Contador 2010

[Publicus]

Putting words in someone's mouth is evidently your strong suit. Devinine what someone meant instead of what they said you evidently think is another. It serves your predisposed ideas to think he was being diplomatic instead of actually speaking the truth. I'm pointing out to you that your opionion based on the whole interview, which I read, and previous devined knowlege is wrong, in erro, incorrect based on the actual words of Aberto.

Since it apprers that you are the one with reading comprehension problems let me post it again

"Tactically, aside from strife while in close quarters, aren’t you going to miss Armstrong?

Maybe so, having Armstrong on the team gave us more strength, we controlled things better."

What part of that response is it that you don't comprehend?

There's nothing else in that interview with Alberto that gives the slightest credence to your notion, or any other interview I've ever read with Ablerto. Alberto would be source material. It would have credence if he claimed it. He does not. Never has. Just like no rider ever said Big George tipped Lance in stage 3. Not George, no other rider, not ever yet you probably think they all lie.

Just what is your evidence?

You imagine these things because you think Lance and Johan are evil. You have a right to not like them, it's your choice, but man, you must be one lousy lawyer if you go into your cases with your mind made up.

Bolded passage champ. The clause is modifying the rest of the question. Two parts: "Tactically" and "Aside from the strife in close quarters". Remove the clause set off by the commas and the question may make more sense to you: "Tactically aren't you going to miss Armstrong?" He provides his answer. Does he talk about the internal strife? Nope. Does he say that there was no internal strife? No. Does he say that the wheel issues didn't happen? No. The problem is you've taken a question LIMITED IN SCOPE and DRAWN CONCLUSIONS THAT ARE NOT BEING ADDRESSED IN THE RESPONSE.

And in the subsequent interview posted (with google translation, he makes it plain that Johan is lying):

"Her and former director also said in these pages that it is absurd to think that from within one team was favored over others, that what I had was for all alike.

There were difficult times during the season, especially during the Tour, where at some stages I would have concerned another pace to get more differences. But the end result was good and I'll take that.

-And, as team leader, had no chance to say "this is not the tactic that most interests me?

No, was the director Johan Bruyneel and he made the decisions. He raised the tactic and I adapted to it as possible.

-Armstrong and Contador had the same material at his disposal?

Yes, generally speaking yes, but with the connotation of the wheels, a topic that I do not want to give more laps. Johan knows how it was and I think no need to explain.

-"But he said that Trek gave the same wheels.

Johan knows the truth.

Reading may be fundamental, but without comprehension it is meaningless.

Swing and miss playa!

 

[Race Radio]

I'm not talking about insinuations. I'm talking about Martinelli having a real rider, not an imaginary one, fail a real drug test, not an imaginary one, and get his team kicked out of the Giro. The real Giro, not an imaginary one where all your dreams of Johann and Lance getting caught come true.

None of Martinelli's Grand Tour winning riders failed a drug test.

 

[Publicus]

Yeah, exploiting a loophole, methinks. Look, Felt, BMC TT bikes have more convincingly structural elements in that area, but I'm not convinced by the Giant bike or the Shiv. Could be wrong, but it doesn't look like the bikes would be rendered unrideable if you removed those elements. Also, that thing makes the profile of the headtube much narrower than 1:3, surely.

As for the real subject of this thread: without speculating on Bruyneel's possible puppet-mastery of half the peloton, I think Contador must have a harder race next year. Although he'll be the strongest rider, he'll have less support in those elite groups of climbers. Unless Oscar Pereiro has great form, he'll just have Vinokourov with him (I think Vinokourov will be able to hang out in these situations) and they could potentially have for company: 3 Radioshack, 2 Saxo Bank, 3 Liquigas, a Garmin, a Sky, a BMC, a Cervélo, a Rabobank... I'm maybe being optimistic about riders who could make those selections, but basically his "support" last year will be riding against him. Caisse D'Epargne wouldn't help him out, would they? Having said that, if he actually attacks he can take like minutes out of everyone but Andy Schleck, so he could be alright.

I think Tiralongo and Navarro are going to surprise folks, as will a couple of the Kazakhs. Paris-Nice will be here soon enough.

 

[taiwan]

BTW, thinking about it, Liquigas should be a ridiculously strong GT team, considering the depth they have. And Evans couldn't get a super-domestique for love nor money at Silence-Lotto. He would have won the Tour by now!

 

[Carboncrank]

None of Martinelli's Grand Tour winning riders failed a drug test.

Pantani 1999 Giro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercatone_Uno

hematocrit level of 52 per cent

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/1999/giro99/stage21.html

 

[Publicus]

BTW, thinking about it, Liquigas should be a ridiculously strong GT team, considering the depth they have. And Evans couldn't get a super-domestique for love nor money at Silence-Lotto. He would have won the Tour by now!

