Contador 2010

[Moose McKnuckles]

Yes, and everybody saw him comeback to out climb Wiggins and Kloden twice, and see off Sastre and Evans, to come third after four years out, at age 37. Most riders, even in their prime, take a few years to get back to top level. Nobody is buying this nonsense about the Verbier 09 being the only stage in this years tour, without any wider context. It's a lot of nonsense. Come on.

Nobody is saying Verbier was the only stage. We're talking about Armstrong & Co. chasing Contador down on Verbier. Nobody is denying Armstrong's quality as a rider. I think the argument can be summarized as:

1. Lance and Kloden, at Lance's direction, chased down Contador on Verbier, which was shameful.
2. On a decisive mountain stage, several of the top riders dropped Lance, casting some doubt on his ability to climb at the top level.

That's basically it. I'm not sure why we're arguing here, since the two points above seem self-evident. I mean, we're talking about the highest levels of the sport here. Nobody is saying Lance isn't competing at the top level here.

 

[Rex Hunter]

You can focus on the minute detail of this one stage all you want. The point is, that wasn't the whole 09 tour, and we know from history that Armstrong has the potential to be better next year despite his age. Quit whining about this one stage already.

 

[BYOP88]

You can focus on the minute detail of this one stage all you want. The point is, that wasn't the whole 09 tour, and we know from history that Armstrong has the potential to be better next year despite his age. Quit whining about this one stage already.

I don't know what you're on about, please direct me to this history, that you're talking about. What I know is that age catches up with all people even athletes, as I said in another thread look at Gibo's performances as he got older and there are probably a few other riders of that age who haven't reached the performances of their younger years.

 

[Publicus]

You can focus on the minute detail of this one stage all you want. The point is, that wasn't the whole 09 tour, and we know from history that Armstrong has the potential to be better next year despite his age. Quit whining about this one stage already.

If anyone is whining it's you. The point I raised about Verbier was that it was the only stage where all of the contenders were still
in contention and the leadership for Astana hadn't been firmly established in Armstrong's mind. You and others (including kurtinsc) were noting how well Armstrong climbed at Ventoux and by extension arguing that he outclimbed everyone but Andy and AC. My point was to provide context--that yes he was outclimbing them (by two seconds in Frank's case) but over the course of the critical mountain stages, that wasn't the case (see Verbier, Stages 16 and 17).

As I've said earlier today, this really is a pointless exercise. Lance wasn't expending nearly the energy of the other guys because after Verbier, he was no longer contending for the overall and the focus of any teams strategy in particular (AC was the main focus on stages 16 and 17). On Ventoux he was the focus, but at that point he largely had the team
completely at his disposal since AC's position was locked up and Lance had no chance of cracking second.

If the conclusion you draw from this is that Armstrong is better in the mountains than Frank Schleck or anyone else, then so be it. We'll have real answers soon enough.

 

[Ferminal]

Yes, and everybody saw him comeback to out climb Wiggins and Kloden twice, and see off Sastre and Evans, to come third after four years out, at age 37. Most riders, even in their prime, take a few years to get back to top level. Nobody is buying this nonsense about the Verbier 09 being the only stage in this years tour, without any wider context. It's a lot of nonsense. Come on.

Who are the best examples of this?

 

[Polish]

1. Lance and Kloden, at Lance's direction, chased down Contador on Verbier, which was shameful.
2. On a decisive mountain stage, several of the top riders dropped Lance, casting some doubt on his ability to climb at the top level.
.

When AC turned on the TURBO on Verbier - the race for First was over.
NO one was going to chase AC down LOL.
The race for the remaining Podium Spots began.

Andy & Lance won those spots I Believe.

 

[hfer07]

If only Lance could have summoned the same enthusiasm he used to chase down Simeoni, maybe he could have done a better job of chasing down his teammate Contador.

"THE QUOTE OF THE YEAR"

 

[Cerberus]

Yeah Lance finished two seconds behind AC and he wasn't attacking. That's your support from the Ventoux stage? Two whole seconds.

