Why are so many non-professional cyclists so consumed by componentry weight? So many times I see people sending thousands on conponentry then they need simply due to savings in a few grams when they are kilos overweight!
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Component's weight.
- Thread starter Argon Man
- Start date
Argon Man said:Why are so many non-professional cyclists so consumed by componentry weight? So many times I see people sending thousands on conponentry then they need simply due to savings in a few grams when they are kilos overweight!
Are you familiar with the term "douche". It is always hilarious to listen to some tool go on and on about the weight of this and all the while you are eying their gut and thinking he could have done better by cutting back on the Monday morning juice and blueberry muffins at the office.
+1
.....and the "douche" is usually more concerned about fashion rather than weight. I believe most know that saving grams is not going to get them to the coffee shop faster, it's strictly about the bling factor and the "look at me" philosophy. Even club level racers who can't have a normal conversation without talking about "considerable weight savings", maybe 100 gram, don't even realize how dumb they sound. But we shant deny them for lack of effort, or deep pocket books.
.....and the "douche" is usually more concerned about fashion rather than weight. I believe most know that saving grams is not going to get them to the coffee shop faster, it's strictly about the bling factor and the "look at me" philosophy. Even club level racers who can't have a normal conversation without talking about "considerable weight savings", maybe 100 gram, don't even realize how dumb they sound. But we shant deny them for lack of effort, or deep pocket books.
Just bragging rights really, people love to have the latest and greatest and if that's how they want to spend their money, great, that's up to them...
We do it because we can and others can't. Same with houses, cars and boats. Success = the one with the most and best toys.
I think there is a point where it goes beyond buying something nice and crosses over into poseurland. The line is crossed when you start pretending that it will make a significant difference and you are not even in a position where it matters. Jeebus knows I have spent way more money than I need or my athletic talent can justify on bike equipment, mountaineering gear, cars, etc. But I try to be straight up about it and admit that I buy things because just because they are nice or somewhat exclusive or look good or whatever.
It is one thing for an amateur racer to buy aero equipment or lightweight gear. They might not make a huge difference. It won't turn you into a pro. But if you are in the game, you might as well play it too the hilt. It is quite another thing for a recreational cyclist, whose big event for the year is a charity century or two, to bore you to tears as they explain why they need to buy this or that, and you know they have never raced in their life and never will.
It is one thing for an amateur racer to buy aero equipment or lightweight gear. They might not make a huge difference. It won't turn you into a pro. But if you are in the game, you might as well play it too the hilt. It is quite another thing for a recreational cyclist, whose big event for the year is a charity century or two, to bore you to tears as they explain why they need to buy this or that, and you know they have never raced in their life and never will.
Sheltowee said:
I roll through a lot of neighborhoods of people that think like this, and have boinked a couple of your wives while you're pushing pencils at your 9 to 5.
Just the facts please...
It is still amazing how much people believe that mass (weight) makes a huge difference. A lost pound or so on the bike is still less than 1% of the rider bike total for a 150 lb rider. This does not matter much unless you are looking at long and steeper climbs, even then it is not huge. This is simple high school physics. When people say that they can feel the difference in acceleration with a lighter bike or wheels they are talking out of their arses. It is nonsense when all other factors are the same. It is a placebo effect.
The measurable differences in acceleration (final velocity for equal efforts) would be in the order 0.02mph from 0-25 mph and the distance lost would be less than the thickness of a tire at 600 watts output (the distance is less at a higher power output). All these differences are reduced as the riders mass and power outputs increase! Even at the level of the Pros this does not add up to a hill of beans. The bottom line is that real performance is not a function of weight it is a function of design. When good design (performance) takes a back seat to concerns of mass then SNAP; you are eating tarmac. Lighter does not equal better. Something has to give, you can not always get light, strong, and durable in the same component. Real data matters everything else is marketing BS or imagined.
Now I have to go and ride my 14 pound bike up and down my street with my 250 pound **** on it while I rant about how manipulative the marketing of this stuff is.
