Contador Isolates Self

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Jul 20, 2009
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he does have a lot to learn about keeping a team mate in the race when they could not or did not do it themself's , but learning how to win in is not in question . you think in spain they care about lance co. this is the return of the golden age of cycling in spain , the king has been dethroned ! , and it was always said that it will come down to the strongest rider , maybe the strongest rider needed to prove a point , and enough room at the top for one . who wants to be over shadowed by the year astana swept the tour , instead of the year contador won the tour .and everyone knows that the team is breaking up and each will go his own way ,
 
Jul 23, 2009
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get off his back

I cannot believe some of the stuff posted on this thread. Who in their right mind would not attack when you are the strongest rider in the race, just on the off chance that a team mate MAY finish on the podium. He clearly knows that the majority of team support is ( unofficially ) with Armstrong, who,by the way, would never have contemplated risking a commanding position just so one of his teammates could move up one position.

I think Contador will win this tour IN SPITE of the team, not because of it. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Armstrong but unfortunately this year the tv coverage has been him & no-one else. In my view ( humble as it is ) Alberto could well go on & prove himself the equal of Lance at his peak. Even the incredibely egotistical Bruyneel has conceded that he has never seen anyone accelerate up mountains like Contador does.

And,no, I'm not Spanish. I just like to see cycling performed the way it should be,,,,ie IF YOU ARE THE BEST , GO OUT AND PROVE IT.LANCE DID FOR YEARS AND SO WILL CONTADOR.
 
This whole Forum has been more entertaining than the actual Tour. There is two clear views on everything related to the Tour, the average cycling fans view and the view with Lance shades on.

The attacks on Contador are easy to figure, Contador has whipped Lance big time, there is no argument on that, so those with Lance shades on need to belittle Contador in whatever way they can to feed the jealousy.

Contador is 26, he was won 4 GTs ad likely many more, I dont think I have ever heard mentioned once that Contador also came back from serious illness to continue his career as a pro-cyclist. How many 3 week fans are aware of that fact.

Contador doesnt have the PR machine of Lance and his crew so he always comes out looking the bad guy when he is just doing what he wanted to do, win the Tour. If Lance had not come back, there would only ever have been one leader at the Tour this year, Contador. Kloeden would have been a deluxe domestique and Levi plan B. Only when Lance entered the picture was the 4 leaders idea mooted just so to eliminate the idea of Contador being undisputed no 1 over Lance.

Even in 1997 Bjarne Riis was official team leader of Telekom with Jan Ullrich given a free role in the case Riis wasnt up to it which he wasnt. Only then, did Ullrich become team leader. Astana should have done the same. AC no 1 with Lance, Levi in free roles and Kloeden as deluxe domestique.

What was Astanas no 1 aim, entering the Tour, TO WIN IT, everything else is secondary. They are gonna win the Tour with Contador as predicted. With the benefit of hindsight, even if Kloeden had stayed with the lead group yesterday, he still wouldnt have overhauled Andy Schleck. Only Lance or Kloeden will be on the podium, not both. Too bad for Astana, we all knew they would dominate and they have.

It has been a circus from beginning which is why I have not watched the Tour until Lance had faded from the picture and everything is not about him anymore even though a lot of it still is about him. I never at any time want to see any one team dominate the Tour and I didnt want to see it this year, why would anybody want any team to go 1-2-3 and I bet if Lance was not on Astana, nobody and I mean nobody would want to see Astana finish 1-2-3 with or without Lance..

Its not about Astana, the Tour, AC or anythings, it is and always has been about Lance which sucks.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Ding...!
The spin doc's have been working overtime this whole tour.
Contador has done only what he had to..
 
May 5, 2009
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pmcg76 said:
This whole Forum has been more entertaining than the actual Tour. There is two clear views on everything related to the Tour, the average cycling fans view and the view with Lance shades on.

