Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

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To be honest I don't really get the vaccination situation in Germany. I read comments online and numbers that seem to indicate that there are not enough people willing to get vaccinated, but from my experiences in my personal environment there's still rather a shortage of vaccines and appointments. Seems to differ heavily locally.
Also there now seems to be a gigantic gap of almost 20% between Bremen and Saxony, I don't know how much of that depends on people willing to get vaccinated, organisation or reported numbers (they aren't always up to date).
Right now I'm not sure whether to get my son vaccinated, yet. It's not especially recommended and it's not so easy to get an appointment, but I guess if I would fight for it I could get him appointments somewhere. Wonder if that's worth it or if we'll just wait until it's easy to get them, after all he's not really at risk, could just be that it makes some things easier.

Could the issue be in which vaccine is being offered? I have friends in Spain who will get the Pfizer or Moderna as soon as it's offered to them. They won't get the AstraZeneca one no matter what. Some might be willing to get J&J. Could that be an issue in Germany as well?
 
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In a complete about-face, Sean Hannity/Foxnews "personality" actually made a sincere on-air recommendation that people get vaccinated. No one knows why but his show is influential to many that may harbor anti-vax prejudices; some reinforced by many of his prior statements on his show.
That on the same news cycle as Senator of Kentucky/Rand Paul attempting to accuse Dr. Fauci of lying about the National Institute of Health funding research in Wuhan; Paul's favorite scapegoat for all that ails 'Merica. While time may tell of the virus origins, Senator Paul has already been afflicted with Covid and still refuses to vaccinate. He also is a doctor; but clearly not a virologist.
 
In a complete about-face, Sean Hannity/Foxnews "personality" actually made a sincere on-air recommendation that people get vaccinated. No one knows why but his show is influential to many that may harbor anti-vax prejudices; some reinforced by many of his prior statements on his show.
That on the same news cycle as Senator of Kentucky/Rand Paul attempting to accuse Dr. Fauci of lying about the National Institute of Health funding research in Wuhan; Paul's favorite scapegoat for all that ails 'Merica. While time may tell of the virus origins, Senator Paul has already been afflicted with Covid and still refuses to vaccinate. He also is a doctor; but clearly not a virologist.
Rand is a not practicing eye doc, certified by...wait for it...Rand Paul. Most of us on here understand more about SARS-CoV-2 than he does.
 
Reactions: Koronin
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In a complete about-face, Sean Hannity/Foxnews "personality" actually made a sincere on-air recommendation that people get vaccinated. No one knows why but his show is influential to many that may harbor anti-vax prejudices; some reinforced by many of his prior statements on his show.
That on the same news cycle as Senator of Kentucky/Rand Paul attempting to accuse Dr. Fauci of lying about the National Institute of Health funding research in Wuhan; Paul's favorite scapegoat for all that ails 'Merica. While time may tell of the virus origins, Senator Paul has already been afflicted with Covid and still refuses to vaccinate. He also is a doctor; but clearly not a virologist.
Remember when the VP Harris said she was skeptical of the vax back when it was in the development during warp speed? She is not a doctor and clearly not a virologist. How much damage did she and others do back then that exist today? Sad behavior.
Then there is the super spreaders that came up to the Nations Capitol to spread the virus in the white house and other locations. Were they vaxed?
Everyone should get the vax as long as they do not have health issues that prevent it. Also why not speak out about the issue places like the USA has with obesity killing people daily? It is a health issue and it effects everyone for overall health care availability.
 
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Rand is a not practicing eye doc, certified by...wait for it...Rand Paul. Most of us on here understand more about SARS-CoV-2 than he does.
So true but will we find eventually that funding from the USA to that lab is directly responsible for what we are dealing with today?
If you have the antibodies some say getting the vax is worthless? I had the virus and have been vaccinated.

Reading where someone here has gotten more than one vax? Why not get them all? That seems counterproductive to me.
 
To be honest I don't really get the vaccination situation in Germany. I read comments online and numbers that seem to indicate that there are not enough people willing to get vaccinated, but from my experiences in my personal environment there's still rather a shortage of vaccines and appointments. Seems to differ heavily locally.
Also there now seems to be a gigantic gap of almost 20% between Bremen and Saxony, I don't know how much of that depends on people willing to get vaccinated, organisation or reported numbers (they aren't always up to date).
Right now I'm not sure whether to get my son vaccinated, yet. It's not especially recommended and it's not so easy to get an appointment, but I guess if I would fight for it I could get him appointments somewhere. Wonder if that's worth it or if we'll just wait until it's easy to get them, after all he's not really at risk, could just be that it makes some things easier.
Isn't it to be expected that there is a significant divide between the former West Germany and East Germany? Afaik, the social trust levels are quite different (~10 pp).
 
