Comprehensive Climbers Ranking

[vappa]

After redoing my Cipressa and Poggio segments, my numbers for MSR:

Tadej Pogacar | 108 (+1): 7.94 W/kg for 8:49 on Cipressa (MSR 2026)

Pidcock and van der Poel did 7.47 and 7.42 w/kg respectively. As Pidcock is a bit under 60kg, he did even slightly more in real watts/kg and van der Poel (75kg) did much less (~6.9+ w/kg).

This is the third highest Index in my database, although Pogacar also slightly 'profits' from the use of 60kg eW/kg here. A consideration in the other direction is that the pacing was less regular than on PdB, making this more impressive.


[I said I won't publish my Poggio numbers anymore due the extremely high uncertainties, so take this with an extra grain of salt: Even after giving a substantial penalty for motor-drafting, I still calculated ~8 w/kg for 5:44 on Poggio. This would (after positive adjustments due to the prior Cipressa effort) result in a final Index of around 100 for the Poggio.]

Two consecutive efforts of 100+ are unprecedented, making this a candidate for the strongest overall w/kg performance in history. Of course you can argue that the watts are somewhat 'wasted' for a race like MSR, where there are easier ways to win. You can decide for yourself if this makes the performance more or less impressive.



Finally: Pogacar did around 0.2+ w/kg more than last year on both climbs (8+ Index points). Last years Cipressa (now 98 after recalc, which was in the Top 24 list will be replaced by this years).
MvdP did similar watts as last year on Cipressa and slightly more on Poggio (though with much more regular pacing making this easier).

Overall, I tried to be too low rather than too high with the result, but it is still not certain by any means. If I get new information in the future about CdA, CRR or measured power numbers etc. I might still correct the calculation again.

If it helps your calculation in any way, apparently he used 28mm tires instead of 30mm like last year

 

[Peyresourde]

If it helps your calculation in any way, apparently he used 28mm tires instead of 30mm like last year

Thanks, but this is too specific to be of help. Nobody can calculate the exact difference in CdA just based on the components used. He also used a new helmet that I assume is a bit faster.

 

[Red Rick]

He's also fatter, which is more aero.

 

[Red Rick]

The CdA I used is still a bit higher. 0.25 really seems unrealistically low if you look at their (or specifically Pogacar's) position on the bike while climbing, especially considering the standing attacks. Or do you have a source/basis for using 0.25?

No I just remember 0.25 being used on some climbs, but I think that was partially drafting.

Pog should also get a small aero benefit from Pidcock being in his wheel.

 

[Peyresourde]

No I just remember 0.25 being used on some climbs, but I think that was partially drafting.

Pog should also get a small aero benefit from Pidcock being in his wheel.

The benefit of having 1 rider on your wheel should be about 1 %. I do consider that already.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

He's also fatter, which is more aero.

An interesting question is what weight is optimal for Pogacar for a fast climb like Cipressa? Probably not his skinniest 64 kg version. Unfortunately it's impossible to simulate without knowing his power gains when at 66-68 kg (they are likely considerably lower than 6 watts per additional kg at threshold).

Obviously when there's a very strong tailwind than the skinniest version could be the best but I'm assuming neutral conditions.

 

[Peyresourde]

An interesting question is what weight is optimal for Pogacar for a fast climb like Cipressa? Probably not his skinniest 64 kg version. Unfortunately it's impossible to simulate without knowing his power gains when at 66-68 kg (they are likely considerably lower than 6 watts per additional kg at threshold).

Obviously when there's a very strong tailwind than the skinniest version could be the best but I'm assuming neutral conditions.

If we base it on my watts estimation and say his aero stays exactly the same regardless of his weight (which is not completely realistic):

At 64kg, he would have had to push 496 watts = 7.75 w/kg
At 68kg, he would have had to push 515 watts = 7.57 w/kg

So he would need around 5 watts more per kilo extra to be faster.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

If we base it on my watts estimation and say his aero stays exactly the same regardless of his weight (which is not completely realistic):

At 64kg, he would have had to push 496 watts = 7.75 w/kg
At 68kg, he would have had to push 515 watts = 7.57 w/kg

So he would need around 5 watts more per kilo extra to be faster.

So around 4.5 watts per additional kg at threshold. Seems doable but this bulk-up should be done properly (a lot of additional muscle fibres, not much fat).

 

[Netserk]

but i thought 5 kg extra or less wouldnt affect power output

 

[Krzysztof_O]

but i thought 5 kg extra or less wouldnt affect power output

In case of Fatco or Ulle it wouldn't.

 

[Netserk]

In case of Fatco or Ulle it wouldn't.

its only fatco in winter , when he bulks up to become a sprinter he is known as mr muscles

 

[Krzysztof_O]

its only fatco in winter , when he bulks up to become a sprinter he is known as mr muscles

Seriously though, when bulking-up they want to minimize fat increase while going the other way they want to maximize fat decrease (Ullrich had it easiest) . Unfortunately I don't know any sources telling what kind of % we are talking about. Also power increase depend on other parts of oxygen chain so it's very individual (cyclists with larger cardiac output should be able to enlarge their engine easier).