It is still amazing how much people believe that mass (weight) makes a huge difference. A lost pound or so on the bike is still less than 1% of the rider bike total for a 150 lb rider. This does not matter much unless you are looking at long and steeper climbs, even then it is not huge. This is simple high school physics. When people say that they can feel the difference in acceleration with a lighter bike or wheels they are talking out of their arses. It is nonsense when all other factors are the same. It is a placebo effect.
The measurable differences in acceleration (final velocity for equal efforts) would be in the order 0.02mph from 0-25 mph and the distance lost would be less than the thickness of a tire at 600 watts output (the distance is less at a higher power output). All these differences are reduced as the riders mass and power outputs increase! Even at the level of the Pros this does not add up to a hill of beans. The bottom line is that real performance is not a function of weight it is a function of design. When good design (performance) takes a back seat to concerns of mass then SNAP; you are eating tarmac. Lighter does not equal better. Something has to give, you can not always get light, strong, and durable in the same component. Real data matters everything else is marketing BS or imagined.
Now I have to go and ride my 14 pound bike up and down my street with my 250 pound **** on it while I rant about how manipulative the marketing of this stuff is.
When I am recovered I will do a local climb with my power meter on my training bike and my racing bike, I will keep it at the same power output and see what the time difference is...
While I am not a weight-weenie for the very reasons mentioned here, I have no problems with people investing in the cycle industry if they have the money and the inclination. It doesn't hurt the non-weight weenies because we know better anyway. And bottom line, whether you are a weekend warrior or pro, we all jump on our bikes, regardless of whether we are running 105 or Di2, and enjoy riding. Simple as that. Isn't that what it is really meant to be about, rather than worrying about componentry someone else is riding?
elapid said:
It's easy to take the high road when it comes to this topic, but if you've ever worked any significant time at a bike shop, customer enthusiasm doesn't always walk hand in hand with common sense. The form is the perfect place to vent, and I can call out the idiot that wants to buy race wheels for everyday use and not worry about any ramifications. How sweet is that.
The funny thing is that the older we get and the more money we make the less time we have to stay fit. I have found that the only people that can afford these super high end machines are the least likely to use them (properly).
On the other hand, why not buy a nice bike if you love cycling! I know I did
Yes i bought a bike that could be used by a pro and I ride like an amateur, I can live with that cuz now I have a very sweet ride and I love it. Do I measure every ounce I put on the bike.... no but I do think about weight and performance when I need to replace anything. For sure the best place to start losing weight is the belly next is wheels but only if you want to head to the hills.
Personally I would rather see people spend money on bikes then bombs or golf clubs, but that is me.
On the other hand, why not buy a nice bike if you love cycling! I know I did
Yes i bought a bike that could be used by a pro and I ride like an amateur, I can live with that cuz now I have a very sweet ride and I love it. Do I measure every ounce I put on the bike.... no but I do think about weight and performance when I need to replace anything. For sure the best place to start losing weight is the belly next is wheels but only if you want to head to the hills.
Personally I would rather see people spend money on bikes then bombs or golf clubs, but that is me.
I am with St. Elia. Yes, there are going to be some people out there that have more money than sense. I may well be one of them. After lots of research, but not enough test rides, in deciding between titanium and carbon, I ultimately went for a custom-made titanium Lynskey. I don't need custom and I didn't need their highest level machine. A year later my wife is test riding bikes and so I decide to have a dabble as well. I immediately fell in love with the Cervelo R3, particularly its bottom bracket stiffness and energy transfer to the rear wheel. I found that this bike was superior in performance and just as comfortable as the Lynskey. I have now saved up for this bike and will pay it off within the month. Do I need the R3? No. But it certainly is fun to ride and why not enjoy the ride? However, I didn't see the point in buying the R3-SL which is $1000+ more for the same geometry but saving a few 100 grams.