The attacks on Contador are easy to figure, Contador has whipped Lance big time, there is no argument on that, so those with Lance shades on need to belittle Contador in whatever way they can to feed the jealousy.

Contador is 26, he was won 4 GTs ad likely many more, I dont think I have ever heard mentioned once that Contador also came back from serious illness to continue his career as a pro-cyclist. How many 3 week fans are aware of that fact.

Contador doesnt have the PR machine of Lance and his crew so he always comes out looking the bad guy when he is just doing what he wanted to do, win the Tour. If Lance had not come back, there would only ever have been one leader at the Tour this year, Contador. Kloeden would have been a deluxe domestique and Levi plan B. Only when Lance entered the picture was the 4 leaders idea mooted just so to eliminate the idea of Contador being undisputed no 1 over Lance.

Even in 1997 Bjarne Riis was official team leader of Telekom with Jan Ullrich given a free role in the case Riis wasnt up to it which he wasnt. Only then, did Ullrich become team leader. Astana should have done the same. AC no 1 with Lance, Levi in free roles and Kloeden as deluxe domestique.

What was Astanas no 1 aim, entering the Tour, TO WIN IT, everything else is secondary. They are gonna win the Tour with Contador as predicted. With the benefit of hindsight, even if Kloeden had stayed with the lead group yesterday, he still wouldnt have overhauled Andy Schleck. Only Lance or Kloeden will be on the podium, not both. Too bad for Astana, we all knew they would dominate and they have.

It has been a circus from beginning which is why I have not watched the Tour until Lance had faded from the picture and everything is not about him anymore even though a lot of it still is about him. I never at any time want to see any one team dominate the Tour and I didnt want to see it this year, why would anybody want any team to go 1-2-3 and I bet if Lance was not on Astana, nobody and I mean nobody would want to see Astana finish 1-2-3 with or without Lance..

Its not about Astana, the Tour, AC or anythings, it is and always has been about Lance which sucks.
Just think to yourself, and be objective: If LA had done the same thing, distancing his own teammates and costing them potential podium spots, while gaining absolutely ZERO time on competitors from other teams, what would the reaction be? He'd be vilified. Then, we'd be discussing it in reverse. Only the Lance haters would have completely reversed their stance and maybe vice versa.

It doesn't matter who was up there, it was bad team cycling tactics, period, end of story. Just because you can attack and prove you're the best, doesn't mean you need to.

And, Astana's only goal was not just to win the tour. They came loaded, clearly to win the team classification, which they will, but they also clearly came to the tour with the goal of at least 2 men on the podium, which is why you bring Leipheimer, Kloden, LA, and AC. If it was all about just the win, you could have conceivably left one or two of the heavy hitters out and brought Noval, Horner, or others purely for help in the mountains.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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pmcg76 said:
This whole Forum has been more entertaining than the actual Tour. There is two clear views on everything related to the Tour, the average cycling fans view and the view with Lance shades on.

The attacks on Contador are easy to figure, Contador has whipped Lance big time, there is no argument on that, so those with Lance shades on need to belittle Contador in whatever way they can to feed the jealousy.

Contador is 26, he was won 4 GTs ad likely many more, I dont think I have ever heard mentioned once that Contador also came back from serious illness to continue his career as a pro-cyclist. How many 3 week fans are aware of that fact.

Contador doesnt have the PR machine of Lance and his crew so he always comes out looking the bad guy when he is just doing what he wanted to do, win the Tour. If Lance had not come back, there would only ever have been one leader at the Tour this year, Contador. Kloeden would have been a deluxe domestique and Levi plan B. Only when Lance entered the picture was the 4 leaders idea mooted just so to eliminate the idea of Contador being undisputed no 1 over Lance.

Even in 1997 Bjarne Riis was official team leader of Telekom with Jan Ullrich given a free role in the case Riis wasnt up to it which he wasnt. Only then, did Ullrich become team leader. Astana should have done the same. AC no 1 with Lance, Levi in free roles and Kloeden as deluxe domestique.

