Compare a current cyclist to a retired cyclist

[TMP402]

Thinking about the Landa-Pantani comparison nickname, I was wondering who in the current peloton is most like these retired cyclists:

Oscar Freire
Paolo Bettini
Erik Zabel
Tony Rominger
Laurent Jalabert
Roberto Heras
Danilo di Luca
Carlos Sastre
Óscar Pereiro
Denis Menchov
Joop Zoetemelk
Stijn Devolder (* not actually retired, but you know)
Francesco Moser
Stephen Roche
Nick Nuyens
Andy Hampsten
Juan Antonio Flecha
Alessandro Petacchi
Mario Cipollini
Robbie McEwen
Thor Hushovd
Michael Rasmussen
Stefano Garzelli

I don't mean looks or style or personality, I mean capabilities/talent as a rider during their good years. On that basis which current cyclist do you most associate with these guys? And please don't just state half of them are like Sagan! One is probably more Matthews than Sagan, or Degenkolb than Kristoff, etc.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Oscar Freire - Michael Matthews
Danilo di Luca - Julian Alaphilippe
Carlos Sastre - Adam Yates
Francesco Moser - Gianni Moscon
Thor Hushovd - Arnaud Démare
Stefano Garzelli - Thibaut Pinot

 

[Carols]

Pantani and Landa have very little in common....... Certainly not style on the bike, panache, talent or palmares. Landa's entire story is yet to be written but I see no similarities to Il Pirata to date. Well they both can climb but that is about it. Landa hasn't shown anything that puts him in Pantani's class as a climber. Only Contador in his heyday has ever come close to matching Pantani as a climber.

 

[Durden93]

Re:

Pantani and Landa have very little in common....... Certainly not style on the bike, panache, talent or palmares. Landa's entire story is yet to be written but I see no similarities to Il Pirata to date. Well they both can climb but that is about it. Landa hasn't shown anything that puts him in Pantani's class as a climber. Only Contador in his heyday has ever come close to matching Pantani as a climber.

Thank you. Landa is a great rider but it isn't fair to him to compare him to Pantani.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

Pantani and Landa have very little in common....... Certainly not style on the bike, panache, talent or palmares. Landa's entire story is yet to be written but I see no similarities to Il Pirata to date. Well they both can climb but that is about it. Landa hasn't shown anything that puts him in Pantani's class as a climber. Only Contador in his heyday has ever come close to matching Pantani as a climber.

Thank you. Landa is a great rider but it isn't fair to him to compare him to Pantani.

I agree, I just meant that the nickname prompted my thought.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Fausto Coppi - Louis Meintjens

 

[Netserk]

Chris Froome - Lance Armstrong

 

[DFA123]

Finding this a bit difficult, because so many on that list are so strongly associated with clinic stuff, that it feels a bit perjorative comparing current riders to them.

One obvious one to me though is: Bettini - Gilbert
Both are all-rounders who excel on hilly one day courses, and both tend to either win or finish off the podium; not many big placings on either of their palmares.

 

[Ruby United]

Oscar Freire - Michael Mathews
Paolo Bettini - Phillipe Gilbert (in his prime)
Erik Zabel - Fernando Gaviria (Zabel is a more rounded cyclist, but Gav will progress)
Tony Rominger - Tom Dumoulin
Laurent Jalabert - Warren Barguil
Roberto Heras - Fabio Aru
Danilo di Luca - Alessandro Valverde (Valverde is a much better GC rider, but...)
Carlos Sastre - Rigoberto Uran (in 2017 Tour form)
Óscar Pereiro - Haimar Zubeldia (?)
Joop Zoetemelk - Andy Schleck* (with Rigoberto Uran's wheel-sucking skills)
Stephen Roche - Chris Froome (Froome is better for sure, but Roche '87 was crazy good)

*Not really current


Can't be bothered to do more :redface:

 

[Ruby United]

Re:

Fausto Coppi - Louis Meintjens

A disgrace to the Great Fausto Coppi

 

[hrotha]

Early Roberto Heras - Fabio Aru

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

Finding this a bit difficult, because so many on that list are so strongly associated with clinic stuff, that it feels a bit perjorative comparing current riders to them.

One obvious one to me though is: Bettini - Gilbert
Both are all-rounders who excel on hilly one day courses, and both tend to either win or finish off the podium; not many big placings on either of their palmares.

Kwiatkowski is a bit like Bettini too (if you ignore Michal's climbing ability). They both have an ability to win big races even when not in the best shape, and both are very smart racers.

 

[Brullnux]

Cipo = Kittel. That to me is the one of the easiest. Cipo is more flamboyant but Kittel has a personality as well.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Finding this a bit difficult, because so many on that list are so strongly associated with clinic stuff, that it feels a bit perjorative comparing current riders to them.