Bikes and componentry are fed by the pro peloton. All of these companies (Shimano, Campy, SRAM, FSA, Zipp, etc) rely on the trickle down effect because they would not make money if only people that deserved these components and wheels actually rode them.
However, what worries me more is that new people to cycling may get put off by seeing the bling in cycling and deciding they cannot afford it. I love going to Europe and seeing people of all ages hopping on bikes in street clothes to do their chores and commute, and not worrying about bikes they are riding or the clothes they are wearing.
Bikes and componentry are fed by the pro peloton. All of these companies (Shimano, Campy, SRAM, FSA, Zipp, etc) rely on the trickle down effect because they would not make money if only people that deserved these components and wheels actually rode them.
However, what worries me more is that new people to cycling may get put off by seeing the bling in cycling and deciding they cannot afford it. I love going to Europe and seeing people of all ages hopping on bikes in street clothes to do their chores and commute, and not worrying about bikes they are riding or the clothes they are wearing.
St. Elia said:The funny thing is that the older we get and the more money we make the less time we have to stay fit. I have found that the only people that can afford these super high end machines are the least likely to use them (properly).
On the other hand, why not buy a nice bike if you love cycling! I know I did
Yes i bought a bike that could be used by a pro and I ride like an amateur, I can live with that cuz now I have a very sweet ride and I love it. Do I measure every ounce I put on the bike.... no but I do think about weight and performance when I need to replace anything. For sure the best place to start losing weight is the belly next is wheels but only if you want to head to the hills.
Personally I would rather see people spend money on bikes then bombs or golf clubs, but that is me.
Watching a few minutes of the 'Masters'(golf, not a golfer but the game, players and equipment is interesting) I see many similarities with cycling. First, more and more of the players have adverts on their shirts and hats. Not just golf stuff but cars, shoes, insurance companies. Second, like pro cyclists, they generally don't pay for their equipment and like Pro cyclists, probably any golf stuff will do if it fits them. I'm sure Ping or TaylorMade or whatever golf equipment is good stuff and will get that teeny ball down the fairway and into that hole. Only amateurs, the people that play casually and watch either cycling or golf, really care about which equipment each uses and "gotta buy that very same thing". Like golf, it's the rider(player) not the bicycle(golf club) that gets the guy to the end.
Watch some golf channel and see all the gadgets foisted to make you a better player, read some bike mags or websites and see all the gadgets foisted to make you a stronger cyclist but like one guy said, it's the Indian, not the arrow.
Pietro said:
Yep, I said "It's not the arrow, It's the Indian" back in the recommendations for road wheels thread. Didn't matter anyway cuz the guy was set on racing wheels for everyday use. Like I said before, enthusiasm doesn't always walk hand in hand with common sense, and this guy was just one example.
It's one thing if you have money to burn on over hyped equipment and false technology, good for ya'll, I have no problems with that because it keeps our industry rolling. The way I talk you'd think I'm anti-technology, but that's not the case. I have plenty of high end stuff, the difference is that I've spent most of my professional career in just about every facet of the industry and I know what works and what doesn't, for the most part. Going back to my bike shop days, if any of you ever had to sit there and listen to average cyclists (not even racers) contemplate for an hour over a few grams, or aero this and carbon that, you'd know where I'm coming from, and that's what this thread was all about anyway.
Well RDV4ROUBIAX, at least your customers are thinking about it, which with time that thinking may sink in. At first it maybe a peer pressure thought and later a "do I want to pay for the part I have to replace again after X miles", all the while you are selling! Any noobie to the sport or any sport goes through it, you've been there and seen it all (according to you) but some people live through their own experiences so they need to go through it, that's all. There's nothing like testing the product yourself no matter what the world may think, it may actually fit/work for that person and not you.
You can always attempt to pass on your knowledge and experiences but its still up to the person/customer to make their own decisions. Then again if they follow your recommendations and it doesn't work for them, then its all on you.
You can always attempt to pass on your knowledge and experiences but its still up to the person/customer to make their own decisions. Then again if they follow your recommendations and it doesn't work for them, then its all on you.
