Contador says he might stick w/ Astana!?

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SpeedWay said:
No need to worry. We've been schooled by the rocket scientist's here that Contador won this years Tour by HIMSELF - i.e. TEAM isn't important. I hardly see why said scientist's are getting their knickers in a bunch about worrying what TEAM he's going to be on. I actually think the competence of AC's advisors is right on par with Contador's Verbier decision and all is as expected at Camp Contador.

Still bitter, huh? Don't worry, the Giants ruined the Patriots perfect season almost 3 years ago and I still can't see enough bad things happen to Eli and Co. I hope they don't score another point. Ever.
 
Mellow Velo said:
You sound just like all those Lance haters you love so much.
Better get a plentyful supply of sour grapes in, come next July.
Or maybe you are just plain grumpy, having just woken up and got out of the wrong side of the bed, after a three year sleep?

Ya really think Lance is gonna 'win it all' in July? Amazing. Like a guy once told me, you can get thinner and richer but ya can't get younger. This has nothing to do with loving or hating any one rider, just the race. Lance has already said he won't 'tune up' at the Giro. The TdCalifornia isn't going to prep him like the Giro would have. BUT no entry $ after Lance complained about the stage during the Giro...'bite the hand' type thing.
 

Polish

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SpeedWay said:
No need to worry. We've been schooled by the rocket scientist's here that Contador won this years Tour by HIMSELF - i.e. TEAM isn't important. I hardly see why said scientist's are getting their knickers in a bunch about worrying what TEAM he's going to be on. I actually think the competence of AC's advisors is right on par with Contador's Verbier decision and all is as expected at Camp Contador.


Nail on the head, speedway, you hit the nail on the head.

And if I may - why don't the Von Brauns and Goddards of the forum argue that the new new Astana is a STRONGER team with Lance and Bruyneel out of the picture?
 
Aug 19, 2009
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SpeedWay said:
No need to worry. We've been schooled by the rocket scientist's here that Contador won this years Tour by HIMSELF - i.e. TEAM isn't important. I hardly see why said scientist's are getting their knickers in a bunch about worrying what TEAM he's going to be on. I actually think the competence of AC's advisors is right on par with Contador's Verbier decision and all is as expected at Camp Contador.

I'm not sure I follow you... What's the issue with Contador on the Verbier climb?
 
Bag_O_Wallet said:
I'm not sure I follow you... What's the issue with Contador on the Verbier climb?
Uuummm, the fact that Contador didn't crash and bring down Schleck, Nibali, Wiggins, Sastre and Evans?:rolleyes:
Typical fanboy logic.
Wasn't the fact that Armstrong got dropped, like a wet trout, but that team leader Contador attacked, instead shoving their hero "guest", up the hill.
 
Aug 19, 2009
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Mellow Velo said:
Uuummm, the fact that Contador didn't crash and bring down Schleck, Nibali, Wiggins, Sastre and Evans?:rolleyes:
Typical fanboy logic.
Wasn't the fact that Armstrong got dropped, like a wet trout, but that team leader Contador attacked, instead shoving their hero "guest", up the hill.

Go back to your rocket science experiments, MV!:D
 
Oct 29, 2009
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I think that attack was certainly ego driven. Lance had proven he is the smarter, more experienced, rider by getting in the lead group when the peloton split in the crosswinds. Contador had to prove he was the strongest rider, which he did. My problem with it was that he showed total disregard for his entire team, but he was in a tough spot, so I don't blame him for establishing himself as the stronger of the two....hell the strongest in the entire peloton, for that matter. His acceleration up the mountian was incredible....record breaking incredible.

