Cobo Talk Only

[djerkson]

Let's look at the Vuelta GC:


Van den Broeck - Another strong stage racer, but exploded onto the scene with a top10 in the infamous 2008 Giro, aged 25.

You should take into account that VDB changed his life dramatically around that time. Before that age, he felt like he was going nowhere with his career. He moved to Spain and did some high altitude stages in Italy, whereas before he didn't do anything like that. Here you have somebody who is willing to invest in his career. It even costed him a relationship. Here in Belgium we saw some images of VDB in the month of may, training in the snow of the Alps whereas it was beautiful weather in Belgium. That ****list of the UCI doesn't prove a thing: I mean, Cancellara was at level 0/10 and there were virtually no French riders on that list. I believe in Vdb, but i don't believe in Cobo. He came back after a big depression and gave away an incredible show yesterday. Credits for that, but i'm not buying it...

 

[Ryan.Welwyn]

That paragon of clean cycling Claudio Corti was Barloworld's boss.

Not saying there is anything wrong with Barloworld. Just that they don't have the funding and resources that are at hand to help with development at sky

 

[meat puppet]

Kim Deal made some good points re: hypocrisy along the way. Other than that I dunno. The brick is not red enough, yet.

 

[Anonymous]

cobo for espy award...play of the year

 

[hfer07]

Do we know how many tests were done on him? Was he tested for coming second on the stage for instance?

No- I would have thought he was tested too since he finished along side of Piepoli -as I stated before -I though he was going down too...

All very nice about Cobo and you obviously have a liking for the guy, and why wouldn't you? But could explain to me what, if anything, Cobo did pre-2007? AFAIK he turned pro in 2004 and did just about didley in those years and then all of a sudden, BOOM, in 2007 he starts blowing away other riders. He dis so until SD folded and din't do didley again at Caisse and no he is riding up Angliru like he is going for a nice sunday afternoon ride and again Gianetti is his DS. There is something fishy going on.

Regards
GJ

I never stated I liked the guy-certainly I don't hate him either-most of all never claimed he was "clean"-my statement is about people thinking he just came out of nowhere and destroyed the competition ala LA in 99
the suspicious around him? Those questions can be answered by David Millar-the insider of Saunier-Duval-and BTW he was with the team since 06-& when the team got sacked-he remained with Gianetti on Fuji Servetto, prior to Caisse- & he performed well during the 09 Vuelta. please get informed better

 

[Von Mises]

You should take into account that VDB changed his life dramatically around that time. Before that age, he felt like he was going nowhere with his career. He moved to Spain and did some high altitude stages in Italy, whereas before he didn't do anything like that. Here you have somebody who is willing to invest in his career. It even costed him a relationship. Here in Belgium we saw some images of VDB in the month of may, training in the snow of the Alps whereas it was beautiful weather in Belgium. That ****list of the UCI doesn't prove a thing: I mean, Cancellara was at level 0/10 and there were virtually no French riders on that list. I believe in Vdb, but i don't believe in Cobo. He came back after a big depression and gave away an incredible show yesterday. Credits for that, but i'm not buying it...

Funny, for me VDB is exactly one of the most fishy and UCI list only confirmed that.

 

[Lexman]

Funny, for me VDB is exactly one of the most fishy

you base it one what?

 

[Swede1]

Ok Nibali's quote makes me sick. He is basically a sore loser trying to say "Cobo's a doper! but me, im a saint". But wait Mr. Nibali, who did you defeat in the Vuelta last year. Mosquera!! Someone who actually tested positive for a banned substance used to cover up EPO. What he said really ****es me off.

 

[luckyboy]

Nibali supposedly trained with Ferrari in St Moritz in 2009.

 

[Fergoose]

Fergoose - can you provide me with Wiggins and Froome's non-2011 performances that suggest that they should be top 5 Vuelta riders and that their performance is part of a natural 'clean' progression, while Cobo's performance is abnormal? BTW why have you ignored the posts that disproved your claims about Cobo and Froome?

It’s hard to describe someone whose favourite riders are Nibali, Hushovd & Sastre as an anglophone fanboy! As for ignoring posts, I subjected this forum to another 5 or so paragraphs in response to Luckyboy’s comments – it was the post above the one where I pointed out your misrepresentation of why people suspect Cobo.

