CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

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He suggested asking each rider on the ABP monitoring programme to submit their monthly ABP test results on a voluntary basis to him 'for statistical analysis similar to that performed by the anti-doping agencies. This is an opportunity to assess frequency of testing and give warning of target testing.
Why would clean riders be worried about target testing and testing in general?
 
I mean it's entirely possible that Daily Mail are trying to make a bigger story out of it
Certainly worth noting that - apart from our resident cheer squad - no one appears to be actually denying the MoS story, or the follow ups.

Also worth remembering that we're being told the Mail can't be trusted by someone who only two weeks ago was insisting that Shane Sutton was part of the Linda McCartney outfit, despite all the evidence to the contrary from the man who wrote the book on the team, through Nicole Cooke, and on to his employers at the time, Welsh Cycling. When it comes to making stuff up, some need to take a selfie.
 
Why would clean riders be worried about target testing and testing in general?
I think they mean if they had access to ADAMS data (the statistical/module data) through UKAD, they can warn their own riders they (BC) will be target testing/monitoring them (as the pro teams would do via UCI health monitoring / internal testing).

The problem if you're wanting to go beyond what your NADO is doing as an NGB is, you are testing blind without any historical data. All you have as an NGB is basically what the riders see on ADAMS which is next to useless in terms of intelligence to target test riders. You can't even see the amount of prohibited substance in the Negative lab result for example.

 
Isn't privacy a great thing?
Vaughters also confirmed that Catlin would have full access to the UCI’s biological passport programme and that both anti-doping bodies would work with the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) and the ADAMS whereabouts system. He also confirmed that Catlin had already tested his riders in November in order to build up his own off-season profiles.
 
Not to let facts intrude here but by now many riders have been busted on the basis of samples that initially came back negative. Intelligence-led is the mantra today. Only LA fans believe negative means nothing to follow up on.
ATF is what is followed up on, not Negative fmk. As UKAD kindly explained, a trace within a Negative 'can' if above a threshold be used to decide to target test the rider. A Negative is determined by the lab, not the NADO.
 
Certainly worth noting that - apart from our resident cheer squad - no one appears to be actually denying the MoS story, or the follow ups.

Also worth remembering that we're being told the Mail can't be trusted by someone who only two weeks ago was insisting that Shane Sutton was part of the Linda McCartney outfit, despite all the evidence to the contrary from the man who wrote the book on the team, through Nicole Cooke, and on to his employers at the time, Welsh Cycling. When it comes to making stuff up, some need to take a selfie.
I said UKAD was investigating Sutton as part of the McCartney allegations. He worked with the team for 4 years on and off - why wouldn't they?
 
I think they mean if they had access to ADAMS data (the statistical/module data) through UKAD, they can warn their own riders they (BC) will be target testing/monitoring them (as the pro teams would do via UCI health monitoring / internal testing).

The problem if you're wanting to go beyond what your NADO is doing as an NGB is, you are testing blind without any historical data. All you have as an NGB is basically what the riders see on ADAMS which is next to useless in terms of intelligence to target test riders. You can't even see the amount of prohibited substance in the Negative lab result for example.

Where does it say BC intended to monitor or target test British riders? Please provide a source sam.

Freeman and co wanted wanted the ABP test results so that they could warn riders about target testing and develop an understanding of the frequency of testing. Which makes no sense if they were actually running a clean track program.
 
The BBC say both WADA and the UCI are investigating the proposed programme:
It added: "Riders can access their haematological values directly through (data system) ADAMS. Consequently, riders can also share such data with any chosen party. As for the UCI, it does not share personal information with a third party unless authorised/required by law or authorised by the rider in question. British Cycling is facing scrutiny over a request its former chief doctor made to UK Anti-Doping to share athlete biological passport data a few months before the Rio Olympics."
 
Where does it say BC intended to monitor or target test British riders? Please provide a source sam.
I said that's what I think (how I read it). What did you think Freeman means in what you quoted? It says 'similar to' so clearly to him (British Cycling).

He suggested asking each rider on the ABP monitoring programme to submit their monthly ABP test results on a voluntary basis to him 'for statistical analysis similar to that performed by the anti-doping agencies. This is an opportunity to assess frequency of testing and give warning of target testing.'
 
I said that's what I think (how I read it). What did you think Freeman means in what you quoted? It says 'similar to' so clearly to him (British Cycling).
No source, so I'll assume you just made it up (yet again).

Even the notion that BC intended to test/monitor riders is ridiculous. Really desperate stuff sam, even by your standards.
 