What was Astanas no 1 aim, entering the Tour, TO WIN IT, everything else is secondary. They are gonna win the Tour with Contador as predicted. With the benefit of hindsight, even if Kloeden had stayed with the lead group yesterday, he still wouldnt have overhauled Andy Schleck. Only Lance or Kloeden will be on the podium, not both. Too bad for Astana, we all knew they would dominate and they have.

It has been a circus from beginning which is why I have not watched the Tour until Lance had faded from the picture and everything is not about him anymore even though a lot of it still is about him. I never at any time want to see any one team dominate the Tour and I didnt want to see it this year, why would anybody want any team to go 1-2-3 and I bet if Lance was not on Astana, nobody and I mean nobody would want to see Astana finish 1-2-3 with or without Lance..

Its not about Astana, the Tour, AC or anythings, it is and always has been about Lance which sucks.
Great post!
 
Mar 18, 2009
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colwildcat said:
Just think to yourself, and be objective: If LA had done the same thing, distancing his own teammates and costing them potential podium spots, while gaining absolutely ZERO time on competitors from other teams, what would the reaction be? He'd be vilified. Then, we'd be discussing it in reverse. Only the Lance haters would have completely reversed their stance and maybe vice versa.

It doesn't matter who was up there, it was bad team cycling tactics, period, end of story. Just because you can attack and prove you're the best, doesn't mean you need to.

And, Astana's only goal was not just to win the tour. They came loaded, clearly to win the team classification, which they will, but they also clearly came to the tour with the goal of at least 2 men on the podium, which is why you bring Leipheimer, Kloden, LA, and AC. If it was all about just the win, you could have conceivably left one or two of the heavy hitters out and brought Noval, Horner, or others purely for help in the mountains.
Thats BS...you bring the strongest team period!! Astana have said all along that the only goal was to win the tour.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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Firstly pmcg76, great post - some posters have lost the objectivity and are basing their comments on loyalty/dislike to one rider.

colwildcat said:
Just think to yourself, and be objective......

And, Astana's only goal was not just to win the tour. They came loaded, clearly to win the team classification, which they will, but they also clearly came to the tour with the goal of at least 2 men on the podium, which is why you bring Leipheimer, Kloden, LA, and AC. If it was all about just the win, you could have conceivably left one or two of the heavy hitters out and brought Noval, Horner, or others purely for help in the mountains.
Where has that ever been said???
Here is a quote from Levi pre the Vuelta that is consistent with how an approach by any strong team with multiple contenders should operate:

For now, Contador is the chief. "I would say that Alberto is definitely the number one captain on the team," Leipheimer told Cyclingnews on Monday. "He has won the Tour, he has won the Giro, and he has proved he is the best rider when it comes to stage races…especially the Grand Tours. I don't think you could argue with that. He is definitely in the pole position and, with Andreas and me there, it will be a strong challenge.
"I think the point-out is that we have six other very strong team-mates who can protect Alberto and who can also protect Andreas and me, and so the time trials and the mountains will sort it all out. If Alberto or even Andreas or I show that we are able to win the race, everybody will support that person. That said, I saw what Alberto did on the climbs yesterday [in the Clasica a los Puertos], so I fully expect him to be the best in the Vuelta."
 
colwildcat said:
Just think to yourself, and be objective: If LA had done the same thing, distancing his own teammates and costing them potential podium spots, while gaining absolutely ZERO time on competitors from other teams, what would the reaction be? He'd be vilified. Then, we'd be discussing it in reverse. Only the Lance haters would have completely reversed their stance and maybe vice versa.
Are you kidding? When did Lance ever have a teammate that was even allowed to THINK about a podium spot? Imagine Heras, Landis, Leipheimer or Azevedo saying that they were at the Tour to win it . . . They would have been bounced from the team as fast as possible. Objectively, the situations are completely incomparable. The fact that Lance somehow thought Alberto should tolerate this situation is what is unbelievable.
 