Not a lot, but then neither AC or Schlecklet tried to take time on Armstrong in that stage. Schlecklet wasted a lot of energy attacking AC, but he fell back every time he couldn't drop AC and even after that he still dropped LA in the end, even if it was just by a few seconds. In every stage where he really tried to take time on LA he took much more time than that.

Perceive it any way you like, but Lance deferred to AC in the mountains. He didn't try to attack or chase him.

Actually LA closed a gap between Frank Schleck + AC and a group consisting of Schlecklet Wiggins and himself on Verbier. Check 1.50 minutes into this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYyclDRCl9o
I'm sure Wiggins and Schlecklet appreciated that, but AC might have been less thrilled.

He didn't go out of his way to help him up the mountains either; perhaps that's why people assume he was a bad teammate. I'm not saying AC wasn't the stronger of the two, but on Ventoux, Lance still had something left in the tank.

Something? Quite likely. Enough to take more time on Franck Schleck if he had attacked? Possibly. Enough to follow either Schlecklet or AC if they had wanted to drop him? Not likely.

 

[kurtinsc]

On the way to Verbier, Kloden and Armstrong had attacks/bridge attempts come out of the chasing group by

1. Andy Schleck;
2. Frank Schleck (twice I think);
3. Wiggins and Niballi;
4. Sastre and Evans;
5. Vandenbroucke (may have been part of a Franck Schleck jump).

Kloden and Armstrong marked none of them. Zero. They also gave Sastre a nice wheel to ride to recover after his bridging effort to get back to them.

They get a pass on the Andy Schleck move, as it was a reaction to Contador's jump. But the others? Where were they? Nowhere to be found.

I cannot see how anyone would say Astana did anything but ride against Contador here.

My theory (and this is just my opinion based on what I saw) is that Lance tried to go initially with AC... and went over his limit. At that point there was still a lot of climb to go and he was already gassed. So Kloden towed him up at the fastest level he could still pedal at to limit the damage.

After Verbier, Lance gave up on beating Contador. He was bitter about it, but he pretty much stated as much in comments to the media. I think he also realized he couldn't go with Schleck, but felt that if he hadn't exerted himself too much early on in the climb he would have finished with the Evans/Sastre/Wiggins group.

I think from that point on he never went into the red. He didn't even try to go with A. Schleck or Contador... because he would redline and lose a ton if he did. Instead he focused on getting 3rd by only marking the guys contending for that.

And it worked.

Lance didn't have the ability to climb with Andy or Contador, and will likely not have that ability this year. But I think if he rides defensively, he can stick with anyone else (except possibly Frank when he's having a good day). He MIGHT have been able to go with Contador on Grand Bornand early on by going into the red... but likely would have suffered the same fate Kloden did and finished even further back.

 

[kurtinsc]

Something? Quite likely. Enough to take more time on Franck Schleck if he had attacked? Possibly. Enough to follow either Schlecklet or AC if they had wanted to drop him? Not likely.

I agree with this. I also think had Contador attacked, he could have dropped Andy. To an extent, I wish he had gone for the stage win by doing that... Andy would have done his best to follow, and I think it would have shaken things up more... causing bigger gaps. A stage win on Ventoux is nothing to sneeze at, but neither Andy nor Contador went for it.

 

[Cerberus]

I agree with this. I also think had Contador attacked, he could have dropped Andy. To an extent, I wish he had gone for the stage win by doing that... Andy would have done his best to follow, and I think it would have shaken things up more... causing bigger gaps. A stage win on Ventoux is nothing to sneeze at, but neither Andy nor Contador went for it.

I understand Andy since he was trying to help his brother to the podium, but even so Andy actually did try to attack. The way I read it was that AC wouldn't pull and Andy didn't want to do all the work pulling in the breakaway. I could be misreading the conversations they had though. I certainly don't get why AC would not go for the victory unless of cause he didn't think he could drop Andy. He certainly didn't have any trouble keeping up with him though.

 

[Angliru]

I understand Andy since he was trying to help his brother to the podium, but even so Andy actually did try to attack. The way I read it was that AC wouldn't pull and Andy didn't want to do all the work pulling in the breakaway. I could be misreading the conversations they had though. I certainly don't get why AC would not go for the victory unless of cause he didn't think he could drop Andy. He certainly didn't have any trouble keeping up with him though.