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So true but will we find eventually that funding from the USA to that lab is directly responsible for what we are dealing with today?
Highly unlikely. Fauci is not without fault in this ordeal, but the whole 'NIH funded the creation of COVID' line of argument is right up there with 'vaccines contain 5g nanobots' IMO.

Remember when I was warning about Arkansas. All this was so very predictable. Now that delta is about 80% of the sequenced strains in the US, we are moving into a perilous time in the pandemic. Have we vaccinated enough to create a firewall?

Arkansas leads the country in new cases per capita, according to figures compiled by Johns Hopkins University researchers. The state also has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country, with only 35% of the population fully vaccinated.
 
Reactions: jmdirt
So true but will we find eventually that funding from the USA to that lab is directly responsible for what we are dealing with today?
If you have the antibodies some say getting the vax is worthless? I had the virus and have been vaccinated.

Reading where someone here has gotten more than one vax? Why not get them all? That seems counterproductive to me.
We could find that what we are dealing with came from a lab. Tying it directly to USA funding, approved by Rand and Co., may be a different story. EDIT: More evidence for it not starting at the lab, but we'll see.

Who are the 'some' saying that infection +vaccine is worthless? I've seen three different studies that all point to the vax strengthening/increasing protection after infection.
 
Remember when the VP Harris said she was skeptical of the vax back when it was in the development during warp speed? She is not a doctor and clearly not a virologist. How much damage did she and others do back then that exist today? Sad behavior.
Then there is the super spreaders that came up to the Nations Capitol to spread the virus in the white house and other locations. Were they vaxed?
Everyone should get the vax as long as they do not have health issues that prevent it. Also why not speak out about the issue places like the USA has with obesity killing people daily? It is a health issue and it effects everyone for overall health care availability.
I'll have to go back and find Harris' comments, but if I remember correctly her skepticism was about dt not about the vaccine. Plus, that was September 2020 right? Everyone knew that dt wanted the vaccine to help his chances in November. She got vaccinated around xmas 2020, actions speak louder than words, and encouraged all of us to do the same as soon as we could.

EDIT:
Harris quote:
"I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump and it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he's talking about,".... "I will not take his word for it." ..."Yes. I trust Dr. Fauci," I would trust the word of public health experts and scientists, but not Donald Trump." (September 5 2020).

EDIT:
From the VP debate in Oct:
“If Dr. [Anthony] Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely,” Harris said. “But if Donald Trump tells us to take it, I’m not taking it.”
 
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"An Israeli study published in April shows people who got the natural infection have similar --- and by some metrics, slightly higher --- immune protection than those who got the vaccine. Other studies suggest immunity via natural infection is long-lasting, and reinfections are uncommon."

"The new research is quelling earlier concerns about the likelihood of COVID reinfections. It also suggests that people who refuse vaccines don't necessarily obstruct efforts to achieve herd immunity."
 
COVID fully vaccinated "breakthrough" cases in Illinois:

Important detail about that headline.

According to data updated Wednesday by the Illinois Department of Public Health, 151 people in Illinois have died due to COVID-19 or complications after being fully vaccinated. That figure equates to 2.2% of COVID-19 deaths in the state since Jan. 1, officials said.
 
Remember when the VP Harris said she was skeptical of the vax back when it was in the development during warp speed? She is not a doctor and clearly not a virologist. How much damage did she and others do back then that exist today? Sad behavior.
Then there is the super spreaders that came up to the Nations Capitol to spread the virus in the white house and other locations. Were they vaxed?
Everyone should get the vax as long as they do not have health issues that prevent it. Also why not speak out about the issue places like the USA has with obesity killing people daily? It is a health issue and it effects everyone for overall health care availability.
I agree. If the news had daily counts of how many people died due to obesity maybe it would wake a few people up. A big difference though is that obesity isn't communicable so my obese colleague isn't going to give it to me. Heart disease and cancer are leading causes of death and while some are preventable, many are not. While there aren't daily case updates, a lot of attention is given to these causes of death. Again though, they aren't communicable.
 
