CMS Doping in sport revelations/discussion

[MartinGT]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1189275966205546496

View: https://twitter.com/Greghenderson1/status/1189275966205546496?s=20


Where is Moore et al on all of this? All keeping quiet for now, waiting to see if there is still gravy on that boat.

 

[samhocking]

Sam - Read through the Wada code - An athlete support person must not have banned substances at their workplace for athletes who compete under the WADA Code - There has been at least one case in which an athlete support person has been sanctioned - Read Stephen Dank.

And Freeman claims it was for a senior staff member - Sutton. That would therefore not be against WADA code.

 

[MartinGT]

Sutton denies it.

 

[samhocking]

It does seem a bit odd to me that they would throw Sutton into the equation, someone with a relatively (within the cycling world) high public profile and prone to speaking his mind.....wouldn't it have been a safer bet to just say it was for some random backroom staff member, or even a relative of a random backroom staff member and then hide behind the whole medical confidentiality thing.....

MPTS have to throw Sutton into the equation as that is the only person O'Rourke said she wants to cross-examine. GMC have nobody as witness other than the expert witness Dr to show the panel that Sutton didn't need a treatment of Testogel.
On a complete wild tangent, it's not beyond the realms of possibility given Freeman was Witness to Jess Varnish bullying and it was Freemans statement that essentially got Sutton sacked, that there is a lot of personal tension between them too and perhaps Sutton was bullying Freeman for testogel in 2011. Remember, Sutton is an ex pro from probably the peak era of Testosterone abuse in cycling before EPO and at the time in question in 2011 was trying for a baby with his wife half his age iirc. One of the long-term side-effects of cyclists abusing testoserone is no sperm production anymore (where the wives tale, cycling makes you impotent comes from partly). Taking a month of Testogel could reverse that and/or address any erectile dysfunction too.

 

[brownbobby]

MPTS have to throw Sutton into the equation as that is the only person O'Rourke said she wants to cross-examine. GMC have nobody as witness other than the expert witness Dr to show the panel that Sutton didn't need a treatment of Testogel.
On a complete wild tangent, it's not beyond the realms of possibility given Freeman was Witness to Jess Varnish bullying and it was Freemans statement that essentially got Sutton sacked, that there is a lot of personal tension between them too and perhaps Sutton was bullying Freeman for testogel in 2011. Remember, Sutton is an ex pro from probably the peak era of Testosterone abuse in cycling before EPO and at the time in question in 2011 was trying for a baby with his wife half his age iirc. One of the long-term side-effects of cyclists abusing testoserone is no sperm production anymore (where the wives tale, cycling makes you impotent comes from partly). Taking a month of Testogel could reverse that and/or address any erectile dysfunction too.

All of this makes sense if it's actually true that the stuff was for Sutton...which was kind of my point.....

 

[yaco]

It

And Freeman claims it was for a senior staff member - Sutton. That would therefore not be against WADA code.

It's against the WADA Code .

 

[samhocking]

It's against the WADA Code .

2.6.2 Allows Athlete Support Persons to be in possession of prohibited in and out of competition substances under numerous circumstances, so long as they are not connected to an athlete, a competition and training. Ordering, storing and prescribing prohibited substances clearly has to happen for both athletes and other athlete support personnel the Doctor is acting as a GP for both on the premises and on the road.

2.6.2 Possession by an Athlete Support Person In-Competition of any Prohibited Substance or any Prohibited Method, or Possession by an Athlete Support Person Out-of-Competition of any Prohibited Substance or any Prohibited Method which is prohibited Out-of Competition in connection with an Athlete, Competition or training, unless the Athlete Support Person establishes that the Possession is consistent with a TUE granted to an Athlete in accordance with Article 4.4 or other acceptable justification.13

 

[MartinGT]

So Freeman didnt have anything to do with riders?

 

[King Boonen]

So Freeman didnt have anything to do with riders?

Substance, not doctor. Sam's right, and I suspect again, despite BC/Sky's amazing attention to detail everywhere else, there will be a surprising lack of a paper trail around this...

 

[samhocking]

Yes. It's the connection of the prohibited substance with the rider that would be an issue. The connection of a prohibited substance to a support person wouldn't break any WADA code.

