ABUSE of the honor's list in British society - It's not so hard for a sportsperson to receive an honour or even a knighthood for their sporting exploits - You need to be trusting to think all these sportspeople who receive honors are CLEAN - Sporting success is richly rewarded by British politicians who will overlook the foibles of athletes, but then grandstand when necessary.

 

[Wiggo's Package]

The DCMS investigation into doping and sport started when the Sunday Times splashed a leaked IAAF report showing a top British athlete had dodgy blood values. One of the MPs used parliamentary privilege to say (or make very obvious, can't remember) that athlete was Paula Radcliffe

Then the Wiggo's jiffybag saga blew up and the MPs added that to their remit. Partly because it soon became apparent that UKAD were incapable of running an effective investigation

Mo Farah's dodgy injections and Dan Stevens' allegations also got an airing. Seb Coe played the shifty politician card perfectly

 

[thehog]

Re:

The DCMS investigation into doping and sport started when the Sunday Times splashed a leaked IAAF report showing a top British athlete had dodgy blood values. One of the MPs used parliamentary privilege to say (or make very obvious, can't remember) that athlete was Paula Radcliffe

Then the Wiggo's jiffybag saga blew up and the MPs added that to their remit. Partly because it soon became apparent that UKAD were incapable of running an effective investigation

Mo Farah's dodgy injections and Dan Stevens' allegations also got an airing. Seb Coe played the shifty politician card perfectly

It actually started with the FA and kept uncovering more and more British dodgy behavior

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re: Re:

The DCMS investigation into doping and sport started when the Sunday Times splashed a leaked IAAF report showing a top British athlete had dodgy blood values. One of the MPs used parliamentary privilege to say (or make very obvious, can't remember) that athlete was Paula Radcliffe

Then the Wiggo's jiffybag saga blew up and the MPs added that to their remit. Partly because it soon became apparent that UKAD were incapable of running an effective investigation

Mo Farah's dodgy injections and Dan Stevens' allegations also got an airing. Seb Coe played the shifty politician card perfectly

It actually started with the FA and kept uncovering more and more British dodgy behavior

Brits Don't Dope, eh

Not sure about the FA thing though, this is from the DCMS "Combatting Doping in Sport inquiry" webpage:

https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/culture-media-and-sport-committee/inquiries/parliament-2015/blood-doping-15-16/

"Scope of the inquiry

In August the Sunday Times published a series of articles commenting on a database of test results from athletes taken between 2001 and 2012, which its experts argued showed abnormal results for a number of endurance runners.

The Committee explores the allegations (which have been strenuously rebutted by the International Association of Athletics Federations) that the IAAF failed to follow up test results from some prominent athletes which raised suspicions that blood doping had occurred"

 

[samhocking]

The report originated in Aug 2015 because Sunday Times published a series of articles about endurance runners with suspicious blood tests but IAAF wouldn't confirm the results or follow up with any punishments. Fancy Bears server hack and the Daily Mail article on Wiggins was added to this enquiry as Collins saw similar anti-doping rules
administered and policed in cycling as is the case in athletics and decided to investigate how some of the same
issues are addressed in cycling.

 

[thehog]

No wonder Walsh has down his 360. It’s all about to come spilling out...

Collins continues to work on related matters and the MoS can reveal that he continues to gather evidence about the sport's murky past. One witness to that process presented information to Collins, face to face, as recently as last week, naming multiple past and former BC employees with connections to, or knowledge of, historic doping and cover-ups.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-5565823/MPs-question-cycling-chiefs-Jonny-Clay-huge-pay-off.html#ixzz5BNg2Cc4g

 

[Wiggo's Package]

No wonder Walsh has down his 360. It’s all about to come spilling out...

Collins continues to work on related matters and the MoS can reveal that he continues to gather evidence about the sport's murky past. One witness to that process presented information to Collins, face to face, as recently as last week, naming multiple past and former BC employees with connections to, or knowledge of, historic doping and cover-ups.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-5565823/MPs-question-cycling-chiefs-Jonny-Clay-huge-pay-off.html#ixzz5BNg2Cc4g

Interesting reading. Is the penny finally dropping that BC is still stacked with rotten apples...?

 

[fmk_RoI]

GMC inquiry leads to medical tribunal for Richard Freeman. Maybe the DCMS report will actually get a scalp, in the end.

British Cycling has been told to expect a medical tribunal involving its former doctor that could have serious consequences for the sport, The Sunday Telegraph understands.

The governing body is said to have been informed that Richard Freeman is likely to face a General Medical Council tribunal in connection with a delivery of testosterone patches to the team headquarters in 2011.

It continues:

UK Anti-Doping may need to examine any fresh evidence that may emerge during a tribunal, given the rules relating to the possession of banned substances by athlete support personnel.

 

[samhocking]

Can't be that big a deal. Fit 4 Sport are trading still and not under any investigation and Freeman still licenced to practice with GMC. If Fit 4 Sport were supplying testosterone without a licence I can't see how they can still be trading a year later?

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

Can't be that big a deal. Fit 4 Sport are trading still and not under any investigation and Freeman still licenced to practice with GMC. If Fit 4 Sport were supplying testosterone without a licence I can't see how they can still be trading a year later?

Uh, not sure if you didn't comprehend the report, but the tribunal hasn't happened yet. No punishment is rendered until it decides. And it will only decide on Freeman, leaving UKAD to consider whether they need to rethink their decision on British Cycling, while Fit 4 Sport has nothing really to do with such punishments, no one has accused them of breaking the law. But, you know, do go on leaping to the defence of British cycling and insisting nothing's ever a problem. You're like the boy who cried wolf, only wilfully blind instead of hallucinating: the boy who cried nothing to see here, I guess.

 

[samhocking]

There's nothing to defend yet? I know the GMC already completed their investigation into Freeman which started in March and completed last month or whenever it was. All i'm saying is, if all GMC & UKAD have after that, is a GMC medical tribunal for Freeman, there's not much going on in terms of doping. Nothing has changed in terms of riders being involved and won't be if it's a GMC tribunal after an 8 month investigation by UKAD & GMC.

 

[gillan1969]

Re:

There's nothing to defend yet? I know the GMC already completed their investigation into Freeman which started in March and completed last month or whenever it was. All i'm saying is, if all GMC & UKAD have after that, is a GMC medical tribunal for Freeman, there's not much going on in terms of doping. Nothing has changed in terms of riders being involved and won't be if it's a GMC tribunal after an 8 month investigation by UKAD & GMC.

perhaps no one has identified the fire yet sam but the smoke just keeps on billowing and billowing.....

 

[Koronin]

I'm hoping this might be the correct thread for this question. Has anyone heard anything about Jaime Roson and if he is going to end up with a ban or not?