Contador Isolates Self

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Mar 18, 2009
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TRDean said:
The whole energy thing is a joke!!!! The attack lasted less than a minute...if AC is that frail and energy that scarce he is in bigger trouble than anyone knows!!! Give me a break!!! First he is a bad teammate, now he is wasting energy? If he wins the TT today talk to me about energy ok.....likewise, I will be here to suck egg if he blows it.
+1. Exactly. This whole wasting energy after a brief spurt of less than a minute is a load of BS. If Contador doesn't do well today then it won't be because he decided not to sit on the Schleck brothers's wheels for a minute yesterday.
 
May 26, 2009
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schnebit said:
OK... not sure why you wend there, but the fact is the dude (JB) has more experience winning grand tours than any DS in the sport. Does he make tactical mistakes? Of course...

I'm not sure what your point was, but you don't have to be a genious to know that if you're in yellow, and you want to win the Tour, you should conserve as much energy as possible... not expend it needlessly trying to put more time into rivals on whom you already have a good gap.
Actually I agree with you that should know what to do on this kind of a situation. After all he has all the elements together that he had with Lance 99-05: the best stage racer of his time and a hell of a team to support him.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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TRDean said:
The whole energy thing is a joke!!!! The attack lasted less than a minute...if AC is that frail and energy that scarce he is in bigger trouble than anyone knows!!! Give me a break!!! First he is a bad teammate, now he is wasting energy? If he wins the TT today talk to me about energy ok.....likewise, I will be here to suck egg if he blows it.
It's not a matter of being frail - it's a matter of recovery after hard racing day-in and day-out. They've been racing hard for 2 1/2 weeks - energy is scarce for everyone. Even the Shlecks admitted that they're getting tired and it took them a while for the legs to get warm yesterday.

The strongest guy doesn't always win the race - the smartest guy does.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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Publicus said:
He HAD a team built around him until Mr. Armstrong showed up on JB's doorstep. The rest is history....
Yes and no... sans Lance, there's still Levi and Kloden - both previously finished on the podium.
 
schnebit said:
OK... not sure why you wend there, but the fact is the dude (JB) has more experience winning grand tours than any DS in the sport. Does he make tactical mistakes? Of course...

I'm not sure what your point was, but you don't have to be a genious to know that if you're in yellow, and you want to win the Tour, you should conserve as much energy as possible... not expend it needlessly trying to put more time into rivals on whom you already have a good gap.
So then why did JB use team energy driving the break on Stage 3? They already had a decent gap on the group of GC candidates including Astana's best GC hopeful and it wasn't clear that they were coming back since Columbia was driving the train.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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Publicus said:
So then why did JB use team energy driving the break on Stage 3? They already had a decent gap on the group of GC candidates including Astana's best GC hopeful and it wasn't clear that they were coming back since Columbia was driving the train.
The jersey wasn't theirs yet on Stage 3... things were still getting sorted-out. What would Alberto have gained if the attack yesterday was successful?
 
schnebit said:
Yes and no... sans Lance, there's still Levi and Kloden - both previously finished on the podium.
There is no ambiguiity about it. AC was the man on that team. Levi and Kloden may have made podium before but NEITHER has ever had the stuff to be leader of a team. Remember Levi's days at Rabobank and Gerlsteiner (sp)?

Armstrong coming back to this team is why I lost respect for him. He created this situation with a healthy assist by JB. I don't fault Contador.
 
schnebit said:
The jersey wasn't theirs yet on Stage 3... things were still getting sorted-out. What would Alberto have gained if the attack yesterday was successful?
Yes. He would have put time into the Schleck Brothers. If it had worked.

The only people who thought Lance had a chance to win was Versus, Lance and his Livestrong Nation. I was never under any illusion that a 38 year old man, out of competition for 3.5 years, and recovering from a broken collarbone was going to win the Tour. The fact that JB waffled on the leadership issue (and this was a big deal (optically)) was just one more instance where Contador learned that he couldn't be trusted.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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Publicus said:
Yes. He would have put time into the Schleck Brothers. If it had worked.

The only people who thought Lance had a chance to win was Versus, Lance and his Livestrong Nation. I was never under any illusion that a 38 year old man, out of competition for 3.5 years, and recovering from a broken collarbone was going to win the Tour. The fact that JB waffled on the leadership issue (and this was a big deal (optically)) was just one more instance where Contador learned that he couldn't be trusted.
Let's leave Lance out of this for a moment...

