• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Contador Blood Doped

Page 10 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
arrhythmia rules said:
Well if Contador has done just the same as he has done in the past Fran Contador clarifies the question - Contador doped this time as well.

Yes, a bit like when Ullrich says he didn't cheat anyone because after being trounced by LA a few times too many he decided to get on a "program"...
 
Jul 28, 2009
898
0
0
Visit site
Merckx index said:
I posted a link on the plasticizer thread. A study of 2500 subjects, none had levels of DEHP metabolites even close to what is reported for Bert. The median levels were 3-5 ng/ml, the highest in the adult group was about 40. All age groups were tested, ethnic groups, M/F, etc.
You're missing the point. That's one study in a US population. Other subsequent studies in other populations don't necessarily concur with that study. Furthermore the figure you quote is for one particular metabolite. Is the quoted 480 actually for that metabolite? Also you should know that the median isn't always relevant in this sort of analysis. I don't dispute that this level of any metabolite of DEHP in ACs urine is suspicious. What I dispute is the assertion that this could be solely due to transfusion and therefore the basis for some sanction.

Merckx index said:
If you think the 480 ng/ml is a combined figure of several metabolites, you're the one flailing around (though even if it were, it would still be far above controls).
Raising a possiblity, a perfectly reasonable one if you're familiar with the literature, is not the same as stating an opinion.

Merckx index said:
Data are not reported like that. Yes, it is the highest one, and it is far higher than the controls. And it's not just that it's so high, but that it spikes, dropping dramatically the following day. While I agree with you that we need definite confirmation of these numbers--the accuracy of lab leaks can always be challenged--Dr. Segura, the lead author of the study showing that transfusion greatly increases the DEHP values, says the values reported by ARD definitely indicate transfusion:
The problem is that you're selectively quoting the literature. Presumably with that name you're some kind of scientist but your being rather close-minded in my opinion. I really don't care what Segura has been reported to say. If he was any good he would be saying that the reported values are consistent with transfusion and leave it at that. If he actually said that they "definitely indicate transfusion" then he is not familiar with the literature in his field. I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and suggest he may have been misquoted.

:D
 
May 27, 2010
22
0
0
Visit site
The Belgian journal Humo will publish a file on Contador on tuesday, they claim they've talked to "a source very close to Astana". Humo are normally very reliable when it comes to stuff like this.

They've published some quotes already: Contador would have used Clen to lose weight quickly, to lose those last few pounds after the Dauphiné while not losing muscular mass.
In the period between the Dauphiné and the Tour Contador tapped off some blood to not disturb his blood values in his biological pasport. A rest of Clen had stayed in the blod until he refilled in the Tour.
 
Jul 16, 2010
17,455
5
0
Visit site
Pancreas said:
The Belgian journal Humo will publish a file on Contador on tuesday, they claim they've talked to "a source very close to Astana". Humo are normally very reliable when it comes to stuff like this.

They've published some quotes already: Contador would have used Clen to lose weight quickly, to lose those last few pounds after the Dauphiné while not losing muscular mass.
In the period between the Dauphiné and the Tour Contador tapped off some blood to not disturb his blood values in his biological pasport. A rest of Clen had stayed in the blod until he refilled in the Tour.

Humo is not a journal lol. Calling Humo reliable is like calling the "Dag Allemaal" reliable as well. Just saying...

There are better products out there to use for losing weight without losing muscular mass.
 
Jun 15, 2009
835
0
0
Visit site
As the last post with this photo shut down the thread effectively, here's another go.
I just couldn't resist
Conta.jpg
 
Mar 10, 2009
350
0
0
www.rolfraehansen.com
Pancreas said:
The Belgian journal Humo will publish a file on Contador on tuesday, they claim they've talked to "a source very close to Astana". Humo are normally very reliable when it comes to stuff like this.

They've published some quotes already: Contador would have used Clen to lose weight quickly, to lose those last few pounds after the Dauphiné while not losing muscular mass.
In the period between the Dauphiné and the Tour Contador tapped off some blood to not disturb his blood values in his biological pasport. A rest of Clen had stayed in the blod until he refilled in the Tour.

