contador's(riis) request

[Bike Boy]

As I was working through the weekend I didn't have any time to watch cycling unfortunately.
I understand that Contador was trapped behind a second crash inside the last 3 km. Did he soft pedal from this point, confident that he wouldn't risk any additional time gaps from here on? Is the question I would like to get answered.

And also did he get any time compensation?

 

[Walkman]

Yes, of course, but that would have looked stupid. I mean Contador loosing by about 30 sec and Andy by 81 sec but still in the overall standing Andy would only be 6 sec behind when soft-pedal to the finish and Contador would be 30 sec down even if he had beaten Andy by almost a min. And I think it is silly to name someone a fanboy because he doesnt like the rule who gave Andy this massive advantage. There were a lot other riders who suffered too and also those who finished in front of Contador/Andy who really tried to fight for every second on a quite tough finish.

The 3km rule is the real problem, it can not be applied on any finish that isn't totally pancake flat. Didn't Gesink finished like 3.40 down and still got the same time (+6)? I like Gesink but that's insane!

 

[Walkman]

don't bother with those kind of guys... you cant have a proper discussion with them. they only see black or white. unfortunately i can't call him stupid piece of sh+t, otherwise i would do it. but since this is a public forum and i can't text without getting a notification after doing the right thing that bothered "the family", i won't say it, even if he is. ups.

And I am the one who can't hold my own in a discussion? Come on man, stop whining and step it up and tell me how you would like the ASO to act and why.

 

[No_Balls]

I understand that Contador was trapped behind a second crash inside the last 3 km. Did he soft pedal from this point, confident that he wouldn't risk any additional time gaps from here on? Is the question I would like to get answered.

The group with Alberto came up to the 3 k mark when there had been a crash with Andy involved. He then litterary needed to stop since it was a barricade of cyclists blocking the road. He lost over a half second in the process.

Seeing AS alongside him AC started softpedaling unaware of certain rules that later offered Andy back his time losses.

And also did he get any time compensation?

None whatsoever. He did, though, received a lesson from Andy to use his head.

 

[ElChingon]

What a lame request by Saxo Bank (aka Riis/Contador). If they get it I hope Zulle gets his time delay from the 1999 Passage Crash as well, he may not win it but it will look better in the record books and heck why not?

 

[c&cfan]

And I am the one who can't hold my own in a discussion? Come on man, stop whining and step it up and tell me how you would like the ASO to act and why.

you weren't trying to discuss, but now you are. ok.

ASO (or the uci) should have good sense. each case as his own characteristics.
due to what happened they should have put the group that had the road blocked by the second fall at 34secs (or so) and that's it. who wouldn't understand?? it wasn't their fault (you can't blame their position in the group) and they were penalized because of the rules that don't allow exceptions when those exceptions are evident and deserve attention.

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then there's another thing, why they didn't they neutralize the stage?? they had moral obligation. last year the ones that didn't had enough skills to go at 50 should have gone at 30. but they didn't and payed the price. however the peloton waited for andy and frank.

then 70 or more riders kiss the tarmac because of a fan and (the cyclists) without any ounce of fault (it doesn't matter who was there..if it wasn't rider A it would have been rider B) and the peloton does not wait. how's that for hypocrisy?

between those that didn't wait (and was there bocking the road) there's one that since last year is yelling because someone in particular (but they were 5 or 6) didn't wait for him (and he was guilty).

that p*sses me off.

 

[Publicus]

What a lame request by Saxo Bank (aka Riis/Contador). If they get it I hope Zulle gets his time delay from the 1999 Passage Crash as well, he may not win it but it will look better in the record books and heck why not?

Apparently they did not make any such request.

 

[Bike Boy]

The group with Alberto came up to the 3 k mark when there had been a crash with Andy involved. He then litterary needed to stop since it was a barricade of cyclists blocking the road. He lost over a half second in the process.

Seeing AS alongside him AC started softpedaling unaware of certain rules that later offered Andy his time losses.



None whatsoever. He did, though, received a lesson from Andy to use his head.

Thanks for the update. If the rules are rather unclear about situations like this, I can't understand Contador's decision to soft pedal. I mean, why take the chance? this also reflects badly on Riis if he told him to slow down.

Sadly I can't recall any similar situation. It could come in handy for this discussion.

