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Contador - last year - more risk ?

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Re:

SeriousSam said:
The case for Froome is pretty clear. He was the strongest rider at the Tour every year since 2011, only failing to win when he had to ride for Wiggins and when he crashed. If he wins this year, his streak of being the strongest GT rider equals Indurain's (who never crashed or had to ride for someone else).
How was he the strongest GT rider in 2012 and 2014? Hint: he wasn't. So there is no such thing as a "streak".
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
The Hitch said:
Red Rick said:
SeriousSam said:
To resume the discussion from a while ago; with another chance to win the Tour gone (and it didn't look likely he'd win even before the crashes) and Contador's age, it's close to settled now:

His reign as king of the GT racers was remarkably short, with Froome the top rider ever since the Vuelta in 2011.

Though he said he'd continue 2 more years, I think he'll reevaluate that after getting clobbered in yet another Tour.
Lol
I mean, he hasn't quite dominated like Indurain or Armstrong, but Froome quite clearly has been the best gt rider since 2011 and I don't think its close
I agree there's an argument for that, I don't agree that it's not close. Especially if you look at palmares from that period. And I'm not just looking at Contador.

But he's clearly stating that Froome has been the best GT rider every year since 2011, which is laughable.
[/quote]
DId he say "every year". I saw him say "ever since".

I agree that Contador was better in 2011 (maybe Evans and Andy too). Nibali and Contador were better in 14.

But overall since 2011 its Froome 1, Contador and Quintana 2,3 and Nibali 4

Edit: ok he said every year, but since August 2011, its only 2014 that he wasn't, and SS already qualified that it was because of a crash.

I agree with y'all though that its not 100% clear he would have been number 1 that year. AC had a good chance too
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
SeriousSam said:
The case for Froome is pretty clear. He was the strongest rider at the Tour every year since 2011, only failing to win when he had to ride for Wiggins and when he crashed. If he wins this year, his streak of being the strongest GT rider equals Indurain's (who never crashed or had to ride for someone else).
How was he the strongest GT rider in 2012 and 2014? Hint: he wasn't. So there is no such thing as a "streak".
Who do you think was strongest in 2012? Murito? Contador beat him but that wasn't the top form Contador we saw in 2011 or even 2014.

Wiggins beat Froome by 3 but a 3rd of that was a mechanical and Froome was clearly stronger in the mountains despite having to ride into the wind for wiggins
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
SeriousSam said:
It seems that you want to define 'best' as number of GT victories counting all 3 equally, which is pretty clearly not what I'm talking about. I suppose an argument going beyond a count of Vueltas and Giros won't be forthcoming anytime soon.
I know the Tour is everything. Only thing that's better apparently is a 2nd place in the Vuelta, but only in years that Froome gets it.
Horner is easily the best GT rider in 2013, he even won Vuelta while being ~2 minutes faster than Froome on Angliru in 2011, while he was the best GT rider of the year
 
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burning said:
Red Rick said:
SeriousSam said:
It seems that you want to define 'best' as number of GT victories counting all 3 equally, which is pretty clearly not what I'm talking about. I suppose an argument going beyond a count of Vueltas and Giros won't be forthcoming anytime soon.
I know the Tour is everything. Only thing that's better apparently is a 2nd place in the Vuelta, but only in years that Froome gets it.
Horner is easily the best GT rider in 2013, he even won Vuelta while being ~2 minutes faster than Froome on Angliru in 2011, while he was the best GT rider of the year
Horner would lose 4 minutes to 2013 froome in a time trial. And 2013 froome is the same one that posted some ridiculous times on pdb and ventoux. Horner angliru was good but over a minute slower than the record and in the same ball park as a few other attempts
 
Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
burning said:
Red Rick said:
SeriousSam said:
It seems that you want to define 'best' as number of GT victories counting all 3 equally, which is pretty clearly not what I'm talking about. I suppose an argument going beyond a count of Vueltas and Giros won't be forthcoming anytime soon.
I know the Tour is everything. Only thing that's better apparently is a 2nd place in the Vuelta, but only in years that Froome gets it.
Horner is easily the best GT rider in 2013, he even won Vuelta while being ~2 minutes faster than Froome on Angliru in 2011, while he was the best GT rider of the year
Horner would lose 4 minutes to 2013 froome in a time trial. And 2013 froome is the same one that posted some ridiculous times on pdb and ventoux. Horner angliru was good but over a minute slower than the record and in the same ball park as a few other attempts
I was just making fun of serioussam's logic about Froome being the best GT rider in every single year since 2011. Horner would have never made to podium in Tour, I am well aware of that.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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To say Froome has been the best GT rider is untrue.. he might have been the Best TDF rider..

but you said GT .. that would be all the grand tours right.. ?
 
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dolophonic said:
To say Froome has been the best GT rider is untrue.. he might have been the Best TDF rider..

but you said GT .. that would be all the grand tours right.. ?
That would be the concept of a grand tour.- 21 days, mountains, time trials, sprint days. Froome has been the best at the discipline.
 
Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
dolophonic said:
To say Froome has been the best GT rider is untrue.. he might have been the Best TDF rider..

but you said GT .. that would be all the grand tours right.. ?
That would be the concept of a grand tour.- 21 days, mountains, time trials, sprint days. Froome has been the best at the discipline.

This I agree with. Froome has won sheer power alone, not tactics, just power up climbs and in ITTs. Flats he has been relatively good but just staying up the front.

In 2013 he rode one stage in yellow all alone against the entire peloton attacking him.

Contador is certainly more tactically astute but like Ventoux 2013, what tactics can you use against a moto that allows one rider to attack at crazy speed and ride as fast as Armstrong? Nothing.
 
Re: Re:

thehog said:
The Hitch said:
dolophonic said:
To say Froome has been the best GT rider is untrue.. he might have been the Best TDF rider..

but you said GT .. that would be all the grand tours right.. ?
That would be the concept of a grand tour.- 21 days, mountains, time trials, sprint days. Froome has been the best at the discipline.

This I agree with. Froome has won sheer power alone, not tactics, just power up climbs and in ITTs. Flats he has been relatively good but just staying up the front.

In 2013 he rode one stage in yellow all alone against the entire peloton attacking him.

Contador is certainly more tactically astute but like Ventoux 2013, what tactics can you use against a moto that allows one rider to attack at crazy speed and ride as fast as Armstrong? Nothing.
If you are talking about the stage where Porte blew up, only Valverde attacked him once. In the crosswind stage, he didn't even take a turn as he knew that he wouldn't lose too much and he had a huge buffer anyway.
 

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