I fail to see the correlation in his decision to attack and his personal advisors decision making. He was looking out for his best interest in the GC. Isn't that what his advisors are paid to do? Look-out for his best interest. Perhaps I have missed something. Certianly possible, considering I check in to these forums on the fly while taking small breaks from work. :D
 
ImmaculateKadence said:
I think that attack was certainly ego driven. Lance had proven he is the smarter, more experienced, rider by getting in the lead group when the peloton split in the crosswinds. Contador had to prove he was the strongest rider, which he did. My problem with it was that he showed total disregard for his entire team, but he was in a tough spot, so I don't blame him for establishing himself as the stronger of the two....hell the strongest in the entire peloton, for that matter. His acceleration up the mountian was incredible....record breaking incredible.

I fail to see the correlation in his decision to attack and his personal advisors decision making. He was looking out for his best interest in the GC. Isn't that what his advisors are paid to do? Look-out for his best interest. Perhaps I have missed something. Certianly possible, considering I check in to these forums on the fly while taking small breaks from work. :D

Are you talking about Arcalis or Verbier? Because Verbier there was no team to disregard. The field had been shredded, everyone was on red . . . except AC.

As for Arcalis, well everyone's mileage will vary, but according to AC he was feeling really good that day and took a turn. Lance's and the team's action on Stage 3 were pretty unconscionable in my book . . . seeing how AC was the strongest rider AND had been named by Bruyneel as team leader. Don't begrudge LA making the split, that happens. But sending folks to the front to increase the time gaps, well that was just b-s (IMO).
 
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ImmaculateKadence said:
I think that attack was certainly ego driven. Lance had proven he is the smarter, more experienced, rider by getting in the lead group when the peloton split in the crosswinds.

Armstrong proved that he had better connections. Hincapie tipped off Armstrong that they were going split the field. Instead of sharing this info with his teammates he did what any despite old man would do.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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Publicus said:
Are you talking about Arcalis or Verbier? Because Verbier there was no team to disregard. The field had been shredded, everyone was on red . . . except AC.

As for Arcalis, well everyone's mileage will vary, but according to AC he was feeling really good that day and took a turn. Lance's and the team's action on Stage 3 were pretty unconscionable in my book . . . seeing how AC was the strongest rider AND had been named by Bruyneel as team leader. Don't begrudge LA making the split, that happens. But sending folks to the front to increase the time gaps, well that was just b-s (IMO).

I was talking about Verbier, but it's been several months, so the events of those days are little fuzzy; it's possible I got them confused.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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Race Radio said:
Armstrong proved that he had better connections. Hincapie tipped off Armstrong that they were going split the field. Instead of sharing this info with his teammates he did what any despite old man would do.

I won't dispute that as a possibility.
 
ImmaculateKadence said:
I was talking about Verbier, but it's been several months, so the events of those days are little fuzzy; it's possible I got them confused.

I think you have to be confused. Verbier was not controversial (from AC's point of view) in any way. Arcalis caused folks some consternation because of LA's insinuation that AC was acting against non-existent orders not to attack and he took back all of the 41 seconds that Lance had taken on Stage 3.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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Publicus said:
I think you have to be confused. Verbier was not controversial (from AC's point of view) in any way. Arcalis caused folks some consternation because of LA's insinuation that AC was acting against non-existent orders not to attack and he took back all of the 41 seconds that Lance had taken on Stage 3.

Ok You're right; I did get them confused :eek:
 
Aug 19, 2009
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ImmaculateKadence said:
I think that attack was certainly ego driven. Lance had proven he is the smarter, more experienced, rider by getting in the lead group when the peloton split in the crosswinds. Contador had to prove he was the strongest rider, which he did. My problem with it was that he showed total disregard for his entire team, but he was in a tough spot, so I don't blame him for establishing himself as the stronger of the two....hell the strongest in the entire peloton, for that matter. His acceleration up the mountian was incredible....record breaking incredible.

I fail to see the correlation in his decision to attack and his personal advisors decision making. He was looking out for his best interest in the GC. Isn't that what his advisors are paid to do? Look-out for his best interest. Perhaps I have missed something. Certianly possible, considering I check in to these forums on the fly while taking small breaks from work. :D

I agree that Contador's move on the Verbier was ego driven, and I don't doubt it was meant - primarily - as a huge F-YOU to the ASO for '08, and secondarily as an F-YOU to Armstrong for detracting from his primary objective.

