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Watching today I was thinking that Angliru has become a little flatter in the last 3 years or so. Could be perfect gearing but Cobo made it look easier than it should have been. Now I'm just curious what his time was.
 
THISISIT said:
I think there's probably good reasons to think Cobo is probably on the go-juice, but I don't see any good reason to think Wiggins, Froome, and the rest at the front of the race aren't.
If you think Cobo is a more naturally talented athelete than Wiggins, Froome and the rest, that's up to you. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
Fergoose said:
If you think Cobo is a more naturally talented athelete than Wiggins, Froome and the rest, that's up to you. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
The fact that he can barely even finish a race when off the juice (assuming that he was clean last year) says it all.
 
Jun 12, 2010
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Fergoose said:
If you think Cobo is a more naturally talented athelete than Wiggins, Froome and the rest, that's up to you. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
I assure you I have absolutely no way on knowing any of their "natural" abilities and really can't imagine you do either?

Just like neither of us have any way of knowing if any given rider is not doping and therefore "worthy" of receiving our cheers (assuming you're of the opinion that only clean riders are worth cheering).
 
Libertine Seguros said:
Unofficially, 43'44", which places him 32" behind Contador.
Thanks. Another comparison could be times for the last 6km or so where the really painful stuff starts and what's left of the field explodes

Edit: Cobo probably did the last 6k faster than Contador in 08.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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In my completely unbiased opinion Cobo is dirtier than a toilet freshly filled with a steaming dump and a great injustice has been done to the 100% clean as a whistle Froome and Wiggins :D

Seriously though, watching the stage I was very ****ed seeing the Froome and Wiggo getting destroyed by Cobo and was convinced he was on the juice. Now I've calmed down a bit, Cobo has been up there very strongly all race and presuming he is on the juice whatever it is will be totally undectable and therefore Froome and Wiggins are just as likely to be on the exact same ****. It sucks but thats just the way it is.
 
THISISIT said:
I assure you I have absolutely no way on knowing any of their "natural" abilities and really can't imagine you do either?
No. But by stating he is using PEDs and that there is no good reason to suspect that the rest of the field weren't, you are implying that there was a level playing field and it was merely Cobo's innate natural superiority that saw him decimate the field without even puffing hard. After doing the same yesterday and having ridden the Time Trial of his life earlier in the competition.

Multiple olympic gold medalists, GT podium placers and winners, all washed aside by the sheer inherent ability and steely determination that lies within our 2011 Vuelta champion*, Senor Juan Jose Cobo! "From Zero (points) to Hero", I can just picture it in theatres now.

So yes, you may draw that conclusion, but I'll decline, thanks all the same.

Just like neither of us have any way of knowing if any given rider is not doping and therefore "worthy" of receiving our cheers (assuming you're of the opinion that only clean riders are worth cheering).
Again, if you are happy to give as much support to Ricco, Landis, Cobo et al as to those who have had no concrete suspicions of doping laid at their door, then fair enough. Again, we must agree to disagree on the level of respect we should afford to riders who are proven to have cheated their competitors, the race and the public.

*provisional results only, subject to change
 
May 3, 2010
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I'm just wondering where all the guys who get upset about riders being labelled as dopers are?

Normally, if a thread like this is made about a guy like Evans, Wiggins, Levi, Garmin etc, there is a stream of angry posters accusing anyone making accusations of hating cycling? I'm just wondering why their is no outrage about poor old Cobo being accused of doping? The cynical would think that it was a case of Cobo having the wrong passport, or people only getting upset when certain riders from certain countries being accused.

Can someone explain to me the difference between Gianetti and Andy Rihs/ Och/Lelangue?
 
Jul 30, 2009
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Cobo - faster up Angliru than Heras in 2002 :rolleyes:

I guess that also means I am interested in the medication for blood parasites too... :(
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Mrs John Murphy said:
I'm just wondering why their is no outrage about poor old Cobo being accused of doping??
Because he has a big head.
I think that = doper.
Hard to argue with facts.
 
Sep 3, 2011
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It's easy to say that Cobo is dirty. Levi, Voeckler, Gilbert and Cancellera etc. With bold thread titles like.......there is no way such and such a rider is clean. But at the end of the day there is absolutely no way of knowing without physical evidence. To say that Cobo or whoever else is taking performance enhancing drugs on a forum without a shred of evidence is nothing other than an opinionated assumption. If someone states that rider A or rider B is using doping products then You need some INCONTROVERTIBLE......IRREFUTABLE evidence to back up such a claim.
 
Jul 30, 2009
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OK Cobo - almost as fast up the Angliru as Contador in 2008...

It's a fast time.

I'm pretty amazed at Wiggo's time tbh but at least he cracked properly at the end.
 
Dec 13, 2010
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hrotha said:
Being dodgy has nothing to do with lacking natural talent. Cobo was one of the best u23 riders in Spain.
What makes you think the Spanish U23 riders aren't on the juice?
 
Aug 6, 2009
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hrotha said:
I'm far from thinking that, but amateur results are pretty much the only measuring stick we have. At least amateur riders are less likely to have perfect programs.
You think so? There was a blurb in Cycle Sport Magazine years ago about how far and how fast the average hematocrit levels of Italian amateurs rose over the course of a few years.

Why would it be any different in Spain, where access to PED's and testing protocols at races like the Vuelta have been generally so relaxed?

If the Vuelta can't get it right, how do you think that trickles down to lesser pro races and the amateur scene, especially with guys like del Moral running athletic programs and Dr. Fuentes caught yet again in a doping scandal?
 

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