• The Cycling News forum is still looking to add volunteer moderators with. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Contador blasts LA

Page 5 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

iceaxe

BANNED
Jul 10, 2009
72
0
0
pro cycling and pro wrestling both rely all manufactured drama to fill the seats. contador and lance are prolly best buds. something though tells me that the script was for lance to win. that is why the likes of evans and sastre didnt even try. Uppity contador went against the peloton mafia and did not stick to the script. Lance winning would have been an amazing story and brought more revenue to everyone.
 
Jul 21, 2009
78
0
0
Scott SoCal said:
Point taken and I agree with you The circumstances were different this year for sure. The Lance haters are out en masse and all I'm saying is this;

Who was the Horse's ***, Lance or Contador? Who attacked whom? Contador was the strongest without doubt. But in the end did Contador attack Lance & Kloeden & the best interests of Team Astana or not? But not for his insecurities would Astana not have swept the podium? Same guy would have won and everybody knew it. I don't think Contador has many friends on that team right now.

don't be blind. Andy was in the race too. No sweep to be had .. face the facts. Condator raced well .. he did what he had to do in a hostile team.
 
Jul 20, 2009
82
0
0
saxe_coburg_gotha said:
get it outta yea son -you tell him AC
you aint gonna get bullied no more.
you rode lika champ = now you gonna act lika chump - so what
dont forget his serious brain injury he has every right to go off on one.
cyclists are getting softer soon saddlebags and wifes on tour will be the norm - AC just wants to get a scrap going
Bernardo Hinault put him up to it - The Badger lives on..
:rolleyes:

love that one about the Badger. Remember the badger says "the one who smashes the pedal the hardest come out on top. Use brute force and Lance was forced into submission. And remember the little dwarf's started to beleive in themselves that lance is beatable by Pedro Delgado. Also the badgers advice to dislodging the AStana stronghold. There are not 36 ways but one and it is attack. The schlecks followed it and releived the pressure off of contador
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
LugHugger said:
OK, reality check here. Contador was not the only GC contender to miss out on the road to La Grand Motte. Both the Schlecks, Wiggins, Leipheimer and Kloden all missed out. Are they all tactically naive? Or was it the Hog not paying enough attention? Or was it Big George insider trading? All of the subsequent moves were effectively Contador saying "FU, I'm the only guy who's going to win this race. If you won't support me, I'll support myself" to the Hog and LA. There are a lot of "What ifs?" that never came into play in your scenario.

Let's face it, you don't need tactics if you know that you can attack on any type of terrain and at least hold off the opposition. You can bet your life though that Contador learned a lot this July. So did the Schlecks and Riis.

You mean the same "insider trading" Hincapie who blamed Astana for chasing and keeping him out of yellow? Give Lance some credit for being at the right place when the smackdown happened. Cancellara saw it too and bunnyhopped curbs/traffic islands to get where he needed to be. So yes, Contador & the Schlecks are not as tactically astute as Lance, Hincapie and Cancellara. That's going to be expolited next year for sure. And I think, at some point next year, Contador will absolutely need his team and decent tactics to win.
 

Carboncrank

BANNED
Jul 27, 2009
623
0
0
LugHugger said:
OK, reality check here. Contador was not the only GC contender to miss out on the road to La Grand Motte. Both the Schlecks, Wiggins, Leipheimer and Kloden all missed out. Are they all tactically naive? Or was it the Hog not paying enough attention? Or was it Big George insider trading? All of the subsequent moves were effectively Contador saying "FU, I'm the only guy who's going to win this race. If you won't support me, I'll support myself" to the Hog and LA. There are a lot of "What ifs?" that never came into play in your scenario.

Let's face it, you don't need tactics if you know that you can attack on any type of terrain and at least hold off the opposition. You can bet your life though that Contador learned a lot this July. So did the Schlecks and Riis.

2 things.

First, I notice you don't argue any of the other, more important points than the missing of the wind shift, which was more Lances experience than the others blunder.

Second, you seem to be going completely against accepted grand tour theory that says no rider no matter how strong can win the grand tours without proper support. Is that your claim? If so, it's extraordinary and I'd ask for the extraordinary proof to go along with it.
 
