Contador 2010

[Bike Boy]

This thread is to long so please forgive me if i'm restating a point that has allready been mentioned.

The way I see it, everything has changed since that day back in september 2008 when Armstrong announced his comeback.
Before that it seemed like the future held nothing but unchallenged succes regarding Contador.
It may be a fact that Armstrong is to old to challenge Contador and Schleck on the bike (I guess 2010 will tell) but i think we all can agree that of the bike he is doing everything possible to annoy him (Contador).
I have to admit I was very naive before the "tour" 2009 I truly believed Armstrong when he stated that he would be a "loyal" teammate if Contador proofed to be "clearly" the strongest guy.
It is very possible that 2009 have been the year where I had to reevaluate how big a fan of Armstrong I really am, but I'm still a big fan, so the only difference for me is that now i feel like I view Armstrong's doings a bit more from an outsiders/neutrals point of view. You see the problem for me is I really like Contador. He is very sympathetic, but I also acknowledge that Armstrong thrive on rivalry and he doesn't care about being the bad guy.
If you agree with me that what made Armstrong such a great champion had just as much to do with his psyche as it had to do with his athletic abilities you may be able to understand why I as a fan admire his ability to start this rivalries. I know he is unsympathetic but that's also the beauty of it. An athlete with that kind of competitiveness reveals what a beast he really is in front of everyones eyes. Thats entertainment!! whether you like it or not.

Thats funny I had a clear idea about what to write, but somehow it went off rail.
On topic: As I said before, Armstrong will continue to give Contador a big struggle in 2010.
Armstrong took (correct me if i'm wrong) 8 of the riders from the Astana line up in the 2009 "tour". that will have repercussions in 2010 for sure.

"There is no "I" in Team"

Surely the most arrogant statement of 2009, but maybe Contador will come to realise it is true in 2010.
Contador is the only rider from Astana who can win the 2010 "tour" where RadioShack has several riders (Klöden Armstrong Leipheimer) who can aim for the top spot. Thats not necessarily a bad thing especially considering how strong Contador is but if you campare the overall strength of those teams there is no reason why Contador shouldn't be concerned.
Furthermore if you take into count the fact that the collaboration between JB an LA is probably the most succesfull regarding organising a cycling team with the main objective to win the "tour", you will certainly be worried on Contadors behalf.
I have no doubt that vino runs things on Astana. As I see it Contador really has to step it up and make his word count. Unfortunately for him the majority of riders from kazakhstan could be a problem in that matter.
That could proof to be a far bigger threat than Armstrong's mind games.
of course Vino has made it public that they will support Contador 100 %. but knowing that Contador will be leaving after 2010 (I think that is safe to say), it is likely that the way vino wants to run the team, doesn't necessarily reflects what Contador has in mind.

 

[Anonymous]

There was too much there to quote, but this is in response to the post above. First of all, there's a big difference between "creating a rivalry" and character assassination, lies, personal attacks, revisionist history, etc.

But this is a thread about Alberto Contador in 2010, so I'm not going to take the bait offered. If you read the news, you'll see that there are a lot of top riders and teams focused on winning the Tour this year. And Alberto will spend far less time focused on the team with the big red R than he is with Saxo Bank and the other contenders. He'll prepare as thoroughly as he can, show up with a team that he respects, and react or attack as necessary. As long as Sanquer and Martinelli can pick the squad, there are no internal issues. Noval, Navarro, Hernandez, Pereiro, De la Fuente, Jufre and the others will bust their butts for Alberto and the team victory. Vino will try for glory in the Classics and at the Giro, but I believe he will wreak more havoc on other Tour teams than he does his own.

Don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Contador will leave Astana after 2010. Right now he's got a segment of the team that was built exclusively around him, with guys that knew what they were signing on for. Anywhere else, he would be the new guy, and everyone else would slide down a notch. If he's happy with the early season, Astana can start shopping early for a few key riders and be a much stronger team for 2011.