May 5, 2009
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Publicus said:
Are you kidding? When did Lance ever have a teammate that was even allowed to THINK about a podium spot? Imagine Heras, Landis, Leipheimer or Azevedo saying that they were at the Tour to win it . . . They would have been bounced from the team as fast as possible. Objectively, the situations are completely incomparable. The fact that Lance somehow thought Alberto should tolerate this situation is what is unbelievable.
The fact of the matter is none of those guys were podium threats in those days. Leipheimer, Hamilton, etc proved it as they went to other teams and floundered. Leipheimer has arguable improved since then and has gotten great results. But, there were no credible threats on the team other than LA. I'd also submit that, doped or not, the fields in many of those Tours was much deeper than this year. There were only ever 2, maybe 3 people that had any chance of winning this year. So, you don't need a deep team to stomp the competition this year as they put together in 99-05.

I think it's naive to think that were LA capable of winning this year, that AC would have subjicated himself to the cause, or vice versa. Everyone watching knew that both of these guys, and maybe even Levi, were aiming straight at the podium, regardless of what shook out.
 
May 5, 2009
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Publicus said:
Are you kidding? When did Lance ever have a teammate that was even allowed to THINK about a podium spot? Imagine Heras, Landis, Leipheimer or Azevedo saying that they were at the Tour to win it . . . They would have been bounced from the team as fast as possible. Objectively, the situations are completely incomparable. The fact that Lance somehow thought Alberto should tolerate this situation is what is unbelievable.
And, you didn't read my post correctly. I was asking if THIS YEAR, if LA had been in the lead, and attacked Contador and Kloden, knocking them off of the podium, you would all be here calling him selfish, ruthless, an asshat, etc... Come to think of it, all the things you call him anyway. I'm just asking that people be objective and recognize that bad tactics are bad tactics, whether or not you love or hate the racer in question.
 
Jul 1, 2009
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colwildcat said:
If LA had done the same thing, distancing his own teammates ..., while gaining absolutely ZERO time on competitors from other teams, what would the reaction be?
It would have been a tactical mistake in this situation (close on time, long straight descent to the finish, ITT and other climbs coming soon). And Lance would/should have been called on it (if it happened - don't know it ever did).

Has nothing to do with the podium, the leadership controversy, politics of support, who loves Lance, who hates Lance, Kloden's misfortunes in LGB or that tatto on his shoulder.

Has all to do with winning the MJ, risks and returns. Over and over and over and over ...
 
colwildcat said:
And, you didn't read my post correctly. I was asking if THIS YEAR, if LA had been in the lead, and attacked Contador and Kloden, knocking them off of the podium, you would all be here calling him selfish, ruthless, an asshat, etc... Come to think of it, all the things you call him anyway. I'm just asking that people be objective and recognize that bad tactics are bad tactics, whether or not you love or hate the racer in question.
That changes everything. If Lance were in yellow, I'm almost positive that things would have played out completely differently. Despite what Lance was saying at the time, I think he would have expected Contador to fall into line as a domestique if he had secured yellow after the TTT. And that Lance would ride like he always rode when he was team leader back in the day, his needs and podium position came first.

So my bad about misreading you. I actually never called him an asshat.
 
Jul 21, 2009
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Psalmon said:
It would have been a tactical mistake in this situation (close on time, long straight descent to the finish, ITT and other climbs coming soon). And Lance would/should have been called on it (if it happened - don't know it ever did).

Has nothing to do with the podium, the leadership controversy, politics of support, who loves Lance, who hates Lance, Kloden's misfortunes in LGB or that tatto on his shoulder.

Has all to do with winning the MJ, risks and returns. Over and over and over and over ...
With the attack, AC distanced the closest competitor to him for the yellow jersey at that time in the race: Kloden. As you said, it has all to do with winning the MJ.
 