He would have put time into the Shlecks, but he already had 2.5 minutes on Andy... I'm not sure that the risk would have been worth it. Bottom-line is it really didn't matter, and all he accomplished was knocking his team mate off the podium...

Granted, Lance coming back basically threw a grenade into the team. What should Lance have done, though? Stay retired?
 
Jul 7, 2009
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elapid said:
+1. Exactly. This whole wasting energy after a brief spurt of less than a minute is a load of BS. If Contador doesn't do well today then it won't be because he decided not to sit on the Schleck brothers's wheels for a minute yesterday.
Racing is all about recovery... he who can go hard and recover, go hard and recover, go hard and recover wins. Period...

At some point, you tap your reserves and can't recover... My point is, why risk doing that if you don't have to?
 
schnebit said:
Let's leave Lance out of this for a moment...

He would have put time into the Shlecks, but he already had 2.5 minutes on Andy... I'm not sure that the risk would have been worth it. Bottom-line is it really didn't matter, and all he accomplished was knocking his team mate off the podium...

Granted, Lance coming back basically threw a grenade into the team. What should Lance have done, though? Stay retired?
You always put time into your rivals when you can. So if he could have gotten another minute on the Schlecks that's more cushion for Mount Ventoux. Hell, look at how much time Kloden lost over the last KM of the climb (he was a 1:14 back at the summit).

As for Lance: Yes he should have stayed retired. Or he could have formed his own team. Or JB could have released AC when he knew he couldn't actually control Lance. In any event, that ship has sailed.
 
Jul 13, 2009
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schnebit said:
Racing is all about recovery... he who can go hard and recover, go hard and recover, go hard and recover wins. Period...

At some point, you tap your reserves and can't recover... My point is, why risk doing that if you don't have to?
Alberto Contador's ability to recover is fine.
 
schnebit said:
Let's leave Lance out of this for a moment...

He would have put time into the Shlecks, but he already had 2.5 minutes on Andy... I'm not sure that the risk would have been worth it. Bottom-line is it really didn't matter, and all he accomplished was knocking his team mate off the podium...

Granted, Lance coming back basically threw a grenade into the team. What should Lance have done, though? Stay retired?
I agree that the attack doesn't make much sense, tactically--but I'm also a big Kloden fan, so I was sorry to see him lose time to the Schlecks and Armstrong.

As for Armstrong's options: maybe a team w/out the current best stage racer in the world would have been a good place for him to ride as captain. But then he would have lost the advantage of all those big guns for the TTT & the mountains and he would have been riding w/out Brunyeel (whose merit, at this point, I question--Armstrong could do just as well on his own, I think).
 
Jul 7, 2009
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Publicus said:
You always put time into your rivals when you can. So if he could have gotten another minute on the Schlecks that's more cushion for Mount Ventoux. Hell, look at how much time Kloden lost over the last KM of the climb (he was a 1:14 back at the summit).

As for Lance: Yes he should have stayed retired. Or he could have formed his own team. Or JB could have released AC when he knew he couldn't actually control Lance. In any event, that ship has sailed.
I hear ya... I think that, at the end of the day, Alberto is going to win the Tour regardless. Lance and JB leaving and forming their own team is good for Alberto.

So, bottom-line is regardless of all of the crap that went on during this Tour, things will still work out for Contador now and going forward.
 
schnebit said:
Racing is all about recovery... he who can go hard and recover, go hard and recover, go hard and recover wins. Period...

At some point, you tap your reserves and can't recover... My point is, why risk doing that if you don't have to?
I assume the rider knows himself better than you or I do, so if he felt good enough to go without damaging himself, he would go.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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schnebit said:
Let's leave Lance out of this for a moment...

He would have put time into the Shlecks, but he already had 2.5 minutes on Andy... I'm not sure that the risk would have been worth it. Bottom-line is it really didn't matter, and all he accomplished was knocking his team mate off the podium...

Granted, Lance coming back basically threw a grenade into the team. What should Lance have done, though? Stay retired?
He didn't knock Kloden off the podium...Kloden did that to himself...he should have eaten!! Kloden has a lot to learn. So do you.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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TRDean said:
He didn't knock Kloden off the podium...Kloden did that to himself...he should have eaten!! Kloden has a lot to learn. So do you.
So do I? What does this have to do with me?

Did you pack Kloden's lunch? Were you at the feed zone? Kloden... is that you?

Look, all of us are speculating.... we're not pros (I don't think), we're not team managers or directors... we're just trying to have a good discussion and some fun speculating.

