Comprehensive Climbers Ranking

[dercuforever]

btw have you analysed rampe saint hilaire from stage 4 in the tour last year ?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1942618543637553346

View: https://x.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1942618543637553346

This and Mont Dore remain the most impressive attacks i've seen, along the Dauphine 14' where Froome tried to drop Contador. (Even though they were probably pushing ridiculously low watts in comparison). (And Cipressas)

 

[vappa]

the tour de france circuit is at least more forgiving in that regard

after today i expect pogi to go on the second lap

I don't think so, I think they'll just make it very hard for Pogacar to win the sprint. In stage races it's different because everyone dropped will try to minimise time loss, in 1 day races that's irrelevant, if you can outmanoeuvre the group for 3rd let's say it doesn't matter if you're 30s behind or 5 minutes

 

[ppanther92]

Sure, there's Vingegaard. Other than that, I don't know: If Almeida doesn't reach his best the 2nd and 3rd place will be more open and yes, Yates has a shot.

Vingegaard, Almeida, Pellizzari (eho looks pretty good this year), Bernal (who also looks best after crash), Gall (5th in the Tour) - I actually think its one of the better Giro fields in recent years.

 

[Red Rick]

Regarding comparable climbs to La Redoute, I remembered San Vito on stage 1 of the 2024 Giro, where Pogacar went full gas from the bottom to catch a break but didn't drop everyone.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Regarding comparable climbs to La Redoute, I remembered San Vito on stage 1 of the 2024 Giro, where Pogacar went full gas from the bottom to catch a break but didn't drop everyone.

Yesterday was after much longer and harder racing and gaps were huge. This was maybe Pogacar's best attack (both absolute numbers and relative to the field) that didn't result in dropping all rivals.

 

[Red Rick]

Yesterday was after much longer and harder racing and gaps were huge. This was maybe Pogacar's best attack (both absolute numbers and relative to the field) that didn't result in dropping all rivals.

I'm not even trying to make a point. I cite that climb mainly because it's similar in how aggressive it was raced, not because of how difficult the day was overall, and because it very shortly after Liege 2024, where you again have a Redoute ascent.

San Vito seems a good baseline for 'fresh as daisy' and that was roughly 5% less power for 14s less, but then you really get back to the idea that Pogacar in the first week of the Giro of 2024 wasn't maxed out at all yet.

The other reason I'm interested in a fresh baseline is because of the fatigue factor, major adjustments don't make much sense when one riders gets way more tired than others, and I think there's a decent reason to think Pogacar's performance was very close to a very fresh performance even if it was 230km into LBL.

For Seixas you can directly compare it to Fleche and Itzulia. Fleche raw numbers aren't near La Redoute, so perhaps the difference in tactics is way more important than fatigue.

 

[Peyresourde]

Regarding comparable climbs to La Redoute, I remembered San Vito on stage 1 of the 2024 Giro, where Pogacar went full gas from the bottom to catch a break but didn't drop everyone.

San Vito was a good effort from Pogacar in terms of raw watts, comparable to La Redoute in 2024 and 2025 and also to Seixas on Redoute this year, but after a very easy stage:

Tadej Pogacar | 91 (-8): 8.74 W/kg for 3:34 on San Vito (Giro 2024)
Jonathan Narvaez | 80 (-8): 8.46 W/kg for 3:34 on San Vito (Giro 2024)

I agree with you that Pogacar was not as good in the Giro, especially the first week. He intentionally rested a lot after Liege in view of the Giro-Tour double and was undercooked the first few days.


In Fleche, Seixas obviously did not go all out. Tactics used to be all important in classics, which is why there were never any strong efforts on climbs like La Redoute previously. Pogacar and Seixas were obviously not (really) fatigued before Redoute yesterday, while the all other riders were.

 

[Red Rick]

Yesterday was after much longer and harder racing and gaps were huge. This was maybe Pogacar's best attack (both absolute numbers and relative to the field) that didn't result in dropping all rivals.

Oh, and you're missing the strongest attack that didn't drop everyone by numbers, because it was Pogacar being the one to do the suckwheeling. Col de la Couiolle 2024.

 

[Red Rick]

Val d'Enfer was apparently also in the 8.4 for 3'50 range at the Euro's last season but I don't know if that was before or after Saint Romain de Lerps.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Oh, and you're missing the strongest attack that didn't drop everyone by numbers, because it was Pogacar being the one to do the suckwheeling. Col de la Couiolle 2024.

I obviously meant the strongest out of Pogacar's unsuccessful attacks.

 

[vappa]

Vingegaard, Almeida, Pellizzari (eho looks pretty good this year), Bernal (who also looks best after crash), Gall (5th in the Tour) - I actually think its one of the better Giro fields in recent years.