Article on it here.
 
Oct 6, 2009
5,270
2
0
Visit site
rolfrae said:
Article on it here.

Sounds fishy. I'm not sure I believe a rider from Astana would be (1) breaking omerta, and (2) risking admitting there was doping going on in the team when we just had the late bank guarantee and Astana being left off the ProTour license list. Risky strategy that.

Somebody must be paying some big bucks to keep this story going. I believe Contador doped, but I don't believe the way this has unfolded in the media. Somebody has an agenda here.
 
Oct 6, 2009
5,270
2
0
Visit site
Can we please close this thread, since the article is already being discussed in the "Contador Blood Doped" thread, and this thread has a terrible, vague title?
 
Beech Mtn said:
Sounds fishy. I'm not sure I believe a rider from Astana would be (1) breaking omerta, and (2) risking admitting there was doping going on in the team when we just had the late bank guarantee and Astana being left off the ProTour license list. Risky strategy that.

Somebody must be paying some big bucks to keep this story going. I believe Contador doped, but I don't believe the way this has unfolded in the media. Somebody has an agenda here.[/QUOTE]

A witch hunt some might say. :D
 
Aug 24, 2010
155
0
0
Visit site
El Pistolero said:
Humo is not a journal lol. Calling Humo reliable is like calling the "Dag Allemaal" reliable as well. Just saying...

There are better products out there to use for losing weight without losing muscular mass.


Humo is a magazine, but for stuff like this they're reliable
 
Jul 16, 2010
17,455
5
0
Visit site
Mich78BEL said:
Humo is a magazine, but for stuff like this they're reliable

I'd say 50/50 reliable thus not reliable at all. They also write a lot of bull****. I'm not doubting that they have an insider at Astana that told them this story, I'm doubting if their source is being honest here. And being a historian after all, source means everything.

Just doesn't make sense to use Clen to lose weight. There are a lot of better products to use to have the same effect that aren't easily detectable and can be masked.

And if Contador really did do a blood transfusion(which is something I don't doubt at all from anyone who commonly places in the top 5 of GTs) then why did he drain blood BETWEEN the DL and the Tour where he also TOOK CLEN(according to this insider)? That just doesn't make sense at all.

And if they want to use that plasticicer test in Court then they have to test every GT contender during the Tour for it. Unless they're afraid of the results. I bet Andy wished he didn't win the Tourmalet stage then ;)
 
Jul 22, 2009
3,355
1
0
Visit site
El Pistolero said:
I'd say 50/50 reliable thus not reliable at all. They also write a lot of bull****. I'm not doubting that they have an insider at Astana that told them this story, I'm doubting if their source is being honest here. And being a historian after all, source means everything.

Just doesn't make sense to use Clen to lose weight. There are a lot of better products to use to have the same effect that aren't easily detectable and can be masked.

And if Contador really did do a blood transfusion(which is something I don't doubt at all from anyone who commonly places in the top 5 of GTs) then why did he drain blood BETWEEN the DL and the Tour where he also TOOK CLEN(according to this insider)? That just doesn't make sense at all.

And if they want to use that plasticicer test in Court then they have to test every GT contender during the Tour for it. Unless they're afraid of the results. I bet Andy wished he didn't win the Tourmalet stage then ;)

What are these other products that are so good? I don't think doping controls are sensitive enough to detect Jenny Craig meals, are they?
 
Jun 16, 2009
19,654
2
0
Visit site
El Pistolero said:
I'd say 50/50 reliable thus not reliable at all. They also write a lot of bull****. I'm not doubting that they have an insider at Astana that told them this story, I'm doubting if their source is being honest here. And being a historian after all, source means everything.

Just doesn't make sense to use Clen to lose weight. There are a lot of better products to use to have the same effect that aren't easily detectable and can be masked.

And if Contador really did do a blood transfusion(which is something I don't doubt at all from anyone who commonly places in the top 5 of GTs) then why did he drain blood BETWEEN the DL and the Tour where he also TOOK CLEN(according to this insider)? That just doesn't make sense at all.

