Comprehensive Climbers Ranking

[Netserk]

Are we are arguing right now or do we actually have the same opinion?
We agree that Vingegaard was better in weeks 2 and 3. His form in the first week was not that great according to his own words.
Pogacar was definitely very close to / on the limit on Pegueres and Peyragudes, even though the pace was not high. I even think the Peyragudes stage might have been the lowest point of Pogacar's career. (His team finally did a good job, but he was then not even strong enough to attack and only won because Vingegaard did not bother to attack himself)

i dont think pogi was on the limit with mcnultys pace , but he wanted to win the stage and thus had to wait for the sprint

he tried a safe attack near the top of azet where he didnt risk a counter , and then decided to wait for the next day as he knew vingegaard was stronger

i disagree with : "Yes, in 2022 Vingegaard was better, but probably only 0.05-0.1 w/kg on average. the tactics and race situation increased the gaps."

if you think pogi was on the limit on peyragudes , then surely race tactics minimised the gaps as vingegaard didnt attack

 

[Peyresourde]

i dont think pogi was on the limit with mcnultys pace , but he wanted to win the stage and thus had to wait for the sprint

he tried a safe attack near the top of azet where he didnt risk a counter , and then decided to wait for the next day as he knew vingegaard was stronger

i disagree with : "Yes, in 2022 Vingegaard was better, but probably only 0.05-0.1 w/kg on average. the tactics and race situation increased the gaps."

if you think pogi was on the limit on peyragudes , then surely race tactics minimised the gaps as vingegaard didnt attack

To specify: I think the race tactics increased the gaps on the 2 stages he was dropped on, not in general.
As fo the average, it is just a pure guess, maybe Vingegaard was much stronger and just did not try. (I also included stages like SPDBF and Mende in my thinking, where I think they were around equal). Otherwise we basically agree on everthing then except for the Peyragudes stage.

 

[Pozzovivo]

There's an elephant in the room and everyone is extremely busy writing about anything else.

but if correct, why is this the case now and not before? I can't imagine the topic scoring badly in the clickbaiting environment of today.

 

[Red Rick]

but if correct, why is this the case now and not before? I can't imagine the topic scoring badly in the clickbaiting environment of today.

I replied to you in the deep, dark dungeon of the forum.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Seixas broke Pogacar's record on Saint Roman De Lerps today? Are you planning on indexing it, @Peyresourde?

 

[Peyresourde]

Seixas broke Pogacar's record on Saint Roman De Lerps today? Are you planning on indexing it, @Peyresourde?

I have watched Omloop today and not Faun Ardeche. If it is true it would be one of the most shocking performances of the last 15 years. Better than anything anyone except for Vingegaard and Pogacar has done climbing-wise. But let me confirm it first.

Edit: On first watch it looks very impressive, similar level to Pogacar last year. (The only mitigating factor is that the first 3 minutes last year with Belgium in the lead were very slow, from the point of attack Pogacar was faster). But I want to make very sure before I publish this. As I don't have much time today, I will probably do it tomorrow.

 

[Tim Cahill]

7.2 w/kg for 16 minutes from a 12 year old, surely something amiss with the wind conditions or calculations

Right? They've just repaved the road or something surely, with extra fast French tarmac that adds 50 watts.

 

[Pozzovivo]

7.2 w/kg for 16 minutes from a 12 year old, surely something amiss with the wind conditions or calculations

Right? They've just repaved the road or something surely, with extra fast French tarmac that adds 50 watts.

Saw it again. There was no wind. He pulled at the front himself almost the entire way. Tarmac looked old /not new.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Saw it again. There was no wind. He pulled at the front himself almost the entire way. Tarmac looked old /not new.

Should be said that Christen, Jorgenson and Martinez were "only" ~ 25's off. So probably very good conditions for fast acsent. Still.

 

[Brumdog66]

Yes, in 2022 Vingegaard was better, but probably only 0.05-0.1 w/kg on average. the tactics and race situation increased the gaps. In my opinion, Hautacam may have even been Pogacar's strongest day, so it was not a recovery problem for him. Pogacar's cornering on the TT-Bike was also really bad from 2021-2023, while Vingegaard was extremely good at that.
In 2023 it may have indeed been a recovery problem for Pogacar. What I meant to say was that it was not a problem of long/hard stages. Loze was the only one of those and he collapsed early there.


I think we can all agree that it is a combination of different factors.
The major point about nutrition is that riders can now go hard for much longer. Riders in the 2010s were literally afraid to waste one extra pedal stroke.
Just because scientists studied something already does not mean it was implemented in cycling already.

If performances continue to increase and don't start plateauing now, something is definitely up. I am convinced that the riders themselves and their coaches had no idea that they were capable of the Plateau de Beille performance even the morning before. These are not all geniuses. If you imply that it was all planned, you probably give them more credit than they deserve.

Mou knew