Coronavirus: How dangerous a threat?

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Already done, the policy outlines risks for the un-vaccinated and the vaccinated, incentives have been offered, and as is the case with all policies, acceptance is a condition of employment. Interesting note on the insurance, in talking with our carrier they're worried about lawsuits from both sides of the argument, vax vs. non and on both the medical liability and employment fronts. For us, personal feelings about it aside, a mandate would cause the loss of skilled employees, and with the path we've chosen, we haven't lost anyone over our handling of the Covid mess. Since we're under 100 it's a moot point, but in speaking with our attorney and our carrier, the feeling is that between the enforcement problems and the court challenges it will be a huge clusterfuck if companies choose to fight it. Not to make this a political post, the fact that Congress and their staff are exempt from the Federal mandate, and the fact that undocumented immigrants are not required to be vaccinated may come back to haunt the mandate effort. It will definitely be interesting to see it all play out.
Your thoroughness is super thoughtful and sounds like an ethical and practical way forward. IMO the liability issues will play out in the decade to come as precedents emerge that pay an attorney to troll them.
The part that will no doubt enrage both sides in the future: Qualification for Medicare disability for people who knowingly and willingly avoided taking preventative measures, mostly as a political gesture. Should they be eligible for long term income because they can't work? It's not much different than the individuals I've seen in the construction industry that care little about their health and look for ways to game the system for a leisure paycheck X a million people.
 
When the morbidly obese man riding the mobility scooter with a basket full of little debbies and pork rinds says that the unvaccinated, mask-less shoppers are putting his life in danger, I have zero sympathy. I also have zero sympathy for the pickers above. They've all made their choices. As to mandates, while I am vaccinated, and encourage my employees to get vaccinated, I would not enforce government mandates if they applied to us. I am pro choice when it comes to the reproductive rights of women, and I am pro choice when it comes to vaccines. How many points do I lose?
first..you gain points for attitude, intention and flexibility. Your leadership is the example,your actions and words are a far greater positive influence on the outcome we both desire. And friends,family,co workers and community are part of a long term,so heavy handed enforcement of a government mandate you don't feel strongly about will likely be disastrous short and long term..
As far as my opinion..I talk a big game,but I know others on the other side have passion and reasoning for their views..I am certainly willing to listen and make compromises that again,get us all towards the finish line of normal..together and paramount..alive..
We can't let the virus get us going in a million directions..how this political division in a medical crisis was thrust upon us is clear..unfortunate..unforgettable but clear, from the words and actions of our leadership,who could not keep their eyes on the prize..instead looked for blame,deflection,denial..and look at our dead and suffering and imagine what cooperation,compassion,resolve would have looked like..
 
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Already done, the policy outlines risks for the un-vaccinated and the vaccinated, incentives have been offered, and as is the case with all policies, acceptance is a condition of employment. Interesting note on the insurance, in talking with our carrier they're worried about lawsuits from both sides of the argument, vax vs. non and on both the medical liability and employment fronts. For us, personal feelings about it aside, a mandate would cause the loss of skilled employees, and with the path we've chosen, we haven't lost anyone over our handling of the Covid mess. Since we're under 100 it's a moot point, but in speaking with our attorney and our carrier, the feeling is that between the enforcement problems and the court challenges it will be a huge clusterfuck if companies choose to fight it. Not to make this a political post, the fact that Congress and their staff are exempt from the Federal mandate, and the fact that undocumented immigrants are not required to be vaccinated may come back to haunt the mandate effort. It will definitely be interesting to see it all play out.
Some are upset with your position and can't find a way to go at you without breaking the forum rules. :D
I think your choice for your company sounds resonable. Thanks for sharing and not allowing people to scare you away with the insurance scam.
 
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Do as I say not as I do:


Winner of the stupid award. Have you seen that masks are required to run a flipping Marathon in San Fran? Something like 6.1 miles of it or some nonsense. Talk about liabilities. San Fran the marathon for the ignerrrt and stupid? I am expecting to see the Mayor running it. :rolleyes:
 
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And then there is this enterprising Influencer and congressional wannabe:

Far-right activist gets COVID-19 after criticizing vaccine
Virginia Aabram 22 hrs ago


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-ally-mike-collins-says-time-for-civility-is-over-ahead-of-j6-rally-speech/ar-AAOAhVy

Far-right activist, journalist, and former congressional candidate Laura Loomer said that she contracted COVID-19 after advocating against the virus’s vaccine.

© Provided by Washington Examiner
Loomer announced on Telegram and Gettr on Thursday that she took a COVID-19 test after experiencing fever, nausea, and body aches "that made my whole body feel like I got hit by a bus."


"Just pray for me please. Can’t even begin to explain how brutal the body aches and nausea that come with covid are. I am in so much pain. This is honestly the worst part about it," she wrote.