Jul 21, 2009
78
0
0
how many are drinking the LA kool-aid and believe that a man shy of his 39th birthday will win the tour in 2010. Nitwiots..
 
Jul 22, 2009
3,355
1
0
I believe Bruyneel and Armstrong will beat Contador through a tactical race. Even if it means supporting a strong rider from another team during the race. Armstrong will be pressed to make the podium again, which is an amazing feat. Even the most sour detractors have to admit that.
 
Jul 20, 2009
82
0
0
LugHugger said:
OK, reality check here. Contador was not the only GC contender to miss out on the road to La Grand Motte. Both the Schlecks, Wiggins, Leipheimer and Kloden all missed out. Are they all tactically naive? Or was it the Hog not paying enough attention? Or was it Big George insider trading? All of the subsequent moves were effectively Contador saying "FU, I'm the only guy who's going to win this race. If you won't support me, I'll support myself" to the Hog and LA. There are a lot of "What ifs?" that never came into play in your scenario.

Let's face it, you don't need tactics if you know that you can attack on any type of terrain and at least hold off the opposition. You can bet your life though that Contador learned a lot this July. So did the Schlecks and Riis.

Now thats putting straight. The best tactic is to lay it on your opponents where you know they cannot match you and for contador thats the mountains. He destroyed on them on his own turf. Thats my man. The fear of LA is gone finito. The myth have been exposed
 

Bagster

BANNED
Jun 23, 2009
290
0
0
Publicus said:
Thanks. This helps. Basically, he admires him for his cycling prowess (which was consistent with his prior statements), but thinks he's an A$$ personally. I could see that.

Personally I think that this sort of after match comment does nothing for AC's image. Despite what tensions may have existed between him and LA, since the tour finished Armstrong has been consistent in praising AC for both his ride and his undoubted class as a rider. He even has photos of AC's podium pictures plastered all over his web page. I don't recall one comment by Armstrong dissing AC as a person. The closest I can recall through the whole tour was his comments after the split stage early on and that was hardly badmouthing him as a person.

For AC to start coming out now and start slagging off LA as a person says more about him as a self obsessed whinger rather than LA and is pretty dissappointing. Why couldn't he just accept his win with the grace of a true champion and move on.....what happens on tour should stay on tour.
 
Jul 21, 2009
78
0
0
Carboncrank said:
2 things.

First, I notice you don't argue any of the other, more important points than the missing of the wind shift, which was more Lances experience than the others blunder.

Second, you seem to be going completely against accepted grand tour theory that says no rider no matter how strong can win the grand tours without proper support. Is that your claim? If so, it's extraordinary and I'd ask for the extraordinary proof to go along with it.

you are making too big a thing about the wind shift. Columbia HTC were radioed about it and moved accordingly .. LA went along, probably due to inside info or because of his keen sense of what was coming. O nthe other hand he should have been puling his Astana compatriots along with him ;-)
 
Jul 20, 2009
82
0
0
Scott SoCal said:
Point taken and I agree with you The circumstances were different this year for sure. The Lance haters are out en masse and all I'm saying is this;

Who was the Horse's ***, Lance or Contador? Who attacked whom? Contador was the strongest without doubt. But in the end did Contador attack Lance & Kloeden & the best interests of Team Astana or not? But not for his insecurities would Astana not have swept the podium? Same guy would have won and everybody knew it. I don't think Contador has many friends on that team right now.

Bruyneel and lance made sure that he had no friends from the beginning. Stop the hypocrisy. Thats not news
 
Jul 21, 2009
78
0
0
Bagster said:
Personally I think that this sort of after match comment does nothing for AC's image. Despite what tensions may have existed between him and LA, since the tour finished Armstrong has been consistent in praising AC for both his ride and his undoubted class as a rider. He even has photos of AC's podium pictures plastered all over his web page. I don't recall one comment by Armstrong dissing AC as a person. The closest I can recall through the whole tour was his comments after the split stage early on and that was hardly badmouthing him as a person.

For AC to start coming out now and start slagging off LA as a person says more about him as a self obsessed whinger rather than LA and is pretty dissappointing. Why couldn't he just accept his win with the grace of a true champion and move on.....what happens on tour should stay on tour.

cuts both ways. point taken.
 
