Contadors TUE's

[slowspoke]

Just wondering and can't find any mention of, what actual level of hct is he allowed? And does any other rider have one? Apart from the Cobra of course!

Thanks,

Slowspoke

 

[Franklin]

Just wondering and can't find any mention of, what actual level of hct is he allowed? And does any other rider have one? Apart from the Cobra of course!

Thanks,

Slowspoke

I remember there have been more TUE's for high Hematocrit, I don't have names at the ready.

 

[L'arriviste]

Contador has a TUE for a 52% haematocrit.

http://elpais.com/diario/2012/01/13/deportes/1326409207_850215.html

 

[slowspoke]

Wow! Thanks. Explains rather a lot. Now I wonder if Andy has one?

 

[Catwhoorg]

I thought with the bio passport the high Hct 'rule' was gone.

Each rider being their own control and the fluctuations being examined.

I also wonder but will never likely find out, how many with a high Hct exemption, have >50% Hct on year round bloodwork.

 

[Cloxxki]

I know a master athlete who has one for like 53%. But he doesn't even want to go there, as due to an actual illness he can get in mortal danger, and has been before. Can't deal with extended altitude stays I believe, gets him gravely ill.
I wonder to which extent these kind of Hct TUE's pose an actual relative advantage over other athletes with a 50% limit, supposing both legally or illegally try and get it close as possible. Same for diabetics allowed to use all the insulin they feel they need (self-administering during races even) to safely make it to a finish line.

 

[straydog]

A TUE is a therapeutic Exemption....it is only applicable to drugs that an athlete may be taking for medicinal purposes....not to having a high haematocrit.

That is is a dispensation.

And the 50% limit still exists. There has never been a ban in place for going over. Just a medical suspension until it falls back to acceptable parameters.

 

[Skibby the bush kangaroo]

The biopassport can still consider someone dodgy if their values are sufficiently far from the population mean even if the values are consistently there. The model assumes a person's mean value of a parameter comes from some distribution of normal values and actual measurements are assumed to fluctuate from that with some level variance. You can be considered dodgy either by having too much variability in measurements or by having values beyond the usual range.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

A TUE is a therapeutic Exemption....it is only applicable to drugs that an athlete may be taking for medicinal purposes....not to having a high haematocrit.

That is is a dispensation.

And the 50% limit still exists. There has never been a ban in place for going over. Just a medical suspension until it falls back to acceptable parameters.

Wrong.

10 char

 

[Turner29]

I know a master athlete who has one for like 53%. But he doesn't even want to go there, as due to an actual illness he can get in mortal danger, and has been before. Can't deal with extended altitude stays I believe, gets him gravely ill.
I wonder to which extent these kind of Hct TUE's pose an actual relative advantage over other athletes with a 50% limit, supposing both legally or illegally try and get it close as possible. Same for diabetics allowed to use all the insulin they feel they need (self-administering during races even) to safely make it to a finish line.

One of the issues with the notion that doping lowers the playing field is that some doping is not as easy as sticking a needle in your arm and waiting for results, in particular such designed to raise oxygen delivery to the muscles.

Hemodynamics is complex. For example, training actually reduces hematocrit, but this is offset by a larger increase in plasma volume. Blood viscosity becomes reduced with hematocrits above 45% and this effect is non-linear.

Thus, merely increasing HCT does not guarantee increased performance.

 

[Cloxxki]

Suppose I was a few years longer, and started "training" with a good (evil) doc early on. I'd get myself into some races, where my obviosul talent (charging) would be appreciated. I get myself some results, and the blood tests follow. Wow, this guy has a 53% Hct, pretty consistently! "Really? I didn't know, just noticed others were slower usually". So I get the dispensation. Happy career. Just need to keep boosting and not slack off in the off season with (un)expected bio passport tests waiting around every corner.
Who besides my doctor will even know that I have a natural Hct of 39%? I never was tested with such values ever, never under 50%. And I get SO faint when I start in the mountains too long, it just doesn't seem to work for me, so I don't. I can win a few summit finishes back to back, but that's stretching my luck.

Or I could move to Boulder or Kenya and just never get tested, because my country's ADA doesn't care, and my sports federation can't afford it. or the other wat around.

 

[straydog]

Wrong.

10 char

Sorry buddy unless you can provide a link to where the 2 week suspension on "health grounds" has been chucked out by the UCI then I am going to have to suggest it is you who are wrong.

If a rider has a dispensation, such as Ricco did, that is different, but if they don't they get a two week "break", and further tests at the end of that period.

 

[Magnus]

I believe Cunego as well has a dispensation. Don't know the level though.