As for disregard for the team, well, it seemed like that kind of behaviour was quite prevalant at Astana in the Tour.
 
Bag_O_Wallet said:
I agree that Contador's move on the Verbier was ego driven, and I don't doubt it was meant - primarily - as a huge F-YOU to the ASO for '08, and secondarily as an F-YOU to Armstrong for detracting from his primary objective.

As for disregard for the team, well, it seemed like that kind of behaviour was quite prevalant at Astana in the Tour.

I think AC was thinking about LA, JB and all of the bull crap he had dealt with up to that point, and frankly putting his stamp of authority on the 2009 TdF. The ASO thing, was, to my mind, a blessing in disguise (otherwise he wouldn't have ridden or won the Giro and the Vuelta). But there was nothing about disregarding the team (I think the original poster was thinking about Arcalis).
 
Mar 12, 2009
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Please LA fans, explain to me, a former LA-fan, how AC's attack on Verbier was Ego driven?

AC wanted to win the Tour. The route wasn't very challenging, so he had to attack on every uphill finish there was.

Is wanting to win the Tour Ego driven these days, unless you are LA?

What a load of BS.

And stop the "winning without a team" BS, use google translation to read AC's interviews to get that story straight, JB and LA have their own agenda, a trap that so many clueless LA fans have fallen into.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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peloton said:
Please LA fans, explain to me, a former LA-fan, how AC's attack on Verbier was Ego driven?

AC wanted to win the Tour. The route wasn't very challenging, so he had to attack on every uphill finish there was.

Is wanting to win the Tour Ego driven these days, unless you are LA?

What a load of BS.

And stop the "winning without a team" BS, use google translation to read AC's interviews to get that story straight, JB and LA have their own agenda, a trap that so many clueless LA fans have fallen into.

I got the Arcalis stage and the Verbier stage confused. The Arcalis attack was ego-driven because Lance had taken 40+ seconds in the crosswinds, and AC just couldn't stand to have Lance ahead of him in the GC (that's how I perceive it). At that point in the race, it was totally unnecessary. The Verbier stage was just straight racing. I have no problem with his move in that stage.

Please don't lump me in the same category you do Lance trolls.
 

flicker

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I don't like how Contador acted during the tour his attack etc. I totally respect him though he is indeed the strongest and a worthy TdF winner.
 
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flicker said:
I don't like how Contador acted during the tour his attack etc. I totally respect him though he is indeed the strongest and a worthy TdF winner.

So an attacking rider should not attack?
Makes sense if you have to nurture a has been, but, really does not.
 
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ImmaculateKadence said:
I got the Arcalis stage and the Verbier stage confused. The Arcalis attack was ego-driven because Lance had taken 40+ seconds in the crosswinds, and AC just couldn't stand to have Lance ahead of him in the GC (that's how I perceive it). At that point in the race, it was totally unnecessary. The Verbier stage was just straight racing. I have no problem with his move in that stage.

Please don't lump me in the same category you do Lance trolls.

No need to lump you in the LA trolls, you give good answers and arguments, thanks for that.

We have to agree to disagree on the Arcalis stage, since the st.3 crosswind stage was clearly against AC's favor, even having his own teammates riding against him.
It was also totally unnecessary, given AC was the strongest rider in his own team.

I do give props for LA getting on the podium, very impressive result.
But I can't stand the way he dissed his own teammate who also wanted to win the Tour, who had the team command until LA pushed his way back.

Had the comeback never happened, I'd still be a big fan of LA. Too bad it did and that opened my eyes.
 

Polish

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snooze alarm

ImmaculateKadence said:
I got the Arcalis stage and the Verbier stage confused.

It is so easy to confuse AC's attacks lol.