ElChingon,
I don't work at the shop anymore as I was talking about it in the past tense, thought that was pretty obvious. I guess if you've never worked at a shop before you have no idea what I mean. You can give all the best advice in the world to some of these punters, but they will never understand. Obsession with a few grams is irrelevant, unless racing is your job and your gunning for a large purse on a national or international circuit. I was working at the shop in the height of the Lance years, so you could only imagine the complete dorkdom going on at the shops. The Lance clones were lining up at the doors before we even opened in the mornings preparing to waste my time with their lame gram counting arguments that did not even apply to them. Great for sales, but a pain in the @ss to deal with.
I don't work at the shop anymore as I was talking about it in the past tense, thought that was pretty obvious. I guess if you've never worked at a shop before you have no idea what I mean. You can give all the best advice in the world to some of these punters, but they will never understand. Obsession with a few grams is irrelevant, unless racing is your job and your gunning for a large purse on a national or international circuit. I was working at the shop in the height of the Lance years, so you could only imagine the complete dorkdom going on at the shops. The Lance clones were lining up at the doors before we even opened in the mornings preparing to waste my time with their lame gram counting arguments that did not even apply to them. Great for sales, but a pain in the @ss to deal with.
Its a good thing you don't work at a shop anymore, the rest of us can reap the benefits , they can talk all they want but it doesn't mean I'm listening, the beauty of a radio in the shop. I'll make sure to store my bottles when I ride with ya in your back pockets, it doesn't matter to you anyway.
, they can talk all they want but it doesn't mean I'm listening, the beauty of a radio in the shop. I'll make sure to store my bottles when I ride with ya in your back pockets, it doesn't matter to you anyway.
Nice. Why are you here anyway? You must be one of "them". If you don't like what you hear, change the channel. D*ck
See that's why its good you're not in the shop anymore, its that same kind of attitude that hurts the business, which is hate. The business will be that much better in the future for us non-haters.
For you I'd recommend some couch time with a shrink, a forum is not your answer.
For you I'd recommend some couch time with a shrink, a forum is not your answer.
Can't make you understand something you don't want to. My advice to you is don't float around here stirring the pot, then you wouldn't get responses like this.
We all understand the curmudgeons of the world, its their way or nothing there is no option but theirs, because they say so.
Flexibility and understanding, especially a customer is what differentiates a shop who makes money and stays open versus a shop that goes out of business.
Again, it maybe the wrong wheel/bike/component based on its intended purpose but at the end of the day, its being used incorrectly or to your satisfaction, its being used. Heck they could hang it on the wall for all it matters, and your say at the end matters not.
Flexibility and understanding, especially a customer is what differentiates a shop who makes money and stays open versus a shop that goes out of business.
Again, it maybe the wrong wheel/bike/component based on its intended purpose but at the end of the day, its being used incorrectly or to your satisfaction, its being used. Heck they could hang it on the wall for all it matters, and your say at the end matters not.
Funny. Back at the old shop we had a running streak of Best Bike Shop in our city paper for 4 of the 5 years my friends and I were there. When we finally had enough of the d*ckhead owner, most of us left and that shop went completely downhill.
Back to the matter at hand. Least you forget that you attacked me for merely pointing out the fact that I was talking about the shop in the past tense. It's there on the 2nd page for everyone to see.
Pretty crass response for a simple time frame correction, wouldn't you say? Who's the curmudgeon again?
Back to the matter at hand. Least you forget that you attacked me for merely pointing out the fact that I was talking about the shop in the past tense. It's there on the 2nd page for everyone to see.
ElChingon said:Its a good thing you don't work at a shop anymore, the rest of us can reap the benefits
Pretty crass response for a simple time frame correction, wouldn't you say? Who's the curmudgeon again?
RDV4ROUBAIX said:
Attack? Maybe made fun of your lack of concern for weight but attack, boy sensitive are we. Time to go out for a ride man, assuming you enjoy riding.
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