Contador Isolates Self

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Jul 13, 2009
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If you regard the situation Contador was in at the time, it didn't look like a very bad choice. There was a point in attacking the Schlecks, so that's what he did. It proved to be a mistake because all he did was drop Klöden, but it's difficult to predict that. I'm sure Bruyneel has enough experience to consider that risk, but I can understand Contador does not trust Bruyneel at this point.

Contador receives more criticism for this than is justified, especially from Bruyneel. He should not be publicly patronizing his own rider who is dominating the race. In Bruyneel's place, I'd say 'Contador tried to put time on Andy Schleck, but failed,' and leave it at that.
 
Jul 9, 2009
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elapid said:
This is probably going to ignite some flames, but having just watched the stage (and reading post-race statements by Contador and Bruyneel) I am not really sure what Contador did that was so wrong. He talked to Kloden, Kloden was about to bonk and told AC to go for it, Contador then tried to distance the Schleck brothers to maximize his advantages over Wiggins (and yes, probably Lance and Kloden), and when this didn't work he sat on the back of the Schlecks. What's so horrible about the team and race leader trying to gain time on his rivals? Bruyneel may have suggested that he didn't need to attack, but would he have said the same thing to Armstrong in 1999-2005? Why would you tell your best rider and race leader not to increase his time gains over his main competition and gain a mental edge over these cyclists? He tested once and then sat back when it didn't work, so he expended minimal additional energy and conserved for today's TT.
the thing is that everything contador does i blown out of proportion by the lance fanboys. every attack he makes is overanalyzed (and for some reason looked at from a domestiques point of view) and he is judged to another standard compared to captains on other teams (historically too..and that includes lance). the only reason for that is because the lance fanboys are mad that their hero couldnt hang with AC and general ignorance of cycling and its history.
 
May 26, 2009
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Also Contador is taking alot of stick for attacking and blowing Kloden out the back. I'm pretty sure JB would have taken all the credit if Kloden didn't blow and one or both of the Schlecks cracked.
 
TRDean said:
Just a thought...I wonder if there is a positive correlation between LA fans and posters claiming that AC is a bad person and teammate? Just curious.
No, no, no, no , no.
Purely coincidental. Nothing to with the 10 seconds it might have cost Lance.:rolleyes:

I'm sure, if Berto catches and passes Andy Schleck in today's ITT, they will be back, to accuse him of pacing!:D
 
Jun 27, 2009
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elapid said:
Why would you tell your best rider and race leader not to increase his time gains over his main competition and gain a mental edge over these cyclists? He tested once and then sat back when it didn't work, so he expended minimal additional energy and conserved for today's TT.
Why ?!? Because almighty King Twittstrong ( while playing his mindgames ) said so and faithful army of his Versus brainwashed fanboys can't stop repeating this nonsense over and over again.
You are just wasting your time with this bunch of Lance believers :rolleyes:
 
May 26, 2009
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mellow velo said:
i'm sure, if berto catches and passes andy schleck in today's itt, they will be back, to accuse him of pacing!:d
rofl lmao

Infact I think that Bertie will probably abandon on the road to Paris, just so Astana don't win the Tour.
 
Jul 9, 2009
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Jonathan said:
If you regard the situation Contador was in at the time, it didn't look like a very bad choice. There was a point in attacking the Schlecks, so that's what he did. It proved to be a mistake because all he did was drop Klöden, but it's difficult to predict that. I'm sure Bruyneel has enough experience to consider that risk, but I can understand Contador does not trust Bruyneel at this point.

Contador receives more criticism for this than is justified, especially from Bruyneel. He should not be publicly patronizing his own rider who is dominating the race. In Bruyneel's place, I'd say 'Contador tried to put time on Andy Schleck, but failed,' and leave it at that.
exactly. the attack was a mistake (in hindsight) but on any other tour or team it would have been a small thing..attacks often fail. and the bottom line is that it didnt end up hurting contador..which is what the the team manager should be focusing on. (or actually, helping contador....)
 
Jul 13, 2009
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But it could be important for Contador that Armstrong doesn't reach 2nd place. They'll be in different teams next year and he will want to have a psychological advantage over the American.