Scott SoCal said:
OK. Lance certainly is not used to playing second fiddle BUT, Contador not riding at the front missed the split on stage 3. Stupid move #1. Contador attacked his own team mate (Lance) on the way to Arcalais. There was no other reason to attack into a bloc headwind. Stupid move #2. Stage 17 rolls around and all Contador has to do is defend. He has his two most dangerous rivals marked and Kloeden with him.. 2 on 2. Lance has marked Wiggins who had been dropped. What does the brain surgeon Contador do?? Attacks the Schelck Bros who were riding hard tempo to put as much time into Wiggins and Lance as possible thus blowing up his only team mate with him! HE ISOLATED HIMSELF!!! Major Stupid Move #3. What would have happened to Contador had he crashed or flatted in the last 15k? Say what you want and take whatever shots at Lance BUT, Lance never attacked his own team. Contador did, just ask Horner, Levi, Kloeden and, oh yeah, Boss Bruyneel.

Tactically, Contador is an idiot. My guess is Bruyneel will exploit the lack of tactical sense. Next year should be fun.

You my friend don't know much about Contador.

1. He LOVES to attack into headwinds because it disrupts the rhythm and creates an opportunity for him to exploit his weight-to-power ratio, especially where the slopes aren't that steep. So he put in a counter-attack on Andy Schleck and Cadel Evans, gaining 21 seconds on them. The fact that he gained a similar amount of time (or more) on the rest of his team mates, is immaterial. He was the leader of the team and best chance at yellow. I'm sure you didn't express this same concern when Lance attacked at any point in time on any stage during his 7 year reign.

2. The biggest tactical blunder on Stage 17 wasn't Contador's attack, but Lance's ineptitude. Frank Schleck was only able to get away from the group with Wiggins and Armstrong because Lance was slow pedaling and looking down at the ground. So slow that Wiggins almost ran into his wheel. Frank sees it and takes off. Lance looks up and does . . . NOTHING. So he was stuck back with Wiggins as result of his own blunder. Which if he doesn't make, Frank doesn't bridge back to Andy who is isolated up the rode with Kloden and Contador.

3. On Ventoux, I don't know how many times Armstrong bridged up to Contador and Andy. There was absolutely no reason for him to do so. None. He just needed to mark Frank and Bradley. He tried a similar stunt on Col de Romme, but Wiggins matched his acceleration and he shut it down.

4. Lance couldn't attack his teammates even if he wanted to. Kloden set pacing for him and Contador was always in front of him. Lance didn't have the top end to pull away from the best guys. So your point, while true, is meaningless under the circumstances.
 
Jul 22, 2009
3,355
1
0
LaBici said:
you are making too big a thing about the wind shift. Columbia HTC were radioed about it and moved accordingly .. LA went along, probably due to inside info or because of his keen sense of what was coming. O nthe other hand he should have been puling his Astana compatriots along with him ;-)

It has been widely reported that Contador caused the split when he couldn't hold the wheel in front of himself.
 

Carboncrank

BANNED
Jul 27, 2009
623
0
0
LaBici said:
you are making too big a thing about the wind shift. Columbia HTC were radioed about it and moved accordingly .. LA went along, probably due to inside info or because of his keen sense of what was coming. O nthe other hand he should have been puling his Astana compatriots along with him ;-)

read my post again. I'm deemphasizing the wind shift bit compared to the others. We are in agreement on that point.
 

Bagster

BANNED
Jun 23, 2009
290
0
0
jamfra67 said:
Now thats putting straight. The best tactic is to lay it on your opponents where you know they cannot match you and for contador thats the mountains. He destroyed on them on his own turf. Thats my man. The fear of LA is gone finito. The myth have been exposed

What myth would that be? There was no myth of invincibility around Armstrong coming into this tour, how could there be. The was no myth to be exposed or are you saying that it was a myth that LA dominated for seven years and so should't be accorded some respect for those achievements? None of the young guys feared Lance coming into this tour, the guy who won was the guy everyone was expecting to win and the guy who came second was the guy everyone expected to come second. The guy who came third? well personally I think he showed that he is still up there with the best at 38 years old. I'm sure that Frank Schleck, Carlos and Cadel would be forced to agree given the fact he just beat them.
 