Luckyboy’s examples about Cobo’s time trialling standard in the 2007 TdF were much better and this Vuelta isn’t exactly filled with stellar time trialists. He did only lose 1 min 40 to Wiggins though, for those suspecting Wiggins.

In terms of Froome’s performances others have given an explanation about his possible potential in the Sky thread.

In terms of Wiggins, he’s been picking up Olympic and World Championship medals (include a fist full of golds) for fun since the age of 20. That tends to indicate a degree of talent in an athelete. Sure, converting track & time trial ability into GC contender ability is bloody hard and, for some atheletes such as Boardman, not apparently possible. Wiggins hasn’t mastered it yet and perhaps never will, but his TdF 4th place in 2009 put him ahead of Frank Schleck, Kloden & Nibali.

This suggests to me that two years down the line, when he has learnt a bit more about how to use his body and has lost further weight, we shouldn’t be too surprised to see him get a Vuelta top ten (particularly as its not been quite as horrifically mountainous as I was expecting). The number of favourites who have failed at the Vuelta has been pretty amazing and therefore a converting an expected possible Vuelta top ten into a Vuelta podium (or even victory) doesn’t strike me as too outlandish for an athelete of that fairly extreme calibre. Additionally, unlike Cobo, Wiggins has managed to put in strong performances for multiple teams.

More on topic, as I’ve said, I’m not here to convince people. If folk think the performances of Wiggins, Froome & Cobo are equally suspicious then fair enough. Its just a position I personally find impossible to share based on the information available.

If anyone can point to Froome topping 6 w/kg on a prolonged mountain climb (rather than skewed figures relating to a short burst of 3 or 4 kms at the end of stage), I’d be interested in reading that (in the Sky thread).

Totally idiotic again.

Quite. I fear I must defer to your superior knowledge of the realms of idiocy.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

I know what you're thinking but the teams that Froome was in pre 2010 season do not really compare to Team Sky.

Has it acutally ever been proven that team sky is contributing anything new to the sport? Yeah, they are supposed to be scientific, but who isn't?
All I know is that they claim to be special. I even remember a DS pointing out that what Sky promoted as being revolutionary they were doing for years already.
I'm not saying they aren't a very professional set up team, but I don't see a real reason why it would make such a big impact on a rider living up to his physical potential yet.

 

[Arnout]

you base it one what?

Well, some people that raced with him consistently tell that Vandenbrouck (not Vdb it only confuses) doped as junior, with material provided by a current commentator of Sporza (and former DS of Omega Pharma Lotto in one of its earlier incarnations), Declerq I think it is.

Doesn't tell anything about the current situation, but it might be he heard the same rumors.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Can I have a summary ?
What are the conclusions ?
Is Cobo doping ?

 

[Arnout]

All three questions: No.

 

[pmcg76]

Looks like its not just forum members who are casting doubts on Cobo.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/9...ancois-Bernard-doubts-Cobos-authenticity.aspx

But then Bernard rode in the service of Indurain so pot-kettle-black.

 

[Benotti69]

You should take into account that VDB changed his life dramatically around that time. Before that age, he felt like he was going nowhere with his career. He moved to Spain and did some high altitude stages in Italy, whereas before he didn't do anything like that. Here you have somebody who is willing to invest in his career. It even costed him a relationship. Here in Belgium we saw some images of VDB in the month of may, training in the snow of the Alps whereas it was beautiful weather in Belgium. That ****list of the UCI doesn't prove a thing: I mean, Cancellara was at level 0/10 and there were virtually no French riders on that list. I believe in Vdb, but i don't believe in Cobo. He came back after a big depression and gave away an incredible show yesterday. Credits for that, but i'm not buying it...

we heard something very similar when a certain athlete came back from cancer in 1999, changed cadence, changed body shape, reconnaissance of the stages lots of times before the race etc etc

 

[hrotha]

Looks like its not just forum members who are casting doubts on Cobo.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/9...ancois-Bernard-doubts-Cobos-authenticity.aspx

But then Bernard rode in the service of Indurain so pot-kettle-black.

Different times. Few people seem to have a problem with Kimmage.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Has it acutally ever been proven that team sky is contributing anything new to the sport? Yeah, they are supposed to be scientific, but who isn't?
All I know is that they claim to be special. I even remember a DS pointing out that what Sky promoted as being revolutionary they were doing for years already.