One obvious one to me though is: Bettini - Gilbert
Both are all-rounders who excel on hilly one day courses, and both tend to either win or finish off the podium; not many big placings on either of their palmares.

Kwiatkowski is a bit like Bettini too (if you ignore Michal's climbing ability). They both have an ability to win big races even when not in the best shape, and both are very smart racers.

Yeah, Kwiatkowski is definitely another one with a great converstion rate from promising positions. I think Kwiat might be even more rounded though, with his TTing and stage racing ability. It's unfair how talented he is really.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re:

Cipo = Kittel. That to me is the one of the easiest. Cipo is more flamboyant but Kittel has a personality as well.

Yeah, he should go to Katusha Team and do their shampoo ad. Atleast their product will be a little more believable..

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re:

Oscar Freire - Michael Mathews
Paolo Bettini - Phillipe Gilbert (in his prime)
Erik Zabel - Fernando Gaviria (Zabel is a more rounded cyclist, but Gav will progress)
Tony Rominger - Tom Dumoulin
Laurent Jalabert - Warren Barguil
Roberto Heras - Fabio Aru
Danilo di Luca - Alessandro Valverde (Valverde is a much better GC rider, but...)
Carlos Sastre - Rigoberto Uran (in 2017 Tour form)
Óscar Pereiro - Haimar Zubeldia (?)
Joop Zoetemelk - Andy Schleck* (with Rigoberto Uran's wheel-sucking skills)
Stephen Roche - Chris Froome (Froome is better for sure, but Roche '87 was crazy good)

*Not really current


Can't be bothered to do more :redface:

I do agree with Heras-Aru.
They are the same type of rider and were both precocious in GTs.

Bettini-Gilbert is also quite a similar comparison, although there are some differences.

But I'm afraid can't agree with any of the other comparisons, the riders in question range from a bit different to diametrically opposed. I won't bore you with details

Cipo = Kittel. That to me is the one of the easiest. Cipo is more flamboyant but Kittel has a personality as well.

Cipo had allround ability that Kittel never had. He just rarely used it. I don't expect to see Kittel finishing top 10 in a climbing time trial anytime soon.

Finding this a bit difficult, because so many on that list are so strongly associated with clinic stuff, that it feels a bit perjorative comparing current riders to them.

One obvious one to me though is: Bettini - Gilbert
Both are all-rounders who excel on hilly one day courses, and both tend to either win or finish off the podium; not many big placings on either of their palmares.

Kwiatkowski is a bit like Bettini too (if you ignore Michal's climbing ability). They both have an ability to win big races even when not in the best shape, and both are very smart racers.

1998 Giro d'Italia General classification

1	 Marco Pantani
2	 Pavel Tonkov                      + 1' 33"
3	 Giuseppe Guerini + 6' 51"
4	 Oscar Camenzind + 12' 16"
5	 Daniel Clavero + 18' 04"
6	 Gianni Faresin + 18' 31"
7	 Paolo Bettini + 21' 03"
8	 Daniele De Paoli + 21' 35"
9	 Paolo Savoldelli + 25' 54"
10	 Serhiy Honchar + 25' 58"

"While my climbing would be good enough in time, I realized I would never time trial well enough to win the Giro so I gained weight and focused on my sprint" - Paolo Bettini

Fausto Coppi - Louis Meintjens

:lol: Nice

 

[Durden93]

Dan Martin- Joaquim Rodriguez

 

[kingjr]

I would say Meintjes-Horner, but is Horner even officially retired? And Zabel is definitely more like a mix between Kittel-Degenkolb and totally unlike Gaviria imo.

Oh and I only juzst read the first post properly, so ignore the first part of my post.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Most of these have a very specific set of talents, so there will be no one who is currently the same.

Oscar Freire - Giorgia Bronzini

Paolo Bettini - Gilbert would be closest. Bettini's sprinting and climbing were better, Gilbert is a better fit for the cobbles.

Erik Zabel - Again, there are many who are better at this, worse at that. Nobody who fits the mould really well.
Tony Rominger - Right now there's not a soul on the planet who can outclimb and out TT everyone on his day, focuses year round and attacks all the time. Maybe 2013 Froome, but that was 4 years ago

Laurent Jalabert - Allrounders to like this don't exist anymore.

Roberto Heras - Aru

Danilo di Luca - While not perfect, Dan Martin isn't a bad fit.

Carlos Sastre - Landa, perhaps. These are more common, as the diesel climber is a common cycling stereotype.

Óscar Pereiro - If someone like Adam Yates descended as Bardet does. Bardet 2015 would be a great fit.

Denis Menchov - Nobody really fits.