Other situations a Team Doctor can order, store and administer prohibited substances within the rules are: Illness, Injury, TUE, Emergency etc.


This is why BC having a store of Triamcinolone went no further with UKAD or WADA because it's not against WADA code to have it in their possession unless connected to an athlete directly. In fact there are numerous legal ways to use Triamcinolone in and out of competition too, so storing it would be expected, it's used for injury all the time and riders are busting up themselves all the time, so treatment would be pretty routine, no differently to that rider going to hospital and having a Triamcinolone injection under provision of the hospital doctor instead to aid their recovery, stop swelling, get back to work again etc.

 

[rick james]

hang on testosterone patches help you get it hard?

I’ll have some of that please.....saying that the wife is 7 months pregnant with out second baby so it would be me on my lonesome and I doubt my arm/hand would manage it

 

[King Boonen]

Funny how BC chose today to launch the new track bike. Just a big coincidence I expect...

 

[samhocking]

Teams have to launch the Olympic bikes before the first World Cup. Generally it's around this time. You would want to leave it to the last second obviously, they all do.

 

[King Boonen]

Teams have to launch the Olympic bikes before the first World Cup. Generally it's around this time. You would want to leave it to the last second obviously, they all do.

No, they don't.

From https://www.uci.org/docs/default-so...-jo-20180403-e_english.pdf?sfvrsn=864a0364_24

11.1.010

The equipment to be used during the Olympic Games must comply with the UCI regulations, and particularly with Article 1.3.006.
For track races, any equipment used at the Olympic Games must have been commercially available – in accordance with article 1.3.006 – at the latest on January 1st of the year of the Olympic Games and may therefore not be in development phase (prototype). In addition, the equipment must have been previously used in the year preceding the Olympic Games in an event included in the list as defined in the UCI Track Equipment Registration Procedure.
The UCI shall register any equipment to be used during track races at the Olympic games and reserves its right to communicate about such equipment.

Letter sent by David Lappartient to national federations on the 4th September 2019

http://www.uec.ch/resources/Olympics%20EuroGames/ALL_NF_Equipment_Olympics%20Online%20Registration%20Form_ENG_04Sep2019.pdf

Minsk, Glasgow, Hong Kong or Cambridge would all have been acceptable launches.

 

[gillan1969]

MPTS have to throw Sutton into the equation as that is the only person O'Rourke said she wants to cross-examine. GMC have nobody as witness other than the expert witness Dr to show the panel that Sutton didn't need a treatment of Testogel.
On a complete wild tangent, it's not beyond the realms of possibility given Freeman was Witness to Jess Varnish bullying and it was Freemans statement that essentially got Sutton sacked, that there is a lot of personal tension between them too and perhaps Sutton was bullying Freeman for testogel in 2011. Remember, Sutton is an ex pro from probably the peak era of Testosterone abuse in cycling before EPO and at the time in question in 2011 was trying for a baby with his wife half his age iirc. One of the long-term side-effects of cyclists abusing testoserone is no sperm production anymore (where the wives tale, cycling makes you impotent comes from partly). Taking a month of Testogel could reverse that and/or address any erectile dysfunction too.

hahaha...they've got you hook line and sinker...cycling doctor caught with PEDs but its not for the riders....I presume you were also inclined to give Rumas the benefit of the doubt.....you guys...

 

[Craigee]

Just on the new British bike launch. Can you buy these bikes from a bike shop? Pretty sure this is one of the UCI rules.

 

[King Boonen]

Just on the new British bike launch. Can you buy these bikes from a bike shop? Pretty sure this is one of the UCI rules.

They have to be made available (I think there is a window within which this has to happen) but the UCI don't care how many, what the price is or how difficult they make it for people to buy.

 

[GVFTA]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1189275966205546496

View: https://twitter.com/Greghenderson1/status/1189275966205546496?s=20


Where is Moore et al on all of this? All keeping quiet for now, waiting to see if there is still gravy on that boat.

My bet is that Greg Henderson is not the only ex Sky rider with some knowledge of the truth. All it is going to take is one rider and it seems that Mr Henderson is attempting to start the conversation.