No confusing Lance's Attacks - they have NAMES:

The "How do you like THEM Apples?" Attack

The "Look" Attack

The "Gift"

The "Mussette Bag"

The "No-Gifts"

The "Crap, I'm Old" attack
 
ImmaculateKadence said:
I got the Arcalis stage and the Verbier stage confused. The Arcalis attack was ego-driven because Lance had taken 40+ seconds in the crosswinds, and AC just couldn't stand to have Lance ahead of him in the GC (that's how I perceive it). At that point in the race, it was totally unnecessary. The Verbier stage was just straight racing. I have no problem with his move in that stage.

Please don't lump me in the same category you do Lance trolls.

I am certainly not some student of cycle racing. But his attack on Arcalis was brilliant and very very lucky. 1st off, the tours are above all, about how well you can climb. (And if you want to discuss what matters most, then start another thread, please.) That attack had to just be a crushing blow to anyone who thought they had a chance. I ride enough to know that cycling is 90% 'between the ears'.

That had to be a crushing blow. How would you like to spend the next week trying to game plan against that kind of dominance?

Secondly, what was his obligation to his team in that scenario? I do not ask with a tone of indignity. Straight up: why was that offensive? Or do the Lance supporters believe that AC had an obligation to Lance for some reason?
Seriously? You are the number one rider on the team, and a guy hasn't raced in 2 years announces a comeback at 37 or 38 or whatever and you have some OBLIGATION to not attack in the last couple k's of a mtn top finish? Why? It's a race, not a group therapy session. Job 1 is putting someone at the top step of the podium. Mission accomplished.

Luck. The incredible luck. There is NO WAY Ac could have attacked and knowingly been 2 seconds behind Nocentini at the finish. So Astana did not have to defend yellow until after Verbier. Effing spectacular luck if you asked me.

More luck for Astana AND AC at the TTT: 22/100ths of a second keeps FC in yellow, preventing LA from becoming the de facto team leader. And again, Astana, while pace making much of the time, is still not obligated to defend yellow. Mind boggling luck. I wonder how much LA thought about where Astana could have scrambled another 23/100ths of a second (during the TTT) in the ensuing days while FC was in yellow?
 
Aug 19, 2009
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peloton said:
Please LA fans, explain to me, a former LA-fan, how AC's attack on Verbier was Ego driven?

AC wanted to win the Tour. The route wasn't very challenging, so he had to attack on every uphill finish there was.

Is wanting to win the Tour Ego driven these days, unless you are LA?

What a load of BS.

And stop the "winning without a team" BS, use google translation to read AC's interviews to get that story straight, JB and LA have their own agenda, a trap that so many clueless LA fans have fallen into.

Well, I am talking Verbier... and you'd best not be calling me an LA fan boy.... :D I've been impressed by LA in the past, but never a fan. Memories of what he was like between 92 and 96 have always been preventative.

As for Contador... Beyond wanting to win the Tour - which is ego driven, regardless of your name - I think he wanted to send a very loud, and very clear message to a few people.

Frig, Tex did that stuff all the time. I can think of three occasions off the top of my head.... Hautocam in 2000 (to the press, Pantani, and Ullrich) the Alpe d'Huez bluff in 2001 (to Ullrich and Kevin Livingston) and the Alpe d'Huez time trial in the blur after 2001 (to Riis when they locked eyes as he passed Basso team car).

My view on the whole team thing... I'd say it was at best a divided team... and he did gain time in the TTT, so it can't be as bad as no team.
 
ImmaculateKadence said:
I got the Arcalis stage and the Verbier stage confused. The Arcalis attack was ego-driven because Lance had taken 40+ seconds in the crosswinds, and AC just couldn't stand to have Lance ahead of him in the GC (that's how I perceive it). At that point in the race, it was totally unnecessary. The Verbier stage was just straight racing. I have no problem with his move in that stage.

Please don't lump me in the same category you do Lance trolls.

Arcalis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cN4B3XspYg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xGFPXJRdso&feature=related
Verbier:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twNuEVzvJ28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrzHciI6L14&feature=related