Joop Zoetemelk - If Porte could finish a grand tour

Stijn Devolder (* not actually retired, but you know) - Lampaert if he gets a leading chance

Francesco Moser - See Jalabert. If allrounders to that degree don't exist, then what to say of an allrounder of this level?

Stephen Roche - See, the reason most of these GC guys don't fit anyone is that today's GTs are so mountain centric that there's really nobody who's up there for TT wins and hanging on in the mountains. I guess Dumoulin would fit best but there's still some difference

Nick Nuyens - Zdenek Stybar

Andy Hampsten - Pinot

Juan Antonio Flecha - There's no one.

Alessandro Petacchi - Nope

Mario Cipollini - See above

Robbie McEwen - Cavendish

Thor Hushovd - Kristoff, funnily enough

Michael Rasmussen - This month's Barguil

Stefano Garzelli - If Valverde was slightly worse at everything...Megan Guarnier?

That about cover it?

 

[Laplaz]

Andy Schleck - Pierre Rolland (only the style)
Zubeldia - Meintjes
Merckx - Pippo Pozzato

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Most of these have a very specific set of talents, so there will be no one who is currently the same.

Nick Nuyens - Zdenek Stybar

That about cover it?

I've never thought about that, but it's actually so true!

 

[hrotha]

If Spilak suddenly found the endurance to do GTs at the top level in his old age, he might be the closest thing to Rominger.

 

[Derjanse]

Oscar Freire- Michael Matthews Almost spot On Michael is a better climber tough
Paolo Bettini- Gilbert is the Best option
Erik Zabel- Demare Not the Best sprinter But great overall
Tony Rominger
Laurent Jalabert - That is a very Hard one. Greg Van avermaet
Roberto Heras- Bardet/Quintana both Grey uphill and bad at TT also both Can win the Vuelta But Not the Tour
Danilo di Luca- Valverde is a better version of DI luca
Carlos Sastre- Adam Yates is the closet
Óscar Pereiro- Voeckler at his Best both great downhill
Denis Menchov- Zakarin both diesel engine That are good But Not great at tt and uphill driving
Nick Nuyens- greg Van avermaet
Juan Antonio Flecha- De genet is very close
Alessandro Petacchi- Kittel
Mario Cipo- also Kittel
Robbie McEwen- Cavendish
Thor Hushovd- Boason hagen both norwegian and good sprinters That Can also be part of a breakaway
Michael Rasmussen, barguill and Majka Barguill is closer AS both him and Michael Could finish the Tour in the top 5.
Stefano Garzelli- Aru

The rest i am to Young to know

 

[Libertine Seguros]

George Hincapie / Geraint Thomas
Tadej Valjavec / Louis Meintjes
David Blanco / Gustavo César Veloso
Djamolidine Abdoujaparov / Nacer Bouhanni

 

[GuyIncognito]

Oscar Freire- Michael Matthews Almost spot On Michael is a better climber tough

This is a common comparison, but I feel it's not accurate. Matthews is much better in any kind of TT and hasn't shown anything on the cobbles.

Most importantly, what made Freire so special and unique is that as distance increased his chances improved massively. In a short sprint stage he was an outsider with a decent chance (a better chance than Matthews unless there are hills involved). When the distance increased, Freire became far more likely to win, to the point of being hard to stop. Distance does nothing to improve Matthews' chances, only the climbs benefit him not the distance.

They are also different in their sprint style. Freire had an incredible initial kick, it was flabbergasting that anyone could accelerate so quickly. That's not the case with Matthews, who in terms of sprint style is quite normal.

Matthews looks like a 22 year old Jalabert, before the Frenchman learned to climb and started winning stage races.

Stefano Garzelli- Aru

Garzelli was not a pure climber. He was good but not the best TTs, good but not the best on the climbs, and was fast enough to win bunch sprints from a reduced 50-60 rider peloton or in a full peloton on a 2-3% gradient, which he did regularly. A very different rider from Aru.

Most of Garzelli's wins came in the typical Valverde way. Aru is a pure climber.

Djamolidine Abdoujaparov / Nacer Bouhanni

The Hincapie/Thomas comparison is brilliant. Such a specific combination of skills that they both fit into the same mould. Well, Hincapie isn't a bad bike handler who's constantly crashing, but otherwise perfect.

If Spilak suddenly found the endurance to do GTs at the top level in his old age, he might be the closest thing to Rominger.

Kinda yeah, and they both were nowhere in the heat.

Rominger came close to winning a GT very early in his career which Spilak has never done. Plus, he won week long stage races in better participation than Spilak's. Also, he tended to drop the GC contenders time and again in GT 1st weeks.

But yeah, overall Spilak has the same characteristics as a younger Rominger and the same weakness to warm weather and GT third weeks. Spilak's a weaker version but does have the same characteristics.