If all podium spots are for Astana riders, it will look as of any of them could have won, depending on team decisions. Armstrong will indirectly allude to that should he reach 2nd place.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Jonathan said:
But it could be important for Contador that Armstrong doesn't reach 2nd place. They'll be in different teams next year and he will want to have a psychological advantage over the American.

If all podium spots are for Astana riders, it will look as of any of them could have won, depending on team decisions. Armstrong will indirectly allude to that should he reach 2nd place.
Good point there!! Had not thought of that. But true!!
 
Jonathan said:
But it could be important for Contador that Armstrong doesn't reach 2nd place. They'll be in different teams next year and he will want to have a psychological advantage over the American.

If all podium spots are for Astana riders, it will look as of any of them could have won, depending on team decisions. Armstrong will indirectly allude to that should he reach 2nd place.
He will allude to that even if he doesn't. But a very good point. The psychological warfare for the 2010 Tour has already started. ;)
 
I know that the important thing for Astana is that they win the overall, but, as a Kloden fan, I was bummed when he fell off the pace. I admit that I was excited at the thought of him taking back those 40-or-so seconds that Armstrong got in stage 3 and jumping into second overall (where I think he would have remained).

I'm also pretty sure that Kloden won't be too upset about it b/c he has proven time and again to be the REAL ultimate teammate (sorry Lance) by sacrificing himself and his GC ambitions for his team captain. So what's good for the team is good for him. And anyway, he DID lose steam at the end--Armstrong and Nibali brought time back pretty damn fast on the end of the climb and the descent. (And I am thoroughly impressed by Nibali's descending. Wow.)
 
In what team will be contador next year???

Forget about Garmin, forget about Caisse (still Valverde leader)

Forget Astana, Vino's return etc, forget Cervelo (not enough budget and Sastre)

A new Team will be created around Contador, maybe F1 Fernando Alonso's project, maybe Banco Santander sponsorship, maybe under the direction of awarded spanish team selection Paco Antequera...

anyway, Lance's crew in one hand with JB and Levi

and AC in another strong team, maybe not at UCI pro Tour, but a team to compete Tdf.

Think that winning tdf will be his best revenge to that trio....
 
mr. tibbs said:
I know that the important thing for Astana is that they win the overall, but, as a Kloden fan, I was bummed when he fell off the pace. I admit that I was excited at the thought of him taking back those 40-or-so seconds that Armstrong got in stage 3 and jumping into second overall (where I think he would have remained).

I'm also pretty sure that Kloden won't be too upset about it b/c he has proven time and again to be the REAL ultimate teammate (sorry Lance) by sacrificing himself and his GC ambitions for his team captain. So what's good for the team is good for him. And anyway, he DID lose steam at the end--Armstrong and Nibali brought time back pretty damn fast on the end of the climb and the descent. (And I am thoroughly impressed by Nibali's descending. Wow.)
I don't think anyone was more bummed about the situation than Contador. Kloden has been there for him through a couple of tough situations (Giro last year). But I agree with you, I don't think Kloden will be too upset about it. Which is part of what I like and respect about him. Armstrong's post-race comments were just one more example of how poor of a teammate he can be when he's not the Boss.
 
Aguirre said:
In what team will be contador next year???

Forget about Garmin, forget about Caisse (still Valverde leader)

Forget Astana, Vino's return etc, forget Cervelo (not enough budget and Sastre)

A new Team will be created around Contador, maybe F1 Fernando Alonso's project, maybe Banco Santander sponsorship, maybe under the direction of awarded spanish team selection Paco Antequera...

anyway, Lance's crew in one hand with JB and Levi

and AC in another strong team, maybe not at UCI pro Tour, but a team to compete Tdf.

Think that winning tdf will be his best revenge to that trio....
Why are you writing off Garmin? I think they have a strong team but are missing a true GC candidate (sorry Wiggins and Vandevelde just aren't). Plus we have the solid reports that the parties were in discussion earlier this year prior to the Tour. Personally I think it would be the best situation for Contador (unquestioned leadership and introduction to the American media) and American cycling (2 strong American teams plus whatever the Armstrong-Radio Shack team turns out to be). And I think Matt White has the right "attitude" for someone like Contador.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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Futuroscope said:
...and the bottom line is that it didnt end up hurting contador..which is what the the team manager should be focusing on. (or actually, helping contador....)
Good point... It didn't end up hurting him this time. Should have listened to his director, though, because it could have been disastrous.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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schnebit said:
Good point... It didn't end up hurting him this time. Should have listened to his director, though, because it could have been disastrous.
Funny....the prevailing thought is that the director never makes tactical mistakes...guess what...they do. JB is nothing more than a high priced Gigilo in the car...there to do what ever (and I mean what ever) Lance wants...including sucking his nutt!!
 