Heck, none of us were on that mountain yesterday... we're just a bunch of arm-chair quarterbacks.

I'm not quite sure why all of these discussions have to degrade into personal attacks. Why does everyone get so offended when someone doesn't agree with them?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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schnebit said:
So do I? What does this have to do with me?

Did you pack Kloden's lunch? Were you at the feed zone? Kloden... is that you?

I'm not quite sure why all of these discussions have to degrade into personal attacks. Why does everyone get so offended when someone doesn't agree with them?
Because I'm tired of the argument that Contador made a personal attack on Kloden thats why!!! He didn't!!! Kloden is to blame for the bonk, not Contador!!! Bad teammate, burning energy...rediculous.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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TRDean said:
Because I'm tired of the argument that Contador made a personal attack on Kloden thats why!!! He didn't!!! Kloden is to blame for the bonk, not Contador!!! Bad teammate, burning energy...rediculous.
Well, here's the thing - I never said anything bad about Alberto or his intentions... I never said it was an attack against Kloden... to the contrary. I just don't think that Alberto thought about the reprocussions of his actions. Evidenced by the fact that he was looking around for Kloden once he realized that the attack wasn't going to stick.

I never said he was being malicious or trying to read into his intent - I just said that, in my opinion, it wasn't smart racing.

You don't have to agree with me... but saying that I have a lot to learn is just ignorant and irrelevant.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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For the record...

Alberto Contador is a cycling God... he doesn't get tired, he doesn't make tactical mistakes, he can smoke any single rider (or entire team for that matter) in the Pro peleton. He's going to squash Armstrong's record of 7 Tour wins... My prediction, he wins at least 10-15....

He's beyond reproach, he's beyond criticism, he can do no wrong...

The fact that his entire team is riding against him, and he's still dominating the Tour by an insurmountable margin, speaks for itself.

Please, forgive me for second-guessing his tactics and not feeling sorry for his plight.
 
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schnebit said:
Well, here's the thing - I never said anything bad about Alberto or his intentions... I never said it was an attack against Kloden... to the contrary. I just don't think that Alberto thought about the reprocussions of his actions. Evidenced by the fact that he was looking around for Kloden once he realized that the attack wasn't going to stick.

I never said he was being malicious or trying to read into his intent - I just said that, in my opinion, it wasn't smart racing.

You don't have to agree with me... but saying that I have a lot to learn is just ignorant and irrelevant.
I don't think Contador realized that Kloden was close to going OTB. Fact is that he would have probably broken ANYWAY. I mean, he couldn't hold Lance and Nabali's wheel in the last K of blat terrain. Seems like he was toast regardless of what happened.
 
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schnebit said:
For the record...

Alberto Contador is a cycling God... he doesn't get tired, he doesn't make tactical mistakes, he can smoke any single rider (or entire team for that matter) in the Pro peleton. He's going to squash Armstrong's record of 7 Tour wins... My prediction, he wins at least 10-15....

He's beyond reproach, he's beyond criticism, he can do no wrong...

The fact that his entire team is riding against him, and he's still dominating the Tour by an insurmountable margin, speaks for itself.

Please, forgive me for second-guessing his tactics and not feeling sorry for his plight. I am stupid, ignorant and my opinion is worthless in light of his Grace.
That team quit supporting him last November...
 
Mar 18, 2009
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schnebit said:
Racing is all about recovery... he who can go hard and recover, go hard and recover, go hard and recover wins. Period...

At some point, you tap your reserves and can't recover... My point is, why risk doing that if you don't have to?
A winner likes to win. Why not put time into your rivals when you have an opportunity to do so?

Let me propose a scenario: Stage 17 - Contador does not attack. Stage 18 - Andy Schleck limits his losses in the iTT to less than 30 seconds. Stage 19 - Andy Schleck attacks on Ventoux, Contador bonks and loses over 2 minutes and the TdF.

There are two stages to come (well, one in progress) which can change the course of the Tour for Contador. Admittedly this is unlikely, but it is still possible. Contador's attack yesterday was one of only two remaining opportunities for him to put time into the Schleck brothers, particularly Andy, before Ventoux. Anything can happen on a mountain stage, so why not try to maximize your time gains against your main rivals? The attack didn't work, but he gave it a go. An attack of less than a minute is not going to bust his energy reserves for today or Ventoux. He may bust into his energy reserves on any given day and bonk, but good nutrition and sleep will allow him (or any rider) to recover and compete the following day.
 

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