I actually really like their chances at the Tour. Assuming they make it through the cobbles unscathed, they are going to wreck havoc in the mountains.

 

[taiwan]

I actually really like their chances at the Tour. Assuming they make it through the cobbles unscathed, they are going to wreck havoc in the mountains.

Who do you think should have leadership for the Tour? Basso? Nibali?

 

[Publicus]

Who do you think should have leadership for the Tour? Basso? Nibali?

It really depends on Basso's form--last year he was there in some races, but he wasn't (if that makes sense). Also isn't Basso doing the Giro? If that's right, then I think Nibali is the man.

 

[Race Radio]

Pantani 1999 Giro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercatone_Uno

hematocrit level of 52 per cent

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/1999/giro99/stage21.html

Thank you for proving my point.

He failed a heath check, not a drug test. No drugs were found, he never tested positive, He was allowed to compete again 2 weeks later. Doping positives have a 2 years sanction.

 

[BroDeal]

I'm not talking about insinuations. I'm talking about Martinelli having a real rider, not an imaginary one, fail a real drug test, not an imaginary one, and get his team kicked out of the Giro. The real Giro, not an imaginary one where all your dreams of Johann and Lance getting caught come true.

Benoit Joachim. Nandrolone.
Frankie Andreu. EPO.
Lance Armstrong. EPO.
Floyd Landis. Blood transfusion.

 

[taiwan]

It really depends on Basso's form--last year he was there in some races, but he wasn't (if that makes sense). Also isn't Basso doing the Giro? If that's right, then I think Nibali is the man.

I saw Basso in the Giro and the Vuelta last year. In the Vuelta he wasn't looking threatening, but I don't think he ever lost much time either. After having been back for a year you would expect he would be better.

 

[BikeCentric]

Thank you for proving my point.

He failed a heath check, not a drug test. No drugs were found, he never tested positive, He was allowed to compete again 2 weeks later. Doping positives have a 2 years sanction.

He stepped right into your trap RR!

 

[Publicus]

I saw Basso in the Giro and the Vuelta last year. In the Vuelta he wasn't looking threatening, but I don't think he ever lost much time either. After having been back for a year you would expect he would be better.

True, but if he's going for the win at the Giro, then I don't think there is sufficient time between the end of the Giro and the start of the Tour for him to properly recover. One of the many events we'll have to wait to unfold this year. But (at this moment) I'm very high on Liquigas for the Grand Tours.

 

[Carboncrank]

Bolded passage champ. The clause is modifying the rest of the question. Two parts: "Tactically" and "Aside from the strife in close quarters". Remove the clause set off by the commas and the question may make more sense to you: "Tactically aren't you going to miss Armstrong?" He provides his answer. Does he talk about the internal strife? Nope. Does he say that there was no internal strife? No. Does he say that the wheel issues didn't happen? No. The problem is you've taken a question LIMITED IN SCOPE and DRAWN CONCLUSIONS THAT ARE NOT BEING ADDRESSED IN THE RESPONSE.

I don't know why you criticize that. You do it all the time~!

He's said before there were tensions between him and Lance. Extrapolating that into a sporting fraud is your invention, one not supported by any facts or documentation. To me, his response clealy indicates that, on the road, Lance never did anything to hurt his chances.


And in the subsequent interview posted (with google translation, he makes it plain that Johan is lying):

"Her and former director also said in these pages that it is absurd to think that from within one team was favored over others, that what I had was for all alike.

There were difficult times during the season, especially during the Tour, where at some stages I would have concerned another pace to get more differences. But the end result was good and I'll take that.

Terrible translation. Just what do you think he's saying here? All I can get is that there were times when he though he could have gone earlier or faster but I don't see that as being all that uncommon. Its' the directors job to know when go time is. A DS is like a jockey. Alberto, being a thoroughbred, thinks he should have been allowed to run free more. It's not hard to understand why he'd think that and not hard to understand times Johann wanted to restrain him. It doesn't mean he was being set up to fail. The way he rode away from Lance on 15 him going when it was go time and Lance couldn't answer. He danced away on 17, even though many think that was risky, it was proof that the race was sorting out on the road.

-And, as team leader, had no chance to say "this is not the tactic that most interests me?

No, was the director Johan Bruyneel and he made the decisions. He raised the tactic and I adapted to it as possible.

Nothing here. Sounds perfectly reasonable.

-Armstrong and Contador had the same material at his disposal?

Yes, generally speaking yes, but with the connotation of the wheels, a topic that I do not want to give more laps. Johan knows how it was and I think no need to explain.

-"But he said that Trek gave the same wheels.

Johan knows the truth.