 

[El Imbatido]

Bikeboy so you are basically saying:

Paragraph 1 - I'm a huge Armstrong fan but realise in 09 he was a giant douche and will continue to be one in 2010 to Contador but i will still be a huge Armstrong fan.

Paragraph 2 - I thought i knew what i was gonna say but actually it never ended up anything like it was supposed to.

Paragraph 3 - Armstrong has an awesome team and that is how he will win in 2010 cos he stole 8 Astana riders and now Contador has no one and Vino won't help him cos we all know what he is like

Did i get it all



It is mainly paragraph 3 i have a problem with as you said Vino has stated he is 100% behind Contador. He will cooperate cos he knows if Contador leaves or any +ives happen Astana will probably lose their PT licence and if that happens will it is game over. Contador asked Astana to recruit several other riders to help him out and Astana did exactly that. ie. Davis, Pererio, De La Fuente, Tiralongo etc and they also brought on board a GT proven DS (one that is proven will quite a few different riders as well), so as many have said on these boards before Contadors situation is actually nowhere near as bad a people make out.

Sure it is not as strong as Radioshack but Armstrong is known for recruiting his competition. ie. Heras, Popo, Landis, Hamilton etc. Armstrong has also said for 2010 that the team is not built around him and that he will support the strongest rider.

Does that ring a bell??? Last year?? eh? Everybody knows what happened there. Possibility? I reakon so

Back onto teams though, it was Armstrong that recruited everyone so that his team could dominate and just set the old postal train to ween the field down so that then he could attack and take time. I believe that if he tries to do that this season it won't work. That will suit Contador just fine, cos he has an enormous kick, that will drop everybody except maybe a doped Iban Mayo but he ain't around at the moment.

If he wants any chance against Contador he needs his teammates to attack again and again and again, That is the only way i can see it happening to have him covering attacks. But again this leads back to what i pointed out before. Is this Team Armstrong or team Let the road decide??

 

[hfer07]

This thread is to long so please forgive me if i'm restating a point that has allready been mentioned.

The way I see it, everything has changed since that day back in september 2008 when Armstrong announced his comeback.
Before that it seemed like the future held nothing but unchallenged succes regarding Contador.
It may be a fact that Armstrong is to old to challenge Contador and Schleck on the bike (I guess 2010 will tell) but i think we all can agree that of the bike he is doing everything possible to annoy him (Contador).
I have to admit I was very naive before the "tour" 2009 I truly believed Armstrong when he stated that he would be a "loyal" teammate if Contador proofed to be "clearly" the strongest guy.
It is very possible that 2009 have been the year where I had to reevaluate how big a fan of Armstrong I really am, but I'm still a big fan, so the only difference for me is that now i feel like I view Armstrong's doings a bit more from an outsiders/neutrals point of view. You see the problem for me is I really like Contador. He is very sympathetic, but I also acknowledge that Armstrong thrive on rivalry and he doesn't care about being the bad guy.
If you agree with me that what made Armstrong such a great champion had just as much to do with his psyche as it had to do with his athletic abilities you may be able to understand why I as a fan admire his ability to start this rivalries. I know he is unsympathetic but that's also the beauty of it. An athlete with that kind of competitiveness reveals what a beast he really is in front of everyones eyes. Thats entertainment!! whether you like it or not.

Thats funny I had a clear idea about what to write, but somehow it went off rail.
On topic: As I said before, Armstrong will continue to give Contador a big struggle in 2010.
Armstrong took (correct me if i'm wrong) 8 of the riders from the Astana line up in the 2009 "tour". that will have repercussions in 2010 for sure.

"There is no "I" in Team"

Surely the most arrogant statement of 2009, but maybe Contador will come to realise it is true in 2010.
Contador is the only rider from Astana who can win the 2010 "tour" where RadioShack has several riders (Klöden Armstrong Leipheimer) who can aim for the top spot. Thats not necessarily a bad thing especially considering how strong Contador is but if you campare the overall strength of those teams there is no reason why Contador shouldn't be concerned.
Furthermore if you take into count the fact that the collaboration between JB an LA is probably the most succesfull regarding organising a cycling team with the main objective to win the "tour", you will certainly be worried on Contadors behalf.
I have no doubt that vino runs things on Astana. As I see it Contador really has to step it up and make his word count. Unfortunately for him the majority of riders from kazakhstan could be a problem in that matter.
That could proof to be a far bigger threat than Armstrong's mind games.
of course Vino has made it public that they will support Contador 100 %. but knowing that Contador will be leaving after 2010 (I think that is safe to say), it is likely that the way vino wants to run the team, doesn't necessarily reflects what Contador has in mind.