Jul 13, 2009
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schnebit said:
According to whom? Alberto doesn't get tired like the rest of us?
No, not like us. He surely does get tired at some point, but not like us. But you probably didn't need to be told after today.

You know, that guy who finished second today was second last yesterday. Perhaps if Contador had taken your advice and come in at 35:59, he might have gone even three seconds faster! What great tactical thinking.
 
Jul 13, 2009
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colwildcat said:
...if LA had been in the lead, and attacked ...Kloden...
That analogy does not make sense, because Contador did not attack Klöden, he attacked Fränk and Andy Schleck. If you attack someone, you don't ask that person "shall I go?" before doing the deed.
 
Jul 1, 2009
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fulcrum said:
As you said, it has all to do with winning the MJ.
No, I said "Has all to do with winning the MJ, risks and returns."

The risks and returns relate to had Contador flatted or crashed, he could have lost the MJ (see my other posts).

Heck even Phil Liggett said the same thing as they descended the Columbiere as a threesome yesterday. So enough, that guy has been part of and commentating on cycling before most of us were born. I'm wrong, he's wrong, attack attack attack. Lance Sucks. Fine.

For the record, I'm happy Alberto seems to have won his second, well earned clearly. Should be his third, but we'll never know. As it is, let's see 26 years old...Lance 33 when he "retired" --- Could Alberto someday hold up TEN fingers??? With a dedicated team (needs like the old ONCE back), these kind of learning experiences (nunca otra vez, nunca otra vez as he looked back for Kloden), and a bit of luck, it's possible.

Dios Mio! Alberto el Championissimo!

As a side, and I know it's part of other threads, but you know Johan and Lance realize this. You have to guess as smart businessmen, they want Alberto for Las Tiendas Electronicos (Radio Shack in esp?)! My sense is they've been pretty good to Alberto despite all the hubub. I say look for Alberto to stay with Astana in 2010, but don't be surprised if he's riding a Trek in '11.
 
Psalmon said:
As a side, and I know it's part of other threads, but you know Johan and Lance realize this. You have to guess as smart businessmen, they want Alberto for Las Tiendas Electronicos (Radio Shack in esp?)! My sense is they've been pretty good to Alberto despite all the hubub. I say look for Alberto to stay with Astana in 2010, but don't be surprised if he's riding a Trek in '11.
That sounds like a much better name for a team than Radio Shack, at least it does for English speakers' ear. :) Las Tiendas Electronicos.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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Psalmon said:
....As a side, and I know it's part of other threads, but you know Johan and Lance realize this. You have to guess as smart businessmen, they want Alberto for Las Tiendas Electronicos (Radio Shack in esp?)! My sense is they've been pretty good to Alberto despite all the hubub. I say look for Alberto to stay with Astana in 2010, but don't be surprised if he's riding a Trek in '11.
This is quite simple- Alberto's contract is with JB, not Astana and it is until the end of 2010. So he should be part of the new Radio Shack team.

He wont though - expect him to try and get out of his contract very soon. JB might try and hold out for a few Euro - but ultimately he will let him go as it is better to release a rider who is not happy to stay.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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This from Dirk Demol, JB's right hand man at Astana - AC went around to all his teammates before dinner last night to explain his thinking and to apologize for his 'mistake' in dropping Kloden by not listening to JB's instructions. He was apparently sincere and humble, according to Demol.
 
Jul 21, 2009
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Psalmon said:
No, I said "Has all to do with winning the MJ, risks and returns."

The risks and returns relate to had Contador flatted or crashed, he could have lost the MJ (see my other posts).

The risk of flatting or crashing is totally independent of whether Kloden is with him or not. The potential time loss from getting a flat with or without Kloden being around is pretty much the same. He needs to get a new wheel, whether it comes from Kloden or race help, it is still going to cost him some time. If he crashes, Kloden is not going to fix his broken collarbone, and any help going down hill to the finish line might not even be worth 15 seconds (specially when Kloden had his gas tank empty).