Jul 23, 2009
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AC's Attitude

After two years ago, at the end of the Vuelta, when he complained that Levi was so close behind him that Levi could not have been supporting him, did you really expect anything different? Yes, he is probably the greatest climber, and as LA said the best stage racer now, he still needs to learn that he needs a complete team to win the Grand Tours, and even the not so grand tours.
 
Jimatix said:
After two years ago, at the end of the Vuelta, when he complained that Levi was so close behind him that Levi could not have been supporting him, did you really expect anything different? Yes, he is probably the greatest climber, and as LA said the best stage racer now, he still needs to learn that he needs a complete team to win the Grand Tours, and even the not so grand tours.
I recall that the statement was mistranslated (which has happened more than once during this tour).
 
schnebit said:
Good point... It didn't end up hurting him this time. Should have listened to his director, though, because it could have been disastrous.
I think wherever he goes next year, he's going to have to find a DS that he trusts like his personal mechanic. That's what Lance has with JB and the Schleck Brothers have with Riis.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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TRDean said:
Funny....the prevailing thought is that the director never makes tactical mistakes...guess what...they do. JB is nothing more than a high priced Gigilo in the car...there to do what ever (and I mean what ever) Lance wants...including sucking his nutt!!
OK... not sure why you wend there, but the fact is the dude (JB) has more experience winning grand tours than any DS in the sport. Does he make tactical mistakes? Of course...

I'm not sure what your point was, but you don't have to be a genious to know that if you're in yellow, and you want to win the Tour, you should conserve as much energy as possible... not expend it needlessly trying to put more time into rivals on whom you already have a good gap.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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Publicus said:
I think wherever he goes next year, he's going to have to find a DS that he trusts like his personal mechanic. That's what Lance has with JB and the Schleck Brothers have with Riis.
Totally... He needs to get on a team that's built around him. He needs to have guys around him that are strong enough to support him, but not strong enough to contest him.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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Jimatix said:
After two years ago, at the end of the Vuelta, when he complained that Levi was so close behind him that Levi could not have been supporting him, did you really expect anything different?
What should Levi have done? If AC is as strong as everyone is making him out to be, this wouldn't even be a discussion. He should have left Levi in the dust...
 
Mar 18, 2009
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schnebit said:
OK... not sure why you wend there, but the fact is the dude (JB) has more experience winning grand tours than any DS in the sport. Does he make tactical mistakes? Of course...

I'm not sure what your point was, but you don't have to be a genious to know that if you're in yellow, and you want to win the Tour, you should conserve as much energy as possible... not expend it needlessly trying to put more time into rivals on whom you already have a good gap.
The whole energy thing is a joke!!!! The attack lasted less than a minute...if AC is that frail and energy that scarce he is in bigger trouble than anyone knows!!! Give me a break!!! First he is a bad teammate, now he is wasting energy? If he wins the TT today talk to me about energy ok.....likewise, I will be here to suck egg if he blows it.
 
schnebit said:
Totally... He needs to get on a team that's built around him. He needs to have guys around him that are strong enough to support him, but not strong enough to contest him.
He HAD a team built around him until Mr. Armstrong showed up on JB's doorstep. The rest is history....
 
Publicus said:
I think wherever he goes next year, he's going to have to find a DS that he trusts like his personal mechanic. That's what Lance has with JB and the Schleck Brothers have with Riis.
I dunno, considering that excurciating wheel change yesterday, he should probably hold any prospective DS to higher standards. ;)

And about your earlier assertion that you "don't think anyone was more bummed about the situation than Contador," I agree. I got a laugh out of Contador's glancing over his shoulders every few seconds after the Schlecks had caught back on.

Oh well, live and learn.
 

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