THE POLITICS OF COVID: SAVING LIVES OR GATHERING VOTES?

Loomer said that she would begin a treatment regimen involving azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine, adding that she had also tried to get ivermectin but was unable to get a prescription. Public health officials have criticized all three of those treatments as ineffective or unapproved. Loomer said she hoped her diagnosis "raises awareness about how COVID vaccines do not work and how Regeneron, HCQ, Azithromyacin, ZINC, Vitamin D, Vitamin C, NAC, Quercitin Dihydrate, and Ivermectin do work."

In December, Loomer, who is unvaccinated and has called the inoculations "unsafe and ineffective," wrote on Parler that she hoped she could "get COVID just so I can prove to people I've had bouts of food poisoning that are more serious and life threatening than a hyped up virus. Have you ever eaten bad fajitas? That will kill you faster than COVID."

On Thursday, when she went to receive a monoclonal antibody treatment designed to provide the immune system with lab-produced proteins that can trigger a response to the coronavirus, there were people at the clinic who were vaccinated but got the virus anyway, she said.

"Turns out if you get the COVID vaccine and you get COVID after taking the vaccine, your symptoms are actually worse than if you don't take it," she wrote. "In other words, the COVID vaccine does not work, and that's why I'm never going to take it."
 
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I guess that there could be some morbid,semi fatalistic ,I told you so satisfaction when an outspoken opponent falls..but it's just a story or 50 stories,when the real numbers are over 600,000+ yes their stories,their families are important but dancing on graves or rubbing a dead person's nose in it doesn't help..

 
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I guess that there could be some morbid,semi fatalistic ,I told you so satisfaction when an outspoken opponent falls..but it's just a story or 50 stories,when the real numbers are over 600,000+ yes their stories,their families are important but dancing on graves or rubbing a dead person's nose in it doesn't help..

Keep on trucking! Don't get too happy about it.
 
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And then there is this enterprising Influencer and congressional wannabe:

Far-right activist gets COVID-19 after criticizing vaccine
Virginia Aabram 22 hrs ago


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-ally-mike-collins-says-time-for-civility-is-over-ahead-of-j6-rally-speech/ar-AAOAhVy

Far-right activist, journalist, and former congressional candidate Laura Loomer said that she contracted COVID-19 after advocating against the virus’s vaccine.

© Provided by Washington Examiner
Loomer announced on Telegram and Gettr on Thursday that she took a COVID-19 test after experiencing fever, nausea, and body aches "that made my whole body feel like I got hit by a bus."


"Just pray for me please. Can’t even begin to explain how brutal the body aches and nausea that come with covid are. I am in so much pain. This is honestly the worst part about it," she wrote.

THE POLITICS OF COVID: SAVING LIVES OR GATHERING VOTES?

Loomer said that she would begin a treatment regimen involving azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine, adding that she had also tried to get ivermectin but was unable to get a prescription. Public health officials have criticized all three of those treatments as ineffective or unapproved. Loomer said she hoped her diagnosis "raises awareness about how COVID vaccines do not work and how Regeneron, HCQ, Azithromyacin, ZINC, Vitamin D, Vitamin C, NAC, Quercitin Dihydrate, and Ivermectin do work."

In December, Loomer, who is unvaccinated and has called the inoculations "unsafe and ineffective," wrote on Parler that she hoped she could "get COVID just so I can prove to people I've had bouts of food poisoning that are more serious and life threatening than a hyped up virus. Have you ever eaten bad fajitas? That will kill you faster than COVID."

On Thursday, when she went to receive a monoclonal antibody treatment designed to provide the immune system with lab-produced proteins that can trigger a response to the coronavirus, there were people at the clinic who were vaccinated but got the virus anyway, she said.

"Turns out if you get the COVID vaccine and you get COVID after taking the vaccine, your symptoms are actually worse than if you don't take it," she wrote. "In other words, the COVID vaccine does not work, and that's why I'm never going to take it."
Check this quote out. You went with politics so I replied.

"Careful and public scrutiny of the evolving data will be needed to assure that decisions about boosting are informed by reliable science more than by politics." They FDA smacked the admin around on that one.

If a booster is approved I will take it. But I don't trust the politicians involved. Just like a few who say they are vaxed but need protection for being vaxed. It will never end for those types. The rest of their adult lives will be spent with a mask on because fauci said so.
 
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Why are the government rationing regen monoclonal antibody treatments. Are they just punishing states or is there a real reason to do this? Looks and feels political.

"It's not a silver bullet. It's much, much, much more important to be vaccinated. But, in case you're not vaccinated, or even if you have been vaccinated and have a breakthrough infection, earlier in the course of the disease, monoclonal antibodