CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

[Robert5091]

Yep, it was a good thing he had no records.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/richard-freeman-resigns-from-british-cycling/

The Sunday Times reported that UKAD established that sixty to seventy 40mg vials of triamcinolone were delivered to the Manchester velodrome in 2011 as well, though no medical records have ever been produced to justify such a quantity. In March Team Sky confirmed to Cyclingnews that Freeman had administered corticoidsteriods to staff of both the WorldTour team and British Cycling, however no medical records have been been provided with Freeman claiming that his laptop was later stolen and no back-up records record.

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/04/interview-michael-rasmussen-talks-tues-marginal-gains-outer-edge-potential/

Interview: Michael Rasmussen talks TUEs, marginal gains, and the outer edge of potential

Michael Rasmussen’s voice dips in and out as the connection stutters, but the message is clear. Fifty-five vials of triamcinolone — the substance Bradley Wiggins used to treat pollen allergies before the 2011 and 2012 Tours de France, and before the 2013 Giro d’Italia — is a year’s supply for a pro cycling team.
...
“I would use maybe two vials [of triamcinolone] for the Tour de France,” Rasmussen says. “We would just make up a reason to get it. A tendonitis in the knee or elbow, there could be many reasons to justify the use of corticosteroids.”

And would the Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE) come from Dr. Geert Leinders, the former Rabobank doctor who worked with Team Sky in 2011 and 2012? “From any one of the three or four Rabobank doctors,” Rasmussen says. “Whoever was around at the time.”

 

[samhocking]

None of that is related to it being illegal for a team doctor to store triamcinolone out of competition. The rules allow it whatever sub-story you relate to it.

 

[yaco]

Re:

It was a reply to Robert5091 saying the triamcinolone stored is a problem. It's basically not, because it's not a WADA violation to store it or use it out of competition from his surgery in the velodrome.

In terms of Freeman ordering Testosterone (if that's the case), that isn't against WADA rules either, but could be under GMC's if unlicenced for example. As we know, it has to be linked to an athlete out of competition to be against WADA code 2.6.2:

2.6.2 Possession by an Athlete Support Person
In-Competition of any Prohibited Substance or
any Prohibited Method, or Possession by an
Athlete Support Person Out-of-Competition of
any Prohibited Substance or any Prohibited
Method which is prohibited Out-of-Competition
in connection with an Athlete, Competition or
training, unless the Athlete Support Person
establishes that the Possession is consistent
with a TUE granted to an Athlete in accordance
with Article 4.4 or other acceptable justification.

GMC is a medical, not anti-doping body. They may well have power to link the testosterone to an athlete, but we don't even know how/why/if the testosterone got ordered yet, letalone any athletes involved. From Freemans comments he seemed confident it was simple to explain. We wait for next year to find out if it is.

I re-emphasise it's against WADA rules for an athlete support person to order on have on their premises banned substances while they are working under the WADA Code - With the 'jiffy bag' issue it was never a case of athletes being charged unless there was clear documentary evidence of which there wasn't - The only chance UKAD had was to pin Dr Freeman ordering banned substances and having them onsite.

 

[samhocking]

Maybe. If GMC link the testosterone to athletes, it will then be handed back to UKAD who will then be able to satisfy Code 2.6.2. Until such time, no riders are associated with the testosterone order or Triamcinolone store, so considered within the rules.

 

[Robert5091]

The lack of any records for triamcinolone or seemingly any "questionable" substances is surely what will bring the doc down. There is, as far as we know, no link (thanks to the disappearing laptop) to any riders.

So he'll get done for sloppy record keeping and that's it. (Sky & BC will probably breath a sigh of relief too)

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

Maybe. If GMC link the testosterone to athletes, it will then be handed back to UKAD who will then be able to satisfy Code 2.6.2. Until such time, no riders are associated with the testosterone order or Triamcinolone store, so considered within the rules.

The GMC only has powers of disclosure in relation to fitness to practice which would be limited to Dr Freeman not the riders.

 

[FootyG]

What i wanna know is does Freeman seem like as a guy who would interview Leinders, ask him about doping, and recommend him to Brailsford only after Leinders assured him he has no ties with doping

 

[samhocking]

Yes, but like UKAD did for GMC, GMC can for UKAD. The only reason GMC are involved is because UKAD gave them details of the testosterone order. I agree and said initially GMC has nothing to do with anti-doping at all.

 

[gillan1969]

Re:

Yes, but like UKAD did for GMC, GMC can for UKAD. The only reason GMC are involved is because UKAD gave them details of the testosterone order. I agree and said initially GMC has nothing to do with anti-doping at all.

.............just one rogue doc

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

Yes, but like UKAD did for GMC, GMC can for UKAD. The only reason GMC are involved is because UKAD gave them details of the testosterone order. I agree and said initially GMC has nothing to do with anti-doping at all.

.............just one rogue doc

One rogue doctor, four rascals and half-a-dozen scallywags...

 

[fmk_RoI]

Freeman to claim testosterone patches were not ordered in error but were actually for Medal Factory staff, while the staff concerned will deny all knowledge of this claim?

Cycling doctor Richard Freeman to say testosterone patches delivered to the National Cycling Centre were for staff

Former British Cycling team doctor could claim they were for members of staff

It follow claims they were 'sent in error' and were returned to the supplier

Sky and British Cycling are bracing themselves for the outcome of investigation

 

[samhocking]

Richard Freeman's explanation for why a batch of testosterone patches were delivered to the National Cycling Centre — home to both the British team and Team Sky — could involve a claim that they were for at least two members of the management staff.

'Could' reads a bit like wrapping up 'We don't really know what Freeman's story is yet' to me? Soon find out in Feb I guess, not that it's public as MPTS doesn't seem to have his tribunal scheduled at all, so must be private hearing I assume?

 

[gillan1969]

Richard Freeman's explanation for why a batch of testosterone patches were delivered to the National Cycling Centre — home to both the British team and Team Sky — could involve a claim that they were for at least two members of the management staff.

'Could' reads a bit like wrapping up 'We don't really know what Freeman's story is yet' to me? Soon find out in Feb I guess, not that it's public as MPTS doesn't seem to have his tribunal scheduled at all, so must be private hearing I assume?

i thought we knew it was sutton? and he's denied it? as has the a n other

poor dr freeman...he's becoming more hapless than Froome.....

the slow unravelling of sky is probably going to be better value than a festina like explosion

one wonders at what point do you give up Sam???

 

[macbindle]

It's only a partial unravelling. I'm not convinced there are any legs left in the story, either. The latest DM prelude to the 'Testosterone story' doesn't even seem to have registered in the cycling press, let alone the MSM. I can't currently envisage much else happening either really. No Landis figure lurking in the wings, simmering away. No Coke cans in bins. No 'Hospital conversation'. No real smoking gun in the manner of UDPS/Discovery, and no real opportunity for Voet incident.

I think we are probably done here, in all honesty, and can look forward to cycling's next farcical story in 2020.

 

[samhocking]

The fact UKAD handed Freeman's Testosterone discovery to GMC already tells us it's the end of the matter in terms of an anti-doping matter. GMC tribunal is to maintain the GP Register. Unless GMC uncover something UKAD couldn't, it would seem the sum of everything BC & Sky related to an actual ADRV will be zero.

 

[fmk_RoI]

For those unclear on what British Cycling's radical PR arm is sub-Tweeting on today it's the claim that Freeman odered the testosterone to administer to an athlete

The tribunal will further inquire into the allegation that during an interview with UK Anti-Doping on 17 February 2017, Dr Freeman made untrue statements in that he stated that Testogel had been ordered for a non-athlete member of staff and had been returned to Fit4Sport Limited.

It is alleged that Dr Freeman’s conduct as set out above was dishonest. It is further alleged that his motive for placing the Order was to obtain Testogel to administer to an athlete to improve their athletic performance. It is further alleged Dr Freeman’s motive for his actions, in respect of the untrue statements and communications with Fit4Sport Limited, were to conceal his motive for placing the order.

Full link

More quotes:

The tribunal will inquire into the allegation that, on 16 May 2011, Dr Richard Freeman ordered for delivery from Fit4Sport Limited to the Manchester Velodrome 30 sachets of Testogel. It is further alleged that, at the time of the order, Testogel was (and remains) prohibited on the World Anti-Doping Agency List of Prohibited Substances and Methods. It is further alleged that on 18 May 2011, Dr Freeman made untrue statements, in that he denied making the order and advised that it had been made in error.

The tribunal will further inquire into the allegation that, on a date in October 2011, Dr Freeman contacted an individual at Fit4Sport Limited requesting written confirmation that the order had been sent in error, returned and would be destroyed by Fit4Sport Limited, knowing that this had not taken place. It is further alleged that, on a date in October 2011, Dr Freeman showed the email to others knowing that its content was untrue.