So, you think they gave him square wheels or something? Heck, why not just underinflate them? I wish Alberto would be more forthcoming about this. THIS question he dodged. The rest he answered reasonably nothing makes me suspicious, and trust me, I'm suspicious by nature. There was a time in my life I believed in conspiracies that went from the Kennedy assassination through the CIA to the Tri-Lateral commission to the Free Masons to.. on and on.
Eventually I had to admit if it was true, the pretty much everybody had to be in on it but me, and that's the definition of paranoia. The world has better things to do than be out to get me. (i think lol)

What do you think they did with the wheels? I thought wheels were very much a racer preference thing. If he liked certain wheels and didn't get them it would seem easy to prove.

 

[Race Radio]

and trust me, I'm suspicious by nature. There was a time in my life I believed in conspiracies that went from the Kennedy assassination through the CIA to the Tri-Lateral commission to the Free Masons to.. on and on.

Why is this not surprising?

 

[BroDeal]

trust me, I'm suspicious by nature. There was a time in my life I believed in conspiracies that went from the Kennedy assassination through the CIA to the Tri-Lateral commission to the Free Masons to.. on and on.

Why does this not surprise me? This explains so much.

 

[Publicus]

I don't know why you criticize that. You do it all the time~!

What do you think they did with the wheels? I thought wheels were very much a racer preference thing. If he liked certain wheels and didn't get them it would seem easy to prove.

I'm pretty comfortable with what I originally wrote so there is no need to repeat or clarify the points further. With respect to the wheel issue, I trust that you are actually familar with the underlying facts. I've proffered my opinions and thoughts on the matter on a couple of threads here that you can review at your leisure.

 

[Carboncrank]

Thank you for proving my point.

He failed a heath check, not a drug test. No drugs were found, he never tested positive, He was allowed to compete again 2 weeks later. Doping positives have a 2 years sanction.

Are you claiming he wasn't doping?

 

[Ferminal]

Are you claiming he wasn't doping?

He wasn't doping, in the same way that Lance wasn't doping in the 2009 TdF.

Both had values which clearly showed they were doping, but neither failed a drugs test.

 

[Publicus]

Are you claiming he wasn't doping?

No. You said he failed a drug test. He did not fail a drug test. So your so-called proof in fact rebutted your own point. In short you pwned yourself.

 

[Race Radio]

Are you claiming he wasn't doping?

Armstrong failed 7 drug tests in the 99 Tour, was he doping?

 

[Carboncrank]

I'm pretty comfortable with what I originally wrote so there is no need to repeat or clarify the points further. With respect to the wheel issue, I trust that you are actually familar with the underlying facts. I've proffered my opinions and thoughts on the matter on a couple of threads here that you can review at your leisure.

So far what qualifies as underlying fact in your world is not real impressive.
The only thing I can find as "fact" is an article from a blogger claiming a "Spanish mechanic" told him this story about wheels and all the other articles I find, quote him. Josu Garai is his name. I'm trying to find some reputable source for it and can't so far. I doubt that I will. Nobody is on the record on this as usual.
I find it a little hard to believe that a rider like Contador that's done nothing but live, eat and breath cycling his entire life, could suddenly find out that there's a wonder wheel out there nobody else knows about as though there was some secret dark project to get Lance go faster wheels.
I doubt someone suddenly came up with a stiffer, strong enough, 150 gram lighter bike wheel.
Why don't I hear any verification about even the existence of such a wheel from other riders and/or teams and or/mechanics?
It reeks of tabloid trash.

 

[Race Radio]

So far what qualifies as underlying fact in your world is not real impressive.
The only thing I can find as "fact" is an article from a blogger claiming a "Spanish mechanic" told him this story about wheels and all the other articles I find, quote him. Josu Garai is his name. I'm trying to find some reputable source for it and can't so far. I doubt that I will. Nobody is on the record on this as usual.
I find it a little hard to believe that a rider like Contador that's done nothing but live, eat and breath cycling his entire life, could suddenly find out that there's a wonder wheel out there nobody else knows about as though there was some secret dark project to get Lance go faster wheels.
I doubt someone suddenly came up with a stiffer, strong enough, 150 gram lighter bike wheel.
Why don't I hear any verification about even the existence of such a wheel from other riders and/or teams and or/mechanics?
It reeks of tabloid trash.

Carbonsports, the manufacture of the wheels, confirmed Contador's side of the story.

 

[Carboncrank]

Armstrong failed 7 drug tests in the 99 Tour, was he doping?

Nope. Never failed a certified test. Has never been accused by any anti doping agency or UCI of doping, never been sanctioned, Never kicked out of a race or a tour.

 

[Carboncrank]

Carbonsports, the manufacture of the wheels, confirmed Contador's side of the story.

Carbonsports makes a hand made carbon fiber wheel that I can't find specs on but there appears to be someone interested enough, and knowledgeable enough to go back through the Tour photos. Evidently, lightweight customs Carbonsports have a distinctive look.

At no time did Alberto have those wheels on any bike he raced in the entire Tour, not just the time trials.

http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=1552&cpage=1