 

[lagartija]

bike boy............not wanting to get into the whole thing i just have one small nugget for you to consider, as far as team strength is concerned are you aware astana boasts six grand tour top spots.........with 3 different riders......while radioshack have seven........all with the same rider...........just thought i would throw it out there........enjoy............

 

[bianchigirl]

The only people who are calling Astana a weak team are Armstrong acolytes who really only know the names of USDiscatana riders and wouldn't know a Noval or a De la Fuente if he smacked them in the face.

There may be no I in team but there's certainly a **** in RaDIoshaCK

 

[thehog]

From AAP:

"I've got to do what I've got to do and that's make some adjustments, try to improve on my level of 2009," Armstrong told AAP.

"All the personal stuff aside, just speaking about the athlete - he's a fantastic athlete, he's a very complete rider.

"There's going to be a lot of buzz and build-up about that in 2010, especially now that we've all left to create another team.

"It's going to be Ali-Frazier come early July and I will let everyone else build that up - I will be ready, I've got to tell you."

Boxing legends Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier had a white-hot rivalry in the 1970s, culminating in the legendary Thrilla in Manilla bout of 1975.

Armstrong has won a record seven Tour de France titles and will start his build-up to this year's July race next week at Adelaide's Santos Tour Down Under.

Despite his age - Armstrong turns 39 in September - he is growing in confidence he can beat Contador for an eighth Tour de France crown.

"I'm more excited than I was 12 months ago today ... I feel good about it, I really believe I can (win the Tour de France)," he said.

"Every time I say it, there's 100 people who say 'no way', just because of my age, but I'm an optimist so I'm staying there."

 

[Publicus]

From AAP:

"I've got to do what I've got to do and that's make some adjustments, try to improve on my level of 2009," Armstrong told AAP.

"All the personal stuff aside, just speaking about the athlete - he's a fantastic athlete, he's a very complete rider.

"There's going to be a lot of buzz and build-up about that in 2010, especially now that we've all left to create another team.

"It's going to be Ali-Frazier come early July and I will let everyone else build that up - I will be ready, I've got to tell you."

Boxing legends Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier had a white-hot rivalry in the 1970s, culminating in the legendary Thrilla in Manilla bout of 1975.

Armstrong has won a record seven Tour de France titles and will start his build-up to this year's July race next week at Adelaide's Santos Tour Down Under.

Despite his age - Armstrong turns 39 in September - he is growing in confidence he can beat Contador for an eighth Tour de France crown.

"I'm more excited than I was 12 months ago today ... I feel good about it, I really believe I can (win the Tour de France)," he said.

"Every time I say it, there's 100 people who say 'no way', just because of my age, but I'm an optimist so I'm staying there."

Cue up "I believe I can fly" by R. Kelly....

 

[bianchigirl]

I believe I have a little bit of sick in my mouth...

 

[markene2]

@Bike Boy
I strongly disagre that Vino will not work for AC. Have you even seen cycling when he road for telekom? He worked for ullrich. In 2005 he had a "Free role." So they had 3 leaders. But he will work for him, he realise that he cant win the tour anymore. As a fan of Vino i know he will work for him. Plus he got some chances to shine at the classics and the giro
Sorry for my bad english
Peace

 

[Publicus]

@El Imbatido
I strongly disagre that Vino will not work for AC. Have you even seen cycling when he road for telekom? He worked for ullrich. In 2005 he had a "Free role." So they had 3 leaders. But he will work for him, he realise that he cant win the tour anymore. As a fan of Vino i know he will work for him. Plus he got some chances to shine at the classics and the giro
Sorry for my bad english
Peace

If I read El Imbatido's post correctly, I think you two are in agreement.