And

The tribunal will further inquire into the allegation that Dr Freeman failed to ensure that the records on a laptop, which was stolen from him on the evening of 27 / 28 August 2014, could be retrieved.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

BBC picking up the story here:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/46870091

Freeman has been charged following a General Medical Council investigation.

His case will be heard at an independent medical practitioners tribunal in Manchester that is scheduled to run from 6 February to 5 March.

The GMC claims Freeman's motive for ordering testosterone from Fit4Sport Limited in May 2011 was to administer it "to an athlete to improve their athletic performance."

It is alleged Freeman then made "untrue statements" in denying he made the order and advising it "had been made in error."

 

[samhocking]

No wonder it's scheduled to take 30 days! Crux of any anti-doping matter seems to be the non-athlete said it wasn't for him so GMC allegation is it must be for athlete, or non-athlete said it was ordered for an athlete. That decision will come down to evidence the testosterone wasn't returned to fit4sport but kept by Freeman (who fabricated fit4sport email or fit4sport fabricated for him) and evidence it was administered to said athlete. Seems very unlikely any ADRV will be found based on the allegations.

Sum of GMC matters seems to be, Freeman lied to UKAD and did order on purpose.
Poor Record keeping
Not backing up laptop.

Interesting observation is Testogel alleged to be ordered on 16 May 2011, explained on 18th May 2011 (assume when it was opened and he told Peters) but email from fit4sport only showed to Dr Steve Peters in October 5 months later? Not sure why such delay?

 

[Robert5091]

Had a problem with the link by fmk_RoI - this works for me -
https://www.mpts-uk.org/hearings-and-decisions/medical-practitioners-tribunals/dr-richard-freeman-feb-19

This does not look good for the Doc.

 

[samhocking]

Not good if he's lied to Steve Peters and UKAD about the motive for the order, but it seems to be a case of Freeman said Testogel was for non-athlete, non-athlete said for athlete, or GMC simply taking non-athletes word so allegation it must be for an athlete. Chances of any evidence of something illegal would be found 8 years later seems slim to me in terms of an ADRV, but who knows,

 

[yaco]

Re:

Not good if he's lied to Steve Peters and UKAD about the motive for the order, but it seems to be a case of Freeman said Testogel was for non-athlete, non-athlete said for athlete, or GMC simply taking non-athletes word so allegation it must be for an athlete. Chances of any evidence of something illegal would be found 8 years later seems slim to me in terms of an ADRV, but who knows,

There have been cases of athlete support persons being charged by NADO's for having prohibited substances on their premises.Theoretically the British NADO could step in if the GMA finds Dr Freeman has a case to answer.

 

[Robert5091]

Re:

Not good if he's lied to Steve Peters and UKAD about the motive for the order, but it seems to be a case of Freeman said Testogel was for non-athlete, non-athlete said for athlete, or GMC simply taking non-athletes word so allegation it must be for an athlete. Chances of any evidence of something illegal would be found 8 years later seems slim to me in terms of an ADRV, but who knows,

According to Freeman the Testogel was both returned and for a non-athlete. So something's fishy.

 

[gillan1969]

the hapless Freeman........poor Sam

 

[gillan1969]

Re:

Not good if he's lied to Steve Peters and UKAD about the motive for the order, but it seems to be a case of Freeman said Testogel was for non-athlete, non-athlete said for athlete, or GMC simply taking non-athletes word so allegation it must be for an athlete. Chances of any evidence of something illegal would be found 8 years later seems slim to me in terms of an ADRV, but who knows,

yup and the stuff in Rumsas' car was for his mother-in-law

poor Sam...it's like when poor dave stoller had the pump jammed in his spoke by team cinzano

 

[gillan1969]

No wonder it's scheduled to take 30 days! Crux of any anti-doping matter seems to be the non-athlete said it wasn't for him so GMC allegation is it must be for athlete, or non-athlete said it was ordered for an athlete. That decision will come down to evidence the testosterone wasn't returned to fit4sport but kept by Freeman (who fabricated fit4sport email or fit4sport fabricated for him) and evidence it was administered to said athlete. Seems very unlikely any ADRV will be found based on the allegations.

Sum of GMC matters seems to be, Freeman lied to UKAD and did order on purpose.
Poor Record keeping
Not backing up laptop.

Interesting observation is Testogel alleged to be ordered on 16 May 2011, explained on 18th May 2011 (assume when it was opened and he told Peters) but email from fit4sport only showed to Dr Steve Peters in October 5 months later? Not sure why such delay?

you know that there was no ADRV in the case of Armsrong yeah???