And if they want to use that plasticicer test in Court then they have to test every GT contender during the Tour for it. Unless they're afraid of the results. I bet Andy wished he didn't win the Tourmalet stage then ;)
If this is not defending Contador then i don't know what is!
 
Jul 16, 2010
17,455
5
0
Visit site
Yes, unlike you guys I want all GT contenders(and Cadel Evans) to be tested with this plastic test.

All I can conclude is that you guys don't want a clean sport, but just want one person to be singled out.
 
Jul 16, 2010
17,455
5
0
Visit site
hrotha said:
What the hell are you talking about.

Well, my post where you questioned my objectivity had 2 things in it. One was about Humo not being reliable. Since I doubt you're from Belgium you don't know **** about Humo thus you don't have a clue about it. The second part was about using the plastic test on everyone instead of just Contador. That's what I'm talking about.
 
El Pistolero said:
Well, my post where you questioned my objectivity had 2 things in it. One was about Humo not being reliable. Since I doubt you're from Belgium you don't know **** about Humo thus you don't have a clue about it. The second part was about using the plastic test on everyone instead of just Contador. That's what I'm talking about.
No, you're saying we're singling out Contador for whatever reason, when most people here are actually fairly consistent about all dopers and the only inconsistencies I've noticed come from people defending Contador.
 
Jul 16, 2010
17,455
5
0
Visit site
hrotha said:
No, you're saying we're singling out Contador for whatever reason, when most people here are actually fairly consistent about all dopers and the only inconsistencies I've noticed come from people defending Contador.

No, they're not. Vino is a hero here while some people here want a lifetime ban for Conti.

And let's not forget the devil reincarnated, Ricardo Ricco. How many complaints I've heard here for him returning after his doping scandal.

Look, if you want to nail Contador for blood doping just based on this plastic test then you're going to have to test all GT contenders for the plasticizer test. Thus not singling him out. If you want to nail him for Clen, then nail him for Clen.

From the little info we've gotten about this positive plasticizer test I can only assume Contador was the only one tested for it this Tour.
 
May 8, 2009
376
0
0
Visit site
I could agree with El Pistolero that if plasticizers become probatory then the next logical step is to analyze the same thing in all the contenders of Contador during all these years. However that argument should not be taken to diminish the pressure on Contador or to justify not using the test for plasticizers with him.

For me this whole affair is a great oportunity to openly show that a big amount of cyclists are dopers. Contador is now a proven doper. Let's continue until the sport is clean or reinvented. Burn it and vae victis!
 
El Pistolero said:
No, they're not. Vino is a hero here while some people here want a lifetime ban for Conti.

And let's not forget the devil reincarnated, Ricardo Ricco. How many complaints I've heard here for him returning after his doping scandal.

Look, if you want to nail Contador for blood doping just based on this plastic test then you're going to have to test all GT contenders for the plasticizer test. Thus not singling him out. If you want to nail him for Clen, then nail him for Clen.

From the little info we've gotten about this positive plasticizer test I can only assume Contador was the only one tested for it this Tour.
Vino is a hero at the Professional road racing forum, not at the Clinic, so to speak. We know what the game is about, we know what the top riders have to do to be up there so this is in no way about Contador, no one is singling him out in that regard, except in that he's actually tested positive. No one would defend Vino here if he was caught.

I think Contador should get 2 years for clen, nothing else.

Chances are all the top guys were tested for plasticizers, as part of the process to validate the test, but Contador's results were leaked because of the clen positive. Now normally I'd say leaking test results is a bad thing, but that would only be if the UCI was doing its job properly and not keeping things secret.
 
Jul 22, 2009
3,355
1
0
Visit site
hrotha said:
No, you're saying we're singling out Contador for whatever reason, when most people here are actually fairly consistent about all dopers and the only inconsistencies I've noticed come from people defending Contador.
I'd say so. I understand armstrong has really made some detractors during his time, but this lack of objectivity now is very transparent. There are a few obvious contadorphiles in the mix. I think python is the worst offender I have found. Publicus has just flat out disappeared.