 

[Nilsson]

Suppose I was a few years longer, and started "training" with a good (evil) doc early on. I'd get myself into some races, where my obviosul talent (charging) would be appreciated. I get myself some results, and the blood tests follow. Wow, this guy has a 53% Hct, pretty consistently! "Really? I didn't know, just noticed others were slower usually". So I get the dispensation. Happy career. Just need to keep boosting and not slack off in the off season with (un)expected bio passport tests waiting around every corner.
Who besides my doctor will even know that I have a natural Hct of 39%? I never was tested with such values ever, never under 50%. And I get SO faint when I start in the mountains too long, it just doesn't seem to work for me, so I don't. I can win a few summit finishes back to back, but that's stretching my luck.

Or I could move to Boulder or Kenya and just never get tested, because my country's ADA doesn't care, and my sports federation can't afford it. or the other wat around.

You wouldn't pull it off to go from 39 to 53, and stay there, without your retics going through the roof and being shaky with an OFF-score that gives you a two year vacation - guaranteed...

 

[131313]

Contador has a TUE (or multiple TUE's) for anticonvulsant meds and asthma meds. That's why to this day I don't believe he intentionally ingested clenbuterol--there are products which he can "legally" take which would offer the same benefit(s). There are a ton of anticonvulsants which would cover the weight loss benefits of clen, without the costs.

Problem is, it's difficult to find the source of the contamination when it probably happened months before the actual drug test...which I think is probably the most likely scenario. Oops!

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Sorry buddy unless you can provide a link to where the 2 week suspension on "health grounds" has been chucked out by the UCI then I am going to have to suggest it is you who are wrong.

If a rider has a dispensation, such as Ricco did, that is different, but if they don't they get a two week "break", and further tests at the end of that period.

Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters
@festinagirl 50% rule no longer exists. Broader profile is used instead.

I'd assume he knows.

 

[Cloxxki]

You wouldn't pull it off to go from 39 to 53, and stay there, without your retics going through the roof and being shaky with an OFF-score that gives you a two year vacation - guaranteed...

According to my lawyer and a very keen (well-paid) labrat, I am just genetically different that way. I am a freak of nature, you see. regular rules don't apply to me. her, I'll assist you set up fair rules just for me to obey.

 

[VeloGirl]

Suppose I was a few years longer, and started "training" with a good (evil) doc early on. I'd get myself into some races, where my obviosul talent (charging) would be appreciated. I get myself some results, and the blood tests follow. Wow, this guy has a 53% Hct, pretty consistently! "Really? I didn't know, just noticed others were slower usually". So I get the dispensation. Happy career. Just need to keep boosting and not slack off in the off season with (un)expected bio passport tests waiting around every corner.
Who besides my doctor will even know that I have a natural Hct of 39%? I never was tested with such values ever, never under 50%. And I get SO faint when I start in the mountains too long, it just doesn't seem to work for me, so I don't. I can win a few summit finishes back to back, but that's stretching my luck.

Or I could move to Boulder or Kenya and just never get tested, because my country's ADA doesn't care, and my sports federation can't afford it. or the other wat around.

A baseline hematocrit level was established for Contador, though. He didn't just get one bloodtest and say "see, that's my natural level"

"Because Contador had previously applied to the UCI for an exemption for high haematocrit, during 2006 he had spent several days at the Lausanne antidoping laboratory who collected some very carefully controlled blood tests. Those data were obviously considered to be reliable - Contador had been granted an exemption based on the validity of those data thus it would be very difficult for him to turn around and suggest those data could not be relied upon."

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2012/behind-scenes-contador-cas-hearing-michael-ashenden

 

[L'arriviste]

A TUE is a therapeutic Exemption....it is only applicable to drugs that an athlete may be taking for medicinal purposes....not to having a high haematocrit.

That is is a dispensation.

And the 50% limit still exists. There has never been a ban in place for going over. Just a medical suspension until it falls back to acceptable parameters.

You're right. I used the phrase "TUE" sloppily as a catch-all. Sorry about that.

 

[Catwhoorg]

A baseline hematocrit level was established for Contador, though. He didn't just get one bloodtest and say "see, that's my natural level"

"Because Contador had previously applied to the UCI for an exemption for high haematocrit, during 2006 he had spent several days at the Lausanne antidoping laboratory who collected some very carefully controlled blood tests. Those data were obviously considered to be reliable - Contador had been granted an exemption based on the validity of those data thus it would be very difficult for him to turn around and suggest those data could not be relied upon."

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2012/behind-scenes-contador-cas-hearing-michael-ashenden

The scientist in me would suggest it takes longer than several days to get a good baseline for Hct.

Several weeks or months are required.

For example, a packed blood bag before arrival, and that high level would be maintained by the body for longer than the visit.