The timeline on this always confuses me so remember:

  • January 2016 is two months before Jess Varnish unleashed hell on the fed
  • January 2016 is three months before Simon Yates found himself facing time on the naughty step
  • January 2016 is five months before Lizzie Armitstead made her third whereabouts strike and found herself facing time on the naughty step
  • January 2016 is eight months before Fancy Bears screwed Bradley Wiggins' reputation for good
  • January 2016 is nine months before in a Jiffy took on a whole new meaning
What was happening before January 2016?
 
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The BBC say both WADA and the UCI are investigating the proposed programme:
Which is the core of the problem,
No source, so I'll assume you just made it up (yet again).

Even the notion that BC intended to test/monitor riders is ridiculous. Really desperate stuff sam, even by your standards.
The source is what you quoted, I quoted it again! You're looking at this as BC wanting to dope riders (how Daily Mail is), I'm looking at it as BC wanting to make sure riders are not doping. This is why Freeman uses the term 'earlier' because by the time Bio Passports target tests, it's too late, too much of a risk, they need to monitor and as per last weeks DM story internally test too! WE even have the Nandrolone example as the perfect case in point. Negative under UKAD, so UKAD won't target test the rider and supplements, so who else is going to, if BC don't?

Edit: I don't know the delay between lab results and them available on ADAMS today, but (for obvious reasons) I've read it lags several weeks behind. ie a rider can be doping 3 weeks ago and you won't see that on ABP.
 
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Freeman and co wanted wanted the ABP test results so that they could warn riders about target testing and develop an understanding of the frequency of testing.
Given what Freeman wrote - "This is an opportunity to assess frequency of testing and give warning of targeted testing." - it's hard to disagree with that.

If you did wrench that out of shape and take it to mean the targeted testing was to be carried out by BC, why would you want to give the riders warning? Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of anti-doping tests?
 
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Given what Freeman wrote - "This is an opportunity to assess frequency of testing and give warning of targeted testing." - it's hard to disagree with that.

If you did wrench that out of shape and take it to mean the targeted testing was to be carried out by BC, why would you want to give the riders warning? Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of anti-doping tests?
Wrong, you've removed the context.
" on a voluntary basis to him 'for statistical analysis similar to that performed by the anti-doping agencies"

Clearly WADA / UKAD are not going to allow details about their own target testing strategies and upcoming testing frequencies to exist on what the rider themselves can see. Give UKAD some credit fmk, FFS!
 
The timeline on this always confuses me so remember:

  • January 2016 is two months before Jess Varnish unleashed hell on the fed
  • January 2016 is three months before Simon Yates found himself facing time on the naughty step
  • January 2016 is five months before Lizzie Armitstead made her third whereabouts strike and found herself facing time on the naughty step
  • January 2016 is eight months before Fancy Bears screwed Bradley Wiggins' reputation for good
  • January 2016 is nine months before in a Jiffy took on a whole new meaning
What was happening before January 2016?
I think more likely not until 2016, because that's when it became mandatory for ADOs to include the Steroidal module to the ABP. From 2014 to 2016 it was optional and probably only available under UCI, not UKAD yet perhaps?
 
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It's worth noting that by 2016 Sky and British Cycling were almost entirely divorced. I think Rod Ellingworth running the men's road team at World's/Olympics was the only remaining link
I think what fmk is getting at, is while Brailsford & Peters were long gone from British Cycling, Sutton was there calling the shots let go by Sky and Freeman returned with him in 2015.
 
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British Cycling following in the footsteps of Russian athletics:
The IC determined that there were many occasions on which Russian athletes participating in athletics were given advance notice of proposed out-of competition tests and were thus able to avoid being tested or take steps to render the tests ineffective.
ARAF received disclosure (to which it was not entitled) regarding the identification of 23 Russian athletes who were subjects of an IAAF inquiry regarding abnormal ABP testing results (See Chapter 18). The fact that ARAF was aware of the internal details as a result of the disclosure provided ARAF with an advantage over other countries, by allowing ARAF to identify in advance, specific athletes who were vulnerable to ADRVs prior to the 2012 London Olympic Games. This “early warning” knowledge enabled 128 ARAF to engage in wrongful conduct in order to delay the application of ADRVs, thereby allowing several Russian athletes with abnormal ABP test results to compete at the 2012 London Olympic Games and, in certain cases, win medals.
 
People are thick and just assume this ABP data must be in realtime and could act as a warning when levels get too high - it really doesn't work with that sort of immediacy in reality. It can take days and even weeks for a control to get through the lab, processed and onto ADAMS and available to view by a team or rider. Completely useless if you're being target tested, you'll be tested before you see the anomalies in the lab data anyway!

I'm pretty sure I've read Vaughters on Velonews explain in detail in the context of JTL and Sky the lag of ABP data and this very issue and so he puts the new signings through a series of blood tests to get the latest data against physiological and medical testing before signing him and to be sure he isn't doping as much as possible.
 
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