COVID fully vaccinated "breakthrough" cases in Illinois:

REMINDER: A vaccine is not a magic forcefield. A vaccine gives the immune system a tool to help it fight disease.

Vaccinated or not when we are exposed to a pathogen our immune system determines if we don't have symptoms or if we die, or something in between.
 

"An Israeli study published in April shows people who got the natural infection have similar --- and by some metrics, slightly higher --- immune protection than those who got the vaccine. Other studies suggest immunity via natural infection is long-lasting, and reinfections are uncommon."

"The new research is quelling earlier concerns about the likelihood of COVID reinfections. It also suggests that people who refuse vaccines don't necessarily obstruct efforts to achieve herd immunity."
That's good news because that means more people with some protection.

Also from the article (and supported by studies not in the article):
"Amesh Adalja, a senior scholar at Johns Hopkins University Center for Health Security, says that in South Africa, people infected with the original strain of the virus were more likely to be infected with the South African variant than people who were vaccinated against it. This shows the vaccine-induced antibodies and T-cells were better than the immunity induced through natural infection, Adalja told Sinclair.

“We recommend that people who have had COVID-19 still get vaccinated because they will have that immunity that they’ve already developed be made more robust, last longer, and be more durable against certain problematic variants,” he said.
 
So true but will we find eventually that funding from the USA to that lab is directly responsible for what we are dealing with today?
If you have the antibodies some say getting the vax is worthless? I had the virus and have been vaccinated.

Reading where someone here has gotten more than one vax? Why not get them all? That seems counterproductive to me.
You keep saying "some people" and "will we find eventually..." Both statements have no backup. The reality is this is like a flu that mutates. You can have prior versions and the antibodies may provide some protection. Vaccines are identified by scientists as effective in diminishing the impact of a mutation but doesn't represent an impenetrable shield. The group of Dem congress folks that: a)were all vaccinated b)flew on a private aircraft where masks weren't required...were exposed to the Delta variant and 5 of the 50 (+-) tested positive. That suggests that you may need to mask up in public again as the variant becomes more widespread.
As for unhealthy and elderly folks being more vulnerable; my grandkids have known that for a year and they are more disciplined about C19 prevention practices than most adults.
Oh: Mitch McConnell came down from his Tower of Sciencesilence and urged all unvaxxed Americans to get the vaccine. Even the diehard Red State naysayers that claim they probably had it and they are more manly because they won't take it. Or that Jesus told them through their pastor that it was evil. Of all the information they do believe it is that it was a "weaponized" Wuhan lab created virus. Rand Paul would like to suggest Fauci paid for it to reduce Fauci's credibility. This from a "doctor" that wouldn't take the vaccine, caught Covid and still thinks it is of no value. Rand should go into a small room with Sean and Mitch. And not come out until he understands how dangerous his stupidity can be.
 
Could the issue be in which vaccine is being offered? I have friends in Spain who will get the Pfizer or Moderna as soon as it's offered to them. They won't get the AstraZeneca one no matter what. Some might be willing to get J&J. Could that be an issue in Germany as well?
I don't know for sure but I think that's not an important factor anymore, because we now have mostly Biontech/Pfizer and Moderna, AstraZeneca did not get ordered anymore I think, so there should only be rests of it left. (In spring that was an important factor in people's decision, though, but we didn't have enough vaccines anyway then, so they would always find someone willing to take it.)
 
Reactions: Koronin and jmdirt
Isn't it to be expected that there is a significant divide between the former West Germany and East Germany? Afaik, the social trust levels are quite different (~10 pp).
yeah, it probably plays a part. Some of the eastern German states initially also wanted to order Sputnik, as many older people got most their vaccines from the former Soviet Union, and apparently still have more trust in Russian medicine.

Additionally, it's also the part of Germany where the right wing parties get their most votes, and those people tend to be more opposed to vaccination, and also restrictions related to the pandemic.
 
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Reactions: jmdirt
yeah, it probably plays a part. Some of the eastern German states initially also wanted to order Sputnik, as many older people got most their vaccines from the former Soviet Union, and apparently still have more trust in Russian medicine.

Additionally, it's also the part of Germany where the right wing parties get their most votes, and those people tend to be more opposed to vaccination, and also restrictions related to the pandemic.
Sounds like some national political problems could be mutually resolved by having a population trade between the US and Germany. Except the waaaay Right in the US only thinks that they'd like to be more like Germans. They actually don't like anyone that's "not from around here."
 
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Highly unlikely. Fauci is not without fault in this ordeal, but the whole 'NIH funded the creation of COVID' line of argument is right up there with 'vaccines contain 5g nanobots' IMO.

Remember when I was warning about Arkansas. All this was so very predictable. Now that delta is about 80% of the sequenced strains in the US, we are moving into a perilous time in the pandemic. Have we vaccinated enough to create a firewall?



According to the cdc 90% of seniors in the USA have had the vax. The other 10 % have likely had the virus and have antibodies.
Arkansas are at 1,000 case avg for 7 days that is half what it was for 2 or 3 months this past winter.
The pandemic will not last forever. If the FDA would issue full approval instead of emergency use that would help.

Time will tell on the origins of the virus. Everything that was stated as fact from the begining has changed. Simple things like mask wearing has changed. Just relax and stop trying to defend your opinion and not make up hyperbolic statements like nanobots.
 
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You keep saying "some people" and "will we find eventually..." Both statements have no backup. The reality is this is like a flu that mutates. You can have prior versions and the antibodies may provide some protection. Vaccines are identified by scientists as effective in diminishing the impact of a mutation but doesn't represent an impenetrable shield. The group of Dem congress folks that: a)were all vaccinated b)flew on a private aircraft where masks weren't required...were exposed to the Delta variant and 5 of the 50 (+-) tested positive. That suggests that you may need to mask up in public again as the variant becomes more widespread.
As for unhealthy and elderly folks being more vulnerable; my grandkids have known that for a year and they are more disciplined about C19 prevention practices than most adults.
Oh: Mitch McConnell came down from his Tower of Sciencesilence and urged all unvaxxed Americans to get the vaccine. Even the diehard Red State naysayers that claim they probably had it and they are more manly because they won't take it. Or that Jesus told them through their pastor that it was evil. Of all the information they do believe it is that it was a "weaponized" Wuhan lab created virus. Rand Paul would like to suggest Fauci paid for it to reduce Fauci's credibility. This from a "doctor" that wouldn't take the vaccine, caught Covid and still thinks it is of no value. Rand should go into a small room with Sean and Mitch. And not come out until he understands how dangerous his stupidity can be.
Stop trying to use politics and feel free to allow someone to question so called facts.
Your trying to worry about these politicians and letting them get under your skin in my opinion. Rand and Fauci are playing semantics.
Are politics allowed here?
 
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I agree. If the news had daily counts of how many people died due to obesity maybe it would wake a few people up. A big difference though is that obesity isn't communicable so my obese colleague isn't going to give it to me. Heart disease and cancer are leading causes of death and while some are preventable, many are not. While there aren't daily case updates, a lot of attention is given to these causes of death. Again though, they aren't communicable.
True but besides the vaccine the #1 thing someone can do to help reduce the effects of covid is to get in shape - aka exercise. Not one of the experts call for that. Not even the message board experts in this thread. Just my opinion but its so obvious.
The flu kills untold numbers every year. I know persons who have died from it. Yet I don't question if they got the flu shot or not. I get it every year. I also got the shingrex (shingles) vax's but I know people who have not. I don't get uptight about it but rather consult with my doctor and make my own decisions.
 
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Important detail about that headline.

According to data updated Wednesday by the Illinois Department of Public Health, 151 people in Illinois have died due to COVID-19 or complications after being fully vaccinated. That figure equates to 2.2% of COVID-19 deaths in the state since Jan. 1, officials said.
I mean if we are keeping count what is the number of 12 and under deaths from covid? 300 or less? And that number is not fully verified by the cdc. But that won't stop the panic will it?
 
As for kids (I don't know the age, but I assume here it's 12-15), BlueRoads, while I think it's absolutely fine to wait and see (especially while others still wait to get vaccinated), with Delta it seems to me likely that it will turn endemic and that in turn changes the calculation, as you'd expect (especially in an age group with fewer vaccinated) to be exposed sooner or later to the virus, more so after the restrictions have gone. Without knowing the situation in Germany though (and more locally), I think we will get a better idea of the exit-scenario in the coming few months.
 

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