Jul 21, 2009
78
0
0
Next year LA and AC will be on different teams. Will AC win. Has great chnace to repeat, unless Schlecks give him a run for his money. I hope AC goes to Riis's team. then we'll see about the tactics game.
 
Jul 21, 2009
78
0
0
scribe said:
It has been widely reported that Contador caused the split when he couldn't hold the wheel in front of himself.


.. makes no sense. watch the stage again.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Bagster said:
Personally I think that this sort of after match comment does nothing for AC's image. Despite what tensions may have existed between him and LA, since the tour finished Armstrong has been consistent in praising AC for both his ride and his undoubted class as a rider. He even has photos of AC's podium pictures plastered all over his web page. I don't recall one comment by Armstrong dissing AC as a person. The closest I can recall through the whole tour was his comments after the split stage early on and that was hardly badmouthing him as a person.

For AC to start coming out now and start slagging off LA as a person says more about him as a self obsessed whinger rather than LA and is pretty dissappointing. Why couldn't he just accept his win with the grace of a true champion and move on.....what happens on tour should stay on tour.

Funny, who else is in those photos?

To suggest that he didn't "badmouth" Contador is to overlook many, many things he said, and the intent he had in saying them. Lance has a lot to learn when it comes to subtlety.
 
Jul 21, 2009
78
0
0
Carboncrank said:
read my post again. I'm deemphasizing the wind shift bit compared to the others. We are in agreement on that point.

my apologies. i mis-read your post.
 
Jul 22, 2009
3,355
1
0
Publicus said:
2. The biggest tactical blunder on Stage 17 wasn't Contador's attack, but Lance's ineptitude. Frank Schleck was only able to get away from the group with Wiggins and Armstrong because Lance was slow pedaling and looking down at the ground. So slow that Wiggins almost ran into his wheel. Frank sees it and takes off. Lance looks up and does . . . NOTHING. So he was stuck back with Wiggins as result of his own blunder. Which if he doesn't make, Frank doesn't bridge back to Andy who is isolated up the rode with Kloden and Contador.

Expect Contador to experience this exact same situation (blunder), from Wiggins point of view, several times during next year's tour. No slipstream for Contaking and no clear view of accelerations for him.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
scribe said:
He's got the Spanish press thinking he was relegated to sharing a bed with Palinho while Armstrong lived it up on a luxury suite. lol

Yeah. Lance didn't help him at all... not marking rivals, not even the TTT. Yep, it was all Contador... all by himself.
 
Mar 17, 2009
82
0
0
I'm disappointed by Contador's comments today. Unnecessary and not a particularly classy thing to do.

However we don't know exactly what has been going on in the background. So I won't judge him too harshly until we know the full Astana story over the past few weeks....
 
Jul 20, 2009
82
0
0
Scott SoCal said:
You mean the same "insider trading" Hincapie who blamed Astana for chasing and keeping him out of yellow? Give Lance some credit for being at the right place when the smackdown happened. Cancellara saw it too and bunnyhopped curbs/traffic islands to get where he needed to be. So yes, Contador & the Schlecks are not as tactically astute as Lance, Hincapie and Cancellara. That's going to be expolited next year for sure. And I think, at some point next year, Contador will absolutely need his team and decent tactics to win.

You really think contador on the schlecks will make that same mistake? Even if they do you really think Lance will be able to follow Contador and Andy in the mountains? Two young athletes still getting stronger against a former champion with his better days over are you dreaming? Lance will need an army of babysitters to drag him up those climbs. Remember he is getting older and won't recover quickly as before. You really think the other riders are so dumb that they are not aware of those facts.
 

Carboncrank

BANNED
Jul 27, 2009
623
0
0
Thoughtforfood said:
Funny, who else is in those photos?

To suggest that he didn't "badmouth" Contador is to overlook many, many things he said, and the intent he had in saying them. Lance has a lot to learn when it comes to subtlety.

quote them and let us make our own opinion about intent.