So those are the risks and returns. The attack on the other hand, gave him 2 minutes on Kloden, who was the closest guy to AC's MJ. A guy squarely aligned with the part of Astana that has been working against AC.
 
Jul 1, 2009
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Amsterhammer said:
This from Dirk Demol, JB's right hand man at Astana - AC went around to all his teammates before dinner last night to explain his thinking and to apologize for his 'mistake' in dropping Kloden by not listening to JB's instructions. He was apparently sincere and humble, according to Demol.
That is what I call Wow.

Buuuut, Alberto probably did it out of fear that someone on this backstabbing team would spike his food or drink, so like in a scene out of Wedding Crashers, Alberto would be puking his guts out just when his front forks fell off the machine because Lance, in a diabolical scheme, offered to give AC's personal mechanic either money or cancer :eek: in parallel with Johan who had two of Lances security goons strategically position large reverse windmills that would cause a headwind for Alberto (and the Schlecks) both up and back down the lake with nobody noticing (why Lance gave up time yesterday, ah hah!), while Lance's PR people handed out Livestrong musette bags to people on tight corners down the course, encouraging them to swipe at Contador's post bike change handlebars in Luz-Ardiden-like "encouragement," which was only a back up plan for Bruyneel who as I noticed earlier was throwing carpet tacks out the window from the team car behind Lance (because they used that rusty pickup truck with the gun rack and Texas plates for Alberto - with no radio assist, instead playing freekin' Radio Shack commercials in AC's ears the whole TT)!

Boy, I was wrong. That Alberto does think tactically.

Thanks for the info Amster.
 
Jul 9, 2009
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pmcg76 said:
This whole Forum has been more entertaining than the actual Tour. There is two clear views on everything related to the Tour, the average cycling fans view and the view with Lance shades on.

The attacks on Contador are easy to figure, Contador has whipped Lance big time, there is no argument on that, so those with Lance shades on need to belittle Contador in whatever way they can to feed the jealousy.

Contador is 26, he was won 4 GTs ad likely many more, I dont think I have ever heard mentioned once that Contador also came back from serious illness to continue his career as a pro-cyclist. How many 3 week fans are aware of that fact.

Contador doesnt have the PR machine of Lance and his crew so he always comes out looking the bad guy when he is just doing what he wanted to do, win the Tour. If Lance had not come back, there would only ever have been one leader at the Tour this year, Contador. Kloeden would have been a deluxe domestique and Levi plan B. Only when Lance entered the picture was the 4 leaders idea mooted just so to eliminate the idea of Contador being undisputed no 1 over Lance.

Even in 1997 Bjarne Riis was official team leader of Telekom with Jan Ullrich given a free role in the case Riis wasnt up to it which he wasnt. Only then, did Ullrich become team leader. Astana should have done the same. AC no 1 with Lance, Levi in free roles and Kloeden as deluxe domestique.

What was Astanas no 1 aim, entering the Tour, TO WIN IT, everything else is secondary. They are gonna win the Tour with Contador as predicted. With the benefit of hindsight, even if Kloeden had stayed with the lead group yesterday, he still wouldnt have overhauled Andy Schleck. Only Lance or Kloeden will be on the podium, not both. Too bad for Astana, we all knew they would dominate and they have.

It has been a circus from beginning which is why I have not watched the Tour until Lance had faded from the picture and everything is not about him anymore even though a lot of it still is about him. I never at any time want to see any one team dominate the Tour and I didnt want to see it this year, why would anybody want any team to go 1-2-3 and I bet if Lance was not on Astana, nobody and I mean nobody would want to see Astana finish 1-2-3 with or without Lance..

Its not about Astana, the Tour, AC or anythings, it is and always has been about Lance which sucks.
fully agree with everything you say.
 

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