Contador - last year - more risk ?

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Re: Re:

Metabolol said:
The Hitch said:
At no point after psm was froome under 90% likely to win the tour. This "Quintana was better, froome lucky to hold him off" is some brailsfraudesque historical revisionism.
Maybe not but Quintana and Movistar didn't race 100% to win. This joint leadership thing they had going on with Quintana and Valverde is not the way to ride if you want to win a Tour. Unzue messed up and Quintana got **** again although Quintana himself could have done things differently.
Quintana had plenty of chances to attack and never did. It's either a) because he wasn't strong enough or b) because he's a coward or c) he's some kind of moron who has no idea how to race.

In either case he didn't deserve to win the tour. Froome won easy.
 
Mar 13, 2015
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Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
Metabolol said:
The Hitch said:
At no point after psm was froome under 90% likely to win the tour. This "Quintana was better, froome lucky to hold him off" is some brailsfraudesque historical revisionism.
Maybe not but Quintana and Movistar didn't race 100% to win. This joint leadership thing they had going on with Quintana and Valverde is not the way to ride if you want to win a Tour. Unzue messed up and Quintana got **** again although Quintana himself could have done things differently.
Quintana had plenty of chances to attack and never did. It's either a) because he wasn't strong enough or b) because he's a coward or c) he's some kind of moron who has no idea how to race.

In either case he didn't deserve to win the tour. Froome won easy.
Exactly this!
 
Sep 5, 2011
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IMO Quantana pushed himself as hard as possible. He wasn't able to attack at points in the race where I hoped he would, where I felt he needed to attack. Sky was pushing the pace too hard though. He tried some moves that he gave up on once he realized they wouldn't stick. Why would he have been too "cowardly" to attack to win when he had the biggest opportunity in his career? Some of the insults that people make towards riders on this forum disgust me really. It seems like people get frustrated when a rider isn't able to light up a race, and blame it on the rider for being too cowardly or boring etc..
 
Aug 4, 2011
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Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
Metabolol said:
The Hitch said:
At no point after psm was froome under 90% likely to win the tour. This "Quintana was better, froome lucky to hold him off" is some brailsfraudesque historical revisionism.
Maybe not but Quintana and Movistar didn't race 100% to win. This joint leadership thing they had going on with Quintana and Valverde is not the way to ride if you want to win a Tour. Unzue messed up and Quintana got **** again although Quintana himself could have done things differently.
Quintana had plenty of chances to attack and never did. It's either a) because he wasn't strong enough or b) because he's a coward or c) he's some kind of moron who has no idea how to race.

In either case he didn't deserve to win the tour. Froome won easy.

Bull crap ...no wind split and Froome would have finished 2nd.
Do you actually watch the race or do you watch the hitch version that matches your fairy tale. Did you see all the Nods to Thomas when he was sucking his wheel.
Froome could not respond to attacks. Thomas had to ease up. Did you hear the interviews after Froome won his stage. Porte " we will put the screw in if we can" he couldn't. After that win Froome was finished just like the Dauphine when he went bonkers on Bertie but could not drop him. and then was spent for the rest of the race. He certainly was not injured. the stage up to FE proved that.
Froome was finished in the last week of the tour . If that was Astana and Aru they would have taken at least 2 or 3 mins out of Froome in the last week.
 
Re: Re:

ray j willings said:
The Hitch said:
Metabolol said:
The Hitch said:
At no point after psm was froome under 90% likely to win the tour. This "Quintana was better, froome lucky to hold him off" is some brailsfraudesque historical revisionism.
Maybe not but Quintana and Movistar didn't race 100% to win. This joint leadership thing they had going on with Quintana and Valverde is not the way to ride if you want to win a Tour. Unzue messed up and Quintana got **** again although Quintana himself could have done things differently.
Quintana had plenty of chances to attack and never did. It's either a) because he wasn't strong enough or b) because he's a coward or c) he's some kind of moron who has no idea how to race.

In either case he didn't deserve to win the tour. Froome won easy.