 

[yaco]

Yes. It's the connection of the prohibited substance with the rider that would be an issue. The connection of a prohibited substance to a support person wouldn't break any WADA code.

Other situations a Team Doctor can order, store and administer prohibited substances within the rules are: Illness, Injury, TUE, Emergency etc.


This is why BC having a store of Triamcinolone went no further with UKAD or WADA because it's not against WADA code to have it in their possession unless connected to an athlete directly. In fact there are numerous legal ways to use Triamcinolone in and out of competition too, so storing it would be expected, it's used for injury all the time and riders are busting up themselves all the time, so treatment would be pretty routine, no differently to that rider going to hospital and having a Triamcinolone injection under provision of the hospital doctor instead to aid their recovery, stop swelling, get back to work again etc.

Doctor's will have their own practice where they can store WADA banned substances and provide to non-athletes for medical reasons BUT you must not have these substances on site where athletes train - This is the difference ! To be frank there was no need for Dr Freeman to have testerone or the like at the training venue for the British Track Program - Whether UKAD take action is up to their discretion.

 

[samhocking]

No, they don't.

From https://www.uci.org/docs/default-so...-jo-20180403-e_english.pdf?sfvrsn=864a0364_24


Letter sent by David Lappartient to national federations on the 4th September 2019

http://www.uec.ch/resources/Olympics%20EuroGames/ALL_NF_Equipment_Olympics%20Online%20Registration%20Form_ENG_04Sep2019.pdf

Minsk, Glasgow, Hong Kong or Cambridge would all have been acceptable launches.

Ah ok, it was reported elsewhere simply as teams must register the bikes before for the first world cup event in order that no further technical development takes place between it and the Olympics and so other teams cannot alter designs to copy others.

 

[samhocking]

Doctor's will have their own practice where they can store WADA banned substances and provide to non-athletes for medical reasons BUT you must not have these substances on site where athletes train - This is the difference ! To be frank there was no need for Dr Freeman to have testerone or the like at the training venue for the British Track Program - Whether UKAD take action is up to their discretion.

The relationship in 2.6.2 is between the substance and the athlete via the support person. Nowhere is it not explicitly a 1:1 relationship. Clearly a doctor will routinely have a prohibited substance on the bus, in his hotel, at the track, in his office, in the Service Course etc that might be legal for one rider, but would be illegal for another and order in bulk and have to store it where the athlete and him are/train/work/compete.

 

[yaco]

The relationship in 2.6.2 is between the substance and the athlete via the support person. Nowhere is it not explicitly a 1:1 relationship. Clearly a doctor will routinely have a prohibited substance on the bus, in his hotel, at the track, in his office, in the Service Course etc that might be legal for one rider, but would be illegal for another and order in bulk and have to store it where the athlete and him are/train/work/compete.

Ordering 30 sachets of testa gel which is stored at the British Track Cycling headquarters could be considered by UKAD as breaching 2.6.2 - Anyway we can disagree and we'll what transpires with UKAD - I will add that when this case was first made public, I suggested that UKAD's best chance of a conviction was with Dr Freem an - Anyway the Medical Tribunal is more important for Dr Freeman's future.

 

[samhocking]

Ordering 30 sachets of testa gel which is stored at the British Track Cycling headquarters could be considered by UKAD as breaching 2.6.2 - Anyway we can disagree and we'll what transpires with UKAD - I will add that when this case was first made public, I suggested that UKAD's best chance of a conviction was with Dr Freem an - Anyway the Medical Tribunal is more important for Dr Freeman's future.

It would be if it exists for a rider, yes.

 

[Jacques (7 ch)]

Walsh goes in to bat on this in today’s ST. Behind a paywall but he puts the boot in on Freeman and Brailsford.

‘It is with journalistic embarrassment that I recall this period in my life ... The most important mistake was believing Brailsford when he said he had nothing to hide.’

 

[42x16ss]

Walsh goes in to bat on this in today’s ST. Behind a paywall but he puts the boot in on Freeman and Brailsford.

‘It is with journalistic embarrassment that I recall this period in my life ... The most important mistake was believing Brailsford when he said he had nothing to hide.’

I wonder who else is going to miraculously jump ship, and who is going to try and keep it afloat.