 

[karlboss]

The only thing that will stop Contador being the strongest rider in the 2010 tour is complacency...Armstrong is making sure that isn't going to happen. Contador will be a further step above this year, and the only way he can be beaten (barring exceptional) is if all teams "let" another team win. ie a break goes and everyone looks at astana and watches their own chances get flushed...much like CSC and telekom when Landis went and Caisse had to chase.

 

[markene2]

@Publicus

Fixed Quoted the wrong guy!
i ment to say it to Bike Boy

 

[Angliru]

As long as the Astana management reailze that the best way to utilize Vinokourov to benefit Contador is to let him attack when he feels the urge...because he's going to do it anyway. Vino cannot NOT attack. It is part of his being and always has been. Figure that into the team's gameplan, knowing that Vino will be launching his attacks, other teams will have to send someone to respond, leaving Contador to follow wheels until he reaches the pivotal point of the stage where he feels its time to mount his own. I don't think it is likely that the teams will allow Vino enough latititude to gain Pereiro
circa 2006 kinds of time on any of his attacks. The peloton learned from the mistake and won't make it again any time soon.

I believe Vino's grand tour podium days are long gone but he still can be a factor and he is obviously still capable of snatching a stage win given the opportunity. He was present in the last quarter of the season as an animator and will be even more so in 2010. While Armstrong and Basso had more impressive returns to the sport, Vino showed that on a given day he can still ride with the best.

 

[eljimberino]

Yeah, Vino did ok in the worlds road race.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Oh man, Lance is getting his a$$ nailed to the ground this time around.

He never had to announce that he was ready for the Tour.

That means exactly the opposite.

 

[markene2]

And superb in lombardy. First he attacked. And got caught and then followed sanchez like 5 seconds after he joined the group. I am looking forward to the classics

 

[Señor_Contador]

Vino will be at the Tour and will be in good puppy mode.

 

[thehog]

Oh man, Lance is getting his a$$ nailed to the ground this time around.

He never had to announce that he was ready for the Tour.

That means exactly the opposite.

Correct. Whilst Armstrong twitters about dinner with friends and book signings Alberto bangs out another 6 hours on the road. He's oblivious to the rantings of Armstrong.

However I was told that Fran has put together a presentation of his comments for the next team camp to inspire the team to work together and shut the old man up.

It's so obvious Contador gets into Armstrong head. Lance just can't stop talking about him.

 

[Bike Boy]

First of all I want to say thanks for the responses. I’m new her so I am very glad to see that my opinions are relevant enough to be debated. Although it seems you all disagree with me.
Which is also why, this post is a response to all of you.

I am of course no super expert so I will not defend my opinions blindly, but I want to point out a few things that might clarify what I wrote the first time.

I am aware that Astana has strengthened their squad with riders like. Tiralongo, De La Fuente, Pereiro. And I am also aware that Noval is a strong rider (after all he was used by Armstrong back in the good old days).
Maybe I have exaggerated the difference between the two squads I will concede that, but my point was that RadioShack seems to be stronger. Which I still believe is true.

I did also state that RadioShacks organisation is stronger. Maybe again I have exaggerated the difference. But just remember that my point doesn’t contradict the fact that Astana of course will be competitive.
I still can’t understand why you reject my point so categorical. Last year the sponsors from Kazakhstan forced JB to select Muravyev instead of Horner. So what I’m trying to say is they don’t have the same freedom of choice.
Of course it is in Vino’s interest to keep Contador but I still think my point is somewhat true.
JB and LA, seems to be in total control. I don’t think Contador has the same kind of control.
The way I see it Contador’s situation is a compromise. I don’t think anyone in here will disagree with me that he tried really hard to get out of his contract. But he said. Okay if you will not let me go, I have a list of demands.
And for the record I agree with all of you who says Contador is the favourite to win the “tour” I just think he would have been an even bigger favourite if he had the same conditions as Armstrong has on RadioShack.