Bull crap ...no wind split and Froome would have finished 2nd.
Do you actually watch the race or do you watch the hitch version that matches your fairy tale. Did you see all the Nods to Thomas when he was sucking his wheel.
Froome could not respond to attacks. Thomas had to ease up. Did you hear the interviews after Froome won his stage. Porte " we will put the screw in if we can" he couldn't. After that win Froome was finished just like the Dauphine when he went bonkers on Bertie but could not drop him. and then was spent for the rest of the race. He certainly was not injured. the stage up to FE proved that.
Froome was finished in the last week of the tour . If that was Astana and Aru they would have taken at least 2 or 3 mins out of Froome in the last week.
You should put that crystal ball to better use
 
May 13, 2015
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Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
Metabolol said:
The Hitch said:
At no point after psm was froome under 90% likely to win the tour. This "Quintana was better, froome lucky to hold him off" is some brailsfraudesque historical revisionism.
Maybe not but Quintana and Movistar didn't race 100% to win. This joint leadership thing they had going on with Quintana and Valverde is not the way to ride if you want to win a Tour. Unzue messed up and Quintana got **** again although Quintana himself could have done things differently.
Quintana had plenty of chances to attack and never did. It's either a) because he wasn't strong enough or b) because he's a coward or c) he's some kind of moron who has no idea how to race.

In either case he didn't deserve to win the tour. Froome won easy.
They didn't use the team correctly either. Valverde was mostly riding for himself. Had the team been behind Quintana 100% he could have at least been in a better position to do something.

I don't know what would have happened but you don't win the TDF with that approach.
 
Mar 13, 2015
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Re: Re:

Metabolol said:
The Hitch said:
Metabolol said:
The Hitch said:
At no point after psm was froome under 90% likely to win the tour. This "Quintana was better, froome lucky to hold him off" is some brailsfraudesque historical revisionism.
Maybe not but Quintana and Movistar didn't race 100% to win. This joint leadership thing they had going on with Quintana and Valverde is not the way to ride if you want to win a Tour. Unzue messed up and Quintana got **** again although Quintana himself could have done things differently.
Quintana had plenty of chances to attack and never did. It's either a) because he wasn't strong enough or b) because he's a coward or c) he's some kind of moron who has no idea how to race.

In either case he didn't deserve to win the tour. Froome won easy.
They didn't use the team correctly either. Valverde was mostly riding for himself. Had the team been behind Quintana 100% he could have at least been in a better position to do something.

I don't know what would have happened but you don't win the TDF with that approach.
Valverde is a team player, and always was, He was on Quintana's disposal the whole Tour, whenever needed. He attacked to weaken his opponents, made springboards, guide him through the race. He hold his position alright, but never jeopardized Quintana. Nairo was simply not aggressive enough, Froome was fading, and he reacted too late. That's it.
 
Re: Re:

ray j willings said:
The Hitch said:
Metabolol said:
The Hitch said:
At no point after psm was froome under 90% likely to win the tour. This "Quintana was better, froome lucky to hold him off" is some brailsfraudesque historical revisionism.
Maybe not but Quintana and Movistar didn't race 100% to win. This joint leadership thing they had going on with Quintana and Valverde is not the way to ride if you want to win a Tour. Unzue messed up and Quintana got **** again although Quintana himself could have done things differently.
Quintana had plenty of chances to attack and never did. It's either a) because he wasn't strong enough or b) because he's a coward or c) he's some kind of moron who has no idea how to race.

In either case he didn't deserve to win the tour. Froome won easy.

