Contador's Power Numbers on Mt. Etna

[roundabout]

Yeah, pretty much just looks like a guy cruising down to the bakery on a city bike to pick up some bread:

[/IMG]

your point being

 

[Magnus]

your point being

ergmonkey was probably adressing hog's statement that
"Riis should have least pretended to be trying!"

 

[ergmonkey]

ergmonkey was probably adressing hog's statement that
"Riis should have least pretended to be trying!"

Correct. Thank you, Magnus.

Sorry for the confusion, Roundabout. I try not to quote previous posts if not absolutely necessary when offering a counterpoint because it can sometimes become unnecessarily combative around here.

 

[Benotti69]

Lemond's quotation might be appropriate to plagiarise here;

“(Training) doesn't get easier; you just get faster”



So to apply that to racing with EPO

"Racing on EPO doesn't get easier you just go much much much much faster"

 

[ergmonkey]

Lemond's quotation might be appropriate to plagiarise here;

“(Training) doesn't get easier; you just get faster”



So to apply that to racing with EPO

"Racing on EPO doesn't get easier you just go much much much much faster"

I'm inclined to agree 100%

If anything, you always hear about EPO being most effective for recovering quickly between intense efforts and for recovering from hard days of training and racing. The EPO allowed riders to do intense interval sessions more frequently and to attack more often.

It was definitely cheating, but it definitely wasn't easy. The riders suffered and they did so very, very often.

 

[Angliru]

Uh, the only one who is spinning here is you with your assertion that gaps of 50 seconds or more are not rare.

If you want spin, here it is.

Di Luca gained 43 seconds and had abnormal test readings in the same Giro.

Contador who is dodgy enough as it is had the Mexican Chicken with him in 2007.

Ricco was very much likely to be doping in 2008 even in the Giro.

Cobo* and Sastre put 2 minutes plus on the field going almost from the bottom of legitimate HC climbs with Cobo having Piepoli with him to share the work and Sastre not being really chased (on that climb, riders were really attacking each other, unlike your spin on what happened yesterday)

In 2008 Vuelta the biggest gap was on the Angliru and I certainly didn't see any ramps like that yesterday.

Pellizotti the rider currently banned as you may remember had the biggest margin in 2009 Giro.

We had a thread or two about Contador's Verbier ride.

2010 Andy Schleck who is considered to be a doper pulled out that gap on a HC climb going with 10 or 9 to go.

No sir, nothing peculiar about Contador getting 50 seconds yesterday. Many people who pulled out such gaps haven't tested positive later. Never.

Spin away.

Edit: btw, the official climb profile has 344 meters of elevation gain for the final 7km. 345 for the final 6. That's less than 6%.

...and how many of the riders that you name have the proven record in week long stage races and grand tours that Contador has? Since virtually every rider that you mentioned with the possible exception of Sastre is considered a doper what exactly is your point? They have all proven to be at best a level below or less of Contador on even his less than best days.

 

[Benotti69]

I'm inclined to agree 100%

If anything, you always hear about EPO being most effective for recovering quickly between intense efforts and for recovering from hard days of training and racing. The EPO allowed riders to do intense interval sessions more frequently and to attack more often.

It was definitely cheating, but it definitely wasn't easy. The riders suffered and they did so very, very often.

For sure racing 3 weeks is suffering and to win you must suffer, sometimes more than most.

EPO gave more than recovery.

 

[IzzyStradlin]

The good doctor's take:

http://53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=117

"It took 6 minutes 28 seconds for Alberto Contador to ride between km 6 and km 3 to the finish line, at the average speed of 28.1 km/h.

The VAM = 1821m/h on the average gradient of 6.5% required an average power output of 6.87 w/kg, equal to 426 watts assuming a body weight of 62 kg.

The ascent was affected by strong winds, therefore the expressed power was probably even higher, although it is quite difficult to quantify......"

 

[ergmonkey]

EPO gave more than recovery.

Absolutely. All that I had in mind was the fact that when people talk about EPO they usually talk about increasing oxygen carrying capacity and thus increasing the ability to sustain high-intensity efforts. This is, of course, a massive advantage from EPO.

In addition to this, though, you don't tend to hear quite as much talk about EPO and recovery. But, when you do hear the anecdotes, they can be pretty striking. Guys were doing a lot of interval training to prep for the Ardennes Classics, in particular. A quantity and frequency of suffering that just wouldn't be feasible (or, wouldn't be feasible and productive, at least) without some major recovery benefits.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

I have worked on this sort of calculation with Dr. Allen Lim and I would say that Escabarajo's number's look pretty close to me. Lance was in the 450 watts range when he was in full flight. Contador weighs significantly less which makes something around 420 watts about right.

I'm late to this party, but your claims seem very strange.

Are you really of the opinion that LA produced approximately 6w/kg when in "full flight"?

If I assume that figure was for FT power, it makes slightly more sense. But then why did you compare it with a 20min effort for Contador? If you really did work with Allen Lim, why don't you know not to make that 'apples and oranges' comparison?

You stated a positive opinion on Escarabajo's power estimates, then stated that 420 watts is about right. One interpretation of this is that you are attributing the 420 watts to Escarabajo. Was that your intention?

The figures of 410 and 420 watts are in agreement within uncertainties, but if that is what you meant, why not say so? It seems most odd that someone with legitimate claims to expertise in this area would be so sloppy and imprecise in their communication.

Are you able to shed some light on any of the above?

 

[Le breton]

I have worked on this sort of calculation with Dr. Allen Lim ............

I have worked with meaning what? as equals? working on a published paper together?Or as his grad student when doing your PhD.

Or, did you do work for Allen Lim, like helping him occasionnally as an undergraduate by filling tables for him in your spare time? Maybe w/o understanding what you were doing?

 

[halamala]

The good doctor's take:

http://53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=117

"It took 6 minutes 28 seconds for Alberto Contador to ride between km 6 and km 3 to the finish line, at the average speed of 28.1 km/h.

The VAM = 1821m/h on the average gradient of 6.5% required an average power output of 6.87 w/kg, equal to 426 watts assuming a body weight of 62 kg.

The ascent was affected by strong winds, therefore the expressed power was probably even higher, although it is quite difficult to quantify......"

I have to say it again. These Ferrari's numbers aren't correct. For example, Contador's time can't be 6:28. It's almost certainly ~7:10.

 

[Realist]

Absolutely. All that I had in mind was the fact that when people talk about EPO they usually talk about increasing oxygen carrying capacity and thus increasing the ability to sustain high-intensity efforts. This is, of course, a massive advantage from EPO.

In addition to this, though, you don't tend to hear quite as much talk about EPO and recovery. But, when you do hear the anecdotes, they can be pretty striking. Guys were doing a lot of interval training to prep for the Ardennes Classics, in particular. A quantity and frequency of suffering that just wouldn't be feasible (or, wouldn't be feasible and productive, at least) without some major recovery benefits.

Turns out a lot of people don't understand that the recovery process from both aerobic and anaerobic efforts is mediated largely by aerobic metabolism. Sheesh.

 

[Chef_Vodnik]

I had a good laugh at this. No pun intended, I suppose, but I still had to chuckle a bit at that title.