I thought the reason was that he was riding for Armstrong to preserve his spot on the podium.

 

[Cerberus]

I thought the reason was that he was riding for Armstrong to preserve his spot on the podium.

That might be it, but considering the relationship with Armstrong I wouldn't think he'd pass up a major stage victory to help him. Particularly since if he took Andy with him it's a fair trade team-wise.

 

[Publicus]

That might be it, but considering the relationship with Armstrong I wouldn't think he'd pass up a major stage victory to help him. Particularly since if he took Andy with him it's a fair trade team-wise.

He was actually only to protect his lead and to help out Armstrong. He said so just prior to the stage. Perhaps you weren't around this forum at the time of Stage 17 when AC attacked and Kloden popped--folks still argue that he cost Kloden his podium spot (which isn't true, but that's neither here nor there). AC felt like sh!t (see his blog post on his site) and I don't think he wanted to risk that again, especially where he had 1st place locked up.

 

[Cerberus]

He was actually only to protect his lead and to help out Armstrong. He said so just prior to the stage. Perhaps you weren't around this forum at the time of Stage 17 when AC attacked and Kloden popped--folks still argue that he cost Kloden his podium spot (which isn't true, but that's neither here nor there). AC felt like sh!t (see his blog post on his site) and I don't think he wanted to risk that again, especially where he had 1st place locked up.

I suppose that makes sense in a way.

 

[Anonymous]

great Cycle Sport interview now online

Cycle Sport printed the best interview I saw with Contador talking about the Tuor de France. It's now posted online as they feature their best stories of the year. Lots of other ones, too, like the lengths Cav went to to make people think he wouldn't do well at MSR.
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/436521/after-the-tour-the-alberto-contador-interview.html

 

[Anonymous]

"Contador agrees that Levi Leipheimer's third place in the 2007 Tour and second place in the 2008 Vuelta makes him a 'clear favourite, too. But only under certain circumstances.'

Which are?

'That he's not in the same team as Lance Armstrong. In another team, there's no doubt that Levi would have a greater chance to shine.'

'In fact, any rider that wants to win the Tour should maybe forget about going to Armstrong's team.'"

 

[DavidVilla7]

Contador occasionally comes across as a bit bland, but he's actually a master of understatement. His choice of words - "very useful" - is as devastating as one of his mountain attacks

I like this!

 

[moi123]

Contador occasionally comes across as a bit bland, but he's actually a master of understatement. His choice of words - "very useful" - is as devastating as one of his mountain attacks

I like this!

yes, brillant!

 

[Publicus]

"Contador agrees that Levi Leipheimer's third place in the 2007 Tour and second place in the 2008 Vuelta makes him a 'clear favourite, too. But only under certain circumstances.'

Which are?

'That he's not in the same team as Lance Armstrong. In another team, there's no doubt that Levi would have a greater chance to shine.'

'In fact, any rider that wants to win the Tour should maybe forget about going to Armstrong's team.'"

What I appreciate most about him: he's a straight shooter.

 

[Rex Hunter]

I see Contador is thinking about doing the world championship TT next year. I'd love to see him go up against Cancellara for that. With recovery not being a factor it would be interesting to see the margin of difference between them.

 

[Ferminal]

I see Contador is thinking about doing the world championship TT next year. I'd love to see him go up against Cancellara for that. With recovery not being a factor it would be interesting to see the margin of difference between them.

At least 30s.

 

[Rex Hunter]

At least 30s.

Which way?

 

[peloton]

wtf?! From the theswordsman's link (thanks btw for posting it)

"A Contador victory was clearly not in Armstrong and Bruyneel's plans. The Texan was good enough to follow, but when the attacks came in the mountains he took his time to respond. Nike's LiveStrong t-shirts with a logo consisting of the figure eight made up of two yellow bracelets would have to sit on the shelves for another year."

 

[Ferminal]

Which way?

Now now you asked the margin, too early to pick the victor