Bull crap ...no wind split and Froome would have finished 2nd.
Do you actually watch the race or do you watch the hitch version that matches your fairy tale. Did you see all the Nods to Thomas when he was sucking his wheel.
Froome could not respond to attacks. Thomas had to ease up. Did you hear the interviews after Froome won his stage. Porte " we will put the screw in if we can" he couldn't. After that win Froome was finished just like the Dauphine when he went bonkers on Bertie but could not drop him. and then was spent for the rest of the race. He certainly was not injured. the stage up to FE proved that.
Froome was finished in the last week of the tour . If that was Astana and Aru they would have taken at least 2 or 3 mins out of Froome in the last week.
I am not buying that Aru i son the same level as Quintana
 
Re:

ray j willings said:
Maybe he would have finished last or 3rd who knows but without it I do know Quintana would have won.
ray, your persistence makes me laugh heartily. :D hat's a bit ridiculous just to rub a single stage from a whole race picture and make a strong conclusion based on that. if there was no stage 2, the race would have developed the different way, how it would've gone you, me or anyone else have no clue. ;)
 
Apr 6, 2013
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Re: Re:

18-Valve. (pithy) said:
I'm not sure if Contador can hang with those guys anymore, though, as his whole season was unimpressive, but that's another matter.
Steering this thread back on topic (i.e.-Contador)...

Unimpressive? Huh? He won the Giro & the Route du Sud, 2nd overall at Andalucía, and 5th overall at the Tour. I'd think his team and sponsors were impressed with his results.
 
Bertie will go on a full program, get a pass, and the anti-Sky will root for him to beat Dawg. Although he's on the downhill, he's still the biggest threat to Froome.

BTW, Froome managed his lead. He was never close to losing the TdF. IMO Quintana will Poulidor his way to podiums but never win. Too bad. Nairito may never get this close again and look back at the '15 TdF the way that Poupou looked back at the '64 edition, when he let his opportunity go by on the Puy de Dome.
 
Tonton said:
Bertie will go on a full program, get a pass, and the anti-Sky will root for him to beat Dawg. Although he's on the downhill, he's still the biggest threat to Froome.

BTW, Froome managed his lead. He was never close to losing the TdF. IMO Quintana will Poulidor his way to podiums but never win. Too bad. Nairito may never get this close again and look back at the '15 TdF the way that Poupou looked back at the '64 edition, when he let his opportunity go by on the Puy de Dome.
Think your underestimating Quintana
 
del1962 said:
Tonton said:
Bertie will go on a full program, get a pass, and the anti-Sky will root for him to beat Dawg. Although he's on the downhill, he's still the biggest threat to Froome.

BTW, Froome managed his lead. He was never close to losing the TdF. IMO Quintana will Poulidor his way to podiums but never win. Too bad. Nairito may never get this close again and look back at the '15 TdF the way that Poupou looked back at the '64 edition, when he let his opportunity go by on the Puy de Dome.
Think your underestimating Quintana
Not so sure. Poulidor is the prime example of a 5-7 GT potential wasted by poor tactics. I'm afraid that we see the same here. Sometimes you have to make things happen, roll the dice. In that respect, he's no Luis Ocana. He didn't race the TdF to win it, the day after PSM he didn't attack, at the Alpe stage he didn't go for broke on the Croix de Fer. He was what Jan was to Lance. So time will tell.

Maybe you and others (including me) overestimate Quintana. Not his talent, but his mental strength. I'm becoming a doubter.
 
May 19, 2015
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Quintana is a non-threat. Same with Aru. Contador IS the only one who can match Froome. But he has to be gut-loaded with the good stuff. 2016 should be the year of the contaminated Ox, not lean chicken. It's his final year after all.

They eliminated the only other possible threat (Landa) by buying him and making him the next Contador.
 
Re:

mrhender said:
Perhaps he also peaked at a very young age.

I do think he's been doping the most of his career, but I also think he got more careful after his sanction.

Then again, the 2014 season could have been even more crazy without the TDF crash..

Who knows..

Interesting case.
Peaked at a very young age? Lets see now from just a small portion of his palmares after he turned 30.

2012 - wins Veulta and Milano-Torino
2013 - first place in points Tirreno - Adriatico
2014 - first place Torreno-Adriatico; first place Tour of the Basque; wins the Veulta
2015 - wins the Giro

What other current rider in the current peloton has those kind of results after 30?

The only doping test he has failed is the controversial clen case in the 2010 Tour. The Court of Arbitration of Sport and every qualified pharmacologist on earth has said it did not give him a performance advantage in the 2010 tour. Every Contador doubter uses this sanction as an incorrect assumption he is a doper or to call him a doper.