"I put riders in wind tunnels too. But I don't have to put out a press release to tell people" - Marc Madiot

 

[Fergoose]

Looks like its not just forum members who are casting doubts on Cobo.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/9...ancois-Bernard-doubts-Cobos-authenticity.aspx

But then Bernard rode in the service of Indurain so pot-kettle-black.

Grossly unfair! What I want to know is what are Bernard & His Nibs saying about Froome, eh? Answer me that!

And are we at the point where people don't accept that the multi-million pound funding of Sky combined with the proven expertise Dave Brailsford represents at least a slight step up in organisation from Barloworld?

Are people so hell bent on maintaining their position that they can't even concede the blindingly obvious?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Grossly unfair! What I want to know is what are Bernard & His Nibs saying about Froome, eh? Answer me that!

And are we at the point where people don't accept that the multi-million pound funding of Sky combined with the proven expertise Dave Brailsford represents at least a slight step up in organisation from Barloworld?

Of course it does. But Froome has been riding in Team Sky for nearly 2 years whilst providing returns that are actually less than at Barloworld, then has suddenly turned from a donkey into a racehorse.

Mosquera in '07 and Kohl in '08 were less ridiculously left-field. And if Team Sky is that much of an upgrade, why have the other riders not had the same miraculous sudden reinvention? No, the guy has suddenly gone from hitting the miraculous heights of scraping the top 10 in a mountain stage of the Brixia Tour and an easy climb in the Tour de Romandie, even after 18 months nicely nestled in Team Sky, to making mincemeat of GT winners and finishing less than a minute down on one of the hardest climbs in the world, behind a guy who has an infinitely better palmarès than him and is probably up to his eyeballs in dope, all in a matter of two weeks. I'll stick to my initial perception.

At least there were two months between Wiggins' first "wow that's a good mountain ride by him" event (Siusi, Giro '09) and his miraculous GC (in a race that suited him to a T). And then he had to struggle to adapt to life as a contender and reinvent himself as a climber. Froome has gone in less than a week from "wow, I didn't expect him to put in a performance like that" as a domestique to "is hanging on to the coattails of suspected dopers and dropping his team leader, who is also putting in the performance of his life rather than failing".

 

[brollebol]

Well, some people that raced with him consistently tell that Vandenbrouck (not Vdb it only confuses) doped as junior, with material provided by a current commentator of Sporza (and former DS of Omega Pharma Lotto in one of its earlier incarnations), Declerq I think it is.

Doesn't tell anything about the current situation, but it might be he heard the same rumors.

The man you are talking about is Jose de Cauwer, but after a quick google search I couldn't find any doping-related connection between de Cauwer and JvdB. (I did however find a connection between de Cauwer and dope.)

 

[hrotha]

The man you are talking about is Jose de Cauwer, but after a quick google search I couldn't find any doping-related connection between de Cauwer and JvdB. (I did however find a connection between de Cauwer and dope.)

He's talking about insider knowledge/rumours that circulated among those who raced with him. The only references you'd be able to find would be other forums.

 

[Hugh Januss]

He's talking about insider knowledge/rumours that circulated among those who raced with him. The only references you'd be able to find would be other forums.

Well if it hasn't been proven in a court of............

 

[Mambo95]

Of course it does. But Froome has been riding in Team Sky for nearly 2 years whilst providing returns that are actually less than at Barloworld, then has suddenly turned from a donkey into a racehorse.

Last year he had a knee injury and this year he's had a parasitic disease. He's just in good health for possibly the first time at Sky,

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Last year he had a knee injury and this year he's had a parasitic disease. He's just in good health for possibly the first time at Sky,

and that's it, is it? He's in good health ergo he must be doing this clean? Froome in good health is suddenly better clean than everybody else bar an obvious doper who still can't put a minute into him on Anglirú?

If he is in good health, I would expect an improvement. I won't raise my eyebrows at a day like he had on La Covatilla - maybe he is better than we thought and was on a really good day. But by this point in the race, given that he hasn't done anything like this ever, or even shown that it was likely (Fuglsang showed at that Dauphiné, for example, that he had the possibility of breaking out), it just becomes more than a bit fishy.