 

[Anonymous]

If it had been Andy Schleck that lost time, the appeal would succeed.

But it wouldnt have got that far. Had it been Andy caught up in the crash then rather than attacking, Cancellara would have made sure the leading group slowed up and waited for him.

 

[Walkman]

you weren't trying to discuss, but now you are. ok.

ASO (or the uci) should have good sense. each case as his own characteristics.
due to what happened they should have put the group that had the road blocked by the second fall at 34secs (or so) and that's it. who wouldn't understand?? it wasn't their fault (you can't blame their position in the group) and they were penalized because of the rules that don't allow exceptions when those exceptions are evident and deserve attention.

------------------------------

then there's another thing, why they didn't they neutralize the stage?? they had moral obligation. last year the ones that didn't had enough skills to go at 50 should have gone at 30. but they didn't and payed the price. however the peloton waited for andy and frank.

then 70 or more riders kiss the tarmac because of a fan and (the cyclists) without any ounce of fault (it doesn't matter who was there..if it wasn't rider A it would have been rider B) and the peloton does not wait. how's that for hypocrisy?

between those that didn't wait (and was there bocking the road) there's one that since last year is yelling because someone in particular (but they were 5 or 6) didn't wait for him (and he was guilty).

that p*sses me off.

I see your point and I'd say it's a valid one. But I stil feel that because of that they were coasting they somewhat have themselves to blame. But this is a real dilemma made up by that stupid 3km rule.

Can anyone confirm Gesink finishing like 3.40 after Gilbert?

 

[No_Balls]

What a lame request by Saxo Bank (aka Riis/Contador). If they get it I hope Zulle gets his time delay from the 1999 Passage Crash as well, he may not win it but it will look better in the record books and heck why not?

Not very comparable. That day on the passage it was a really strong tailwind who splitted Banesto apart while Once benefited of the situation.

Thanks for the update. If the rules are rather unclear about situations like this, I can't understand Contador's decision to soft pedal. I mean, why take the chance? this also reflects badly on Riis if he told him to slow down.

We are all pretty much in agreement of how wrong it was by Alberto soft-pedaling (not that SBS did much either). But i am not all to sure the overall awareness of the rules and thinking at them during the thick of the action. Logical, AC saw a GC-contender and cooled down a bit. Normal reaction.

Riis should have realised the situation and urged on though.

 

[Havetts]

Not very comparable. That day on the passage it was a really strong tailwind who splitted Banesto apart while Once benefited of the situation.

Its compareable, the people behind the crash were blocked and couldnt bike on instantly... So was AC, they lost 6 minutes, AC lost 1 minute 20.

 

[Anonymous]

Got to say, this is also not the first time Alberto has been caught out by being in the wrong place.

I got slated when i suggested that he was tactically inept when he got seperated from armstrong in the echelons. But hes done it again.

He really needs to learn to be at the front in the final 50k

 

[No_Balls]

Its compareable, the people behind the crash were blocked and couldnt bike on instantly... So was AC, they lost 6 minutes, AC lost 1 minute 20.

Yes, you are right. I did forgot about that chrash. I also don´t remember wheter or not Banesto pushed the case further (although that probably could be viewed as in the overall frosty relationship between them).

 

[Sebastian]

The 3km rule is the real problem, it can not be applied on any finish that isn't totally pancake flat. Didn't Gesink finished like 3.40 down and still got the same time (+6)? I like Gesink but that's insane!

Yes, I agree. I think the 3km rule work fine in 99 cases of 100, but not this time. Especially when the last 2 km were tough and there was another crash that slowed down the riders from the first crash. I really dont know what a good solution sould be, but in this case I think the common sense would be to give everyone involved in the crashes the same time. On the other hand I also think those who really fighted until the finish line should be compenseted, but I dont know how (maybe everyone involved in the two crashes should be at 34 (I know thats against the rules)). Anyway, in this case those involved in the second crash get a massive advantage over those in the first crash but also over those who didnt soft-pedal.

 

[Anonymous]

Got to say, this is also not the first time Alberto has been caught out by being in the wrong place.

I got slated when i suggested that he was tactically inept when he got seperated from armstrong in the echelons. But hes done it again.

He really needs to learn to be at the front in the final 50k

True, but when one has an ego the size of Spain then normal rules don't apply. Throw in a sychophantic DS and and you get... Contador 2011.