Like all Contador doubters the suggestion he has been doping all his career is fraught with the same problem - no evidence, just the typical Clinic speculation and conjecture without hard facts or reasoned argument. The only thing worse than a bad argument is a lazy argument.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Re: Re:

RobbieCanuck said:
mrhender said:
Perhaps he also peaked at a very young age.

I do think he's been doping the most of his career, but I also think he got more careful after his sanction.

Then again, the 2014 season could have been even more crazy without the TDF crash..

Who knows..

Interesting case.
Peaked at a very young age? Lets see now from just a small portion of his palmares after he turned 30.

2012 - wins Veulta and Milano-Torino
2013 - first place in points Tirreno - Adriatico
2014 - first place Torreno-Adriatico; first place Tour of the Basque; wins the Veulta
2015 - wins the Giro

What other current rider in the current peloton has those kind of results after 30?

The only doping test he has failed is the controversial clen case in the 2010 Tour. The Court of Arbitration of Sport and every qualified pharmacologist on earth has said it did not give him a performance advantage in the 2010 tour. Every Contador doubter uses this sanction as an incorrect assumption he is a doper or to call him a doper.

Like all Contador doubters the suggestion he has been doping all his career is fraught with the same problem - no evidence, just the typical Clinic speculation and conjecture without hard facts or reasoned argument. The only thing worse than a bad argument is a lazy argument.
Another one of the folks who buy into the cycling is clean now?

Contador going full re-tard because it is his last year? No way it will be as all the previous years have been. I hope he can win of da-froomz.

Note : I like Contador over the rest so don't call troll me with the hatter label.
 
Jun 22, 2015
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Re: Re:

RobbieCanuck said:
mrhender said:
Perhaps he also peaked at a very young age.

I do think he's been doping the most of his career, but I also think he got more careful after his sanction.

Then again, the 2014 season could have been even more crazy without the TDF crash..

Who knows..

Interesting case.
Peaked at a very young age? Lets see now from just a small portion of his palmares after he turned 30.

2012 - wins Veulta and Milano-Torino
2013 - first place in points Tirreno - Adriatico
2014 - first place Torreno-Adriatico; first place Tour of the Basque; wins the Veulta
2015 - wins the Giro

What other current rider in the current peloton has those kind of results after 30?

The only doping test he has failed is the controversial clen case in the 2010 Tour. The Court of Arbitration of Sport and every qualified pharmacologist on earth has said it did not give him a performance advantage in the 2010 tour. Every Contador doubter uses this sanction as an incorrect assumption he is a doper or to call him a doper.

Like all Contador doubters the suggestion he has been doping all his career is fraught with the same problem - no evidence, just the typical Clinic speculation and conjecture without hard facts or reasoned argument. The only thing worse than a bad argument is a lazy argument.

But weren't the traces of Clenbuterol in a hint for blood doping?
 
Aug 31, 2012
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Robbie must be really confused they dish out bans for, say, masking agents. They don't enhance performance!
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Re:

SeriousSam said:
Robbie must be really confused they dish out bans for, say, masking agents. They don't enhance performance!
And there's no such thing as a half life.

:rolleyes:
 
del1962 said:
Tonton said:
Bertie will go on a full program, get a pass, and the anti-Sky will root for him to beat Dawg. Although he's on the downhill, he's still the biggest threat to Froome.

BTW, Froome managed his lead. He was never close to losing the TdF. IMO Quintana will Poulidor his way to podiums but never win. Too bad. Nairito may never get this close again and look back at the '15 TdF the way that Poupou looked back at the '64 edition, when he let his opportunity go by on the Puy de Dome.
Think your underestimating Quintana
He's not underestimating Quintana. Quintana just doesn't have the killer instinct to win the Tour at the moment. He may get one eventually, but not until he realises that he's got to be the one who dictates terms.
 
Just thinking of possible explanations for his sub-par performance.
IIRC he returned from Teide 1 week ago. Is it possible he decided to extract a bag or two at altitude, and could he still be feeling the effects of that?
 

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