 

[Anonymous]

Contador's urgency to leave the team lessened as the new team was put together. For a lot of the time, JB was still manager, the Pro Tour license was in doubt, he had a number of people claiming to represent the team try to negotiate, and riders were leaving without being replaced. Once Sanquer and Martinelli were put into place, and they started hiring riders that he suggested, things settled down. Having friends (either Noval or Novarro) re-up with the team, and new guys join, specifically to help him win the Tour, had to make it tougher to think of leaving. If Astana had lost their license, I think he would have had to go to Quick Step just so he could take four or five loyal guys with him. I'll let the other points for the next people who show up. But since you're having doubts, I'll warn you that I and a lot of other people were solid defenders of LA at this time last year, and his actions as along with some of the other RS guys totally turned us against him. Have a fun six months.

 

[Bike Boy]

Thanks for your respond theswordsman.

I agree with your analysis of how the situation unfolded. but I am not sure whether you agree with my analysis that concludes that RadioShack has a stronger organisation?

You made me reconsider this statement

knowing that Contador will be leaving after 2010 (I think that is safe to say)

That much I will concede, but I still believe Contador will consider he's option after this season.

Don't worry about me defending Armstrong's behaviour. I am not here to offend or provoke anybody. It's just that I like to play with open cards, thats why I want people to know I am a fan of him. And I will never be ashamed of it. I just hope people in here will respect that.

Have a good day

 

[mr. tibbs]

That much I will concede, but I still believe Contador will consider he's option after this season.

Agreeing with BB. Even if Astana works out for him this season (which I think it will, despite my doubts in late 2009), there will be some offers for 2011 from either Caisse or a certain Spanish motorist that will be too good for Contador to turn down. Quick Step, I think, will be a non-entity.

 

[Anonymous]

Agreeing with BB. Even if Astana works out for him this season (which I think it will, despite my doubts in late 2009), there will be some offers for 2011 from either Caisse or a certain Spanish motorist that will be too good for Contador to turn down. Quick Step, I think, will be a non-entity.

I agree with both of you that Contador will explore and consider options. But I have too much free time (unemployed), so I'm a regular at his website, and I at least glance at every international story where his name is mentioned in Google News. There's a lot of stuff out there that is misleading. I read that during re-negotiations, he insisted that Vino sign an agreement that he wouldn't try to ride the Tour de France. Alberto later said it was one of many lies that were in the press. I don't have any sort of inside knowledge or anything, but since I read everything, I can spot trends.

Bike Boy, I apologize if I seemed disrespectful. The truth is, you're me from a year ago. In September 2008, I was suffering severe depression without a job or health insurance so that I could even get diagnosed When Lance's comeback was first announced, it was the first spark of excitement I'd felt in a long time. I was one out there defending him in the comments sections against Bordry, and Le Mond, & whoever. I started a blog called BloggingLance and other incarnations on Blogger and Word Press, & was @BloggingLance on twitter, where I interacted with hundreds of other Armstrong fans. I collected every positive cycling related story, videos, twitpics, etc. A year ago I charted his training in Hawaii, and with a friend or two predicted exactly when he was in-flight for Australia (he had done a four training block plan instead of the scheduled three, and it would have been silly not to make the long flight on a rest day).

My opinions have changed. And with everything that happened during the Tour and since then, I have a less than favorable opinion of your dream team. I do my best to avoid even reading about them. But there were some misquotes in the press and subsequent lies that just keep on coming from the RS leaders, & I'm committed to making sure the truth gets out there once every time another attack comes. If the two guys stop, I'll gladly ignore them. But years of respect are gone for good.

Amd I was trying to help keep this a thread about Contador - there are plenty about "Big Lance". Cheers

 

[ludwig]

Saiz on Contador

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/saiz-still-hopes-for-return-to-professional-cycling

It seems unfair that Saiz would criticize Contador for taking the rest of the year off after such a long and successful run. But it may be interesting to see if the longer layoff has an effect on Contador next season.