Recent reports are saying that Almeida's condition worsened and won't be at the Giro

 

[Peyresourde]

Val d'Enfer was apparently also in the 8.4 for 3'50 range at the Euro's last season but I don't know if that was before or after Saint Romain de Lerps.

Val d'Enfer was ~ 8 w/kg the first time Remco attacked before the big climb (Evenepoel, Pogacar and Seixas together). There was a big tailwind. But Remco was still much better there than yesterday (see my post in the Evenepoel thread).

 

[Netserk]

Oh, and you're missing the strongest attack that didn't drop everyone by numbers, because it was Pogacar being the one to do the suckwheeling. Col de la Couiolle 2024.

ventoux was better

and there pogi also attacked but couldnt drop vingegaard before the sprint despite his boring wheelsucking ( when he like vingegaard in catalunya obviously should have pulled with his rival after he was attacked in order to win the stage like a true champion )

 

[Red Rick]

Sosa 6.5 W/kg for 30 minutes today.

Send him to ze Giro

 

[Peyresourde]

Sosa 6.5 W/kg for 30 minutes today.

Send him to ze Giro

Ivan Sosa | 65 (-8): 6.19 W/kg for 30:00 on Kiran (Turkey 2026)

W2W has really improved their watts calculations this year, but here they messed up (maybe it is a preliminary result*). With an adjustment of -8 this stage is already on the verge of being too hard for Sosa to perform, but he just managed to hold of Berwick.

*Edit: They corrected to 6.23 w/kg now

 

[Rou]

Ivan Sosa | 65 (-8): 6.19 W/kg for 30:00 on Kiran (Turkey 2026)

W2W has really improved their watts calculations this year, but here they messed up (maybe it is a preliminary result). With an adjustment of -8 this stage is already on the verge of being too hard for Sosa to perform, but he just managed to hold of Berwick.

They already readjusted the numbers. Usually they take several hours to recalibrate.

 

[Peyresourde]

They already readjusted the numbers. Usually they take several hours to recalibrate.

This is a bit strange. They did not adjust the major input parameters, but suddenly get a completely different result. Is the first result automatic and the second done manually, or the other way around?

It does not make sense for an automatic result to be completely off the mark if the input is mostly correct, except if they use the wrong formula. But how do they correct then? Do they just copy from other guys calculating it?

 

[Red Rick]

Ivan Sosa | 65 (-8): 6.19 W/kg for 30:00 on Kiran (Turkey 2026)

W2W has really improved their watts calculations this year, but here they messed up (maybe it is a preliminary result*). With an adjustment of -8 this stage is already on the verge of being too hard for Sosa to perform, but he just managed to hold of Berwick.

*Edit: They corrected to 6.23 w/kg now

Look, I am in it for the initial, unadjusted W2W estimates for entertainment purposes and knee jerk reactions okay

 

[Tim Cahill]

Are they data mining from somewhere?

 

[Rou]

@Peyresourde While we are at it what is your prediction for Pogacar on tomorrow's climb in Romandie? Let's assume a normal race with no horrible conditions.
I know it's a guessing game but it would be interesting to see how far is 'heavy' Pogacar from July Pogacar.

 

[Peyresourde]

Are they data mining from somewhere?

From Strava, but this still does not really explain the power numbers. (Overall it is a great site with a huge database)

@Peyresourde While we are at it what is your prediction for Pogacar on tomorrow's climb in Romandie? Let's assume a normal race with no horrible conditions.
I know it's a guessing game but it would be interesting to see how far is 'heavy' Pogacar from July Pogacar.

This also depends on the pace his team can set.

A time of 27 minutes would be ~6.8 w/kg (94 raw Index), 26 minutes would be ~7.1 w/kg (105 raw Index). I expect closer to 27 minutes, but I would also not be surprised if he nukes it.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

From Strava, but this still does not really explain the power numbers. (Overall it is a great site with a huge database)

This also depends on the pace his team can set.

A time of 27 minutes would be ~6.8 w/kg (94 raw Index), 26 minutes would be ~7.1 w/kg (105 raw Index). I except closer to 27 minutes, but I would also not be surprised if he nukes it.

27 minutes would be quite good (over 1900 m/h of VAM), OTOH low elevation, steep gradient and fresh effort are favorable for fast climbing. I would expect something around it but not much better, he's not in Tour climbing form yet.

 

[tobydawq]

Oh, and you're missing the strongest attack that didn't drop everyone by numbers, because it was Pogacar being the one to do the suckwheeling. Col de la Couiolle 2024.

It's now wheelsucking to follow an attack? Sigh...

 

[Red Rick]

It's now wheelsucking to follow an attack? Sigh...

It is but a neutral term describing a strategy in which one follows another rider without contributing to making the pace. All riders should wheel suck occasionally.

The strange thing that happens is using this description for some riders gets vastly different reaction than other riders.

 

[Panda Claws]

Evenepoel never wheelsucks