 

[Sebastian]

But it wouldnt have got that far. Had it been Andy caught up in the crash then rather than attacking, Cancellara would have made sure the leading group slowed up and waited for him.

Exactly. Just as he did last year. Didnt Movistar (Gutierrez) tried to slow down the peloton? And it also slowed down for a while until Popovitsh set up the pace again. By the way that was probably the only time in this years race that RS will attack and that was after a crash...

 

[lagartija]

Got to say, this is also not the first time Alberto has been caught out by being in the wrong place.

I got slated when i suggested that he was tactically inept when he got seperated from armstrong in the echelons. But hes done it again.

He really needs to learn to be at the front in the final 50k

he was ''pretty close to the front'' watch it again riders fell all the way across the road, riders are rolling through and rotating constantly anybody might have been caught 1 rider on the wrong side of a crash like that

 

[lagartija]

True, but when one has an ego the size of Spain then normal rules don't apply. Throw in a sychophantic DS and and you get... Contador 2011.

i can only guess you are a die hard schleck fan led by the nose from the american media, spain is not a huge country maybe just a bit bigger than texas

 

[Captain_Obvious]

True, but when one has an ego the size of Spain then normal rules don't apply. Throw in a sychophantic DS and and you get... Contador 2011.

Hate to come off as a fanboy here but I dont see where the ego part is coming from. The guy seems to come off as a humble man time and time again.

 

[Anonymous]

i can only guess you are a die hard schleck fan led by the nose from the american media, spain is not a huge country maybe just a bit bigger than texas

Nope. If I said Lance had an ego the size of Texas most would get it.

Hey, AC has the rest of the group right where he wants them. Even Riis said it will make the victory that much sweeter.

 

[Irish2009]

The 3k rule was brought in as a measure against a rider having a problem but not having a chance to chase on, i think thats reasonable. I dont see an arguement for Contador being given the time he was behind at the second crash, just like i didnt like Cancellara slowing the peloton to help the Schlecks get back on (what ever happened to the team going back to get the troubled leaders back up to the peloton????). Cycling is ment to be dramatic, lets not sterilise the **** out of it with rules.

 

[Anonymous]

Hate to come off as a fanboy here but I dont see where the ego part is coming from. The guy seems to come off as a humble man time and time again.

Well, I'm not an AC hater.. but I did not appreciate the whole Valverde thing and I have a case of deja vu. Ego (see Lance Armstrong) is testing posi then wanting the rules re-written. I mean, could he not have just come up with a back-dated TUE? It wold have been so much easier...

Hubris, ego, whatever. And if CAS throws his **** out then we will have a real mess, eh? Last years tour, this years Giro. It will be great.

 

[Dedelou]

What a lame request by Saxo Bank (aka Riis/Contador). If they get it I hope Zulle gets his time delay from the 1999 Passage Crash as well, he may not win it but it will look better in the record books and heck why not?

what a lame reference to a situation ( zulle 1999) that has nothing in common with this one. 1999 crash did NOT lead to discrepancies in time allotted to the riders like Saturday because in 1999 riders from one crash were not hindered by riders from a second crash who ended up arriving behind them at the finish but only got 6 seconds time deficit. just because two situations involves crashes doesn't mean you can refer to them to distort the reality of Saturday.

 

[Dedelou]

Yes, you are right. I did forgot about that chrash. I also don´t remember wheter or not Banesto pushed the case further (although that probably could be viewed as in the overall frosty relationship between them).

that crash happened nearly 79 kilometers from the finish.. and the lost of the 6 minutes was NOT the immediate consequence of the crash itself since right after the passage the second group lead by Banesto close the gap to about 30 seconds to the front group . The front group coalition of several teams working together TTT style is what gave Banesto the 6 minutes deficit..
Here is quote published by Andrew at the time : """ In the second group Banesto started to chase immediately. They came within 30 seconds of catching us, but we were in time-trial mode in the first group with about ten guys. It became an 80-kilometer team time trial, trying to increase the gap between the second group and us. We had five ONCE riders, two Casino, two Cofidis, and Christian and I riding full tilt all the way to the finish. We put over six minutes on the guys behind. Lance lost the jersey today to Kirsipu, who won every bonus sprint, but Lance did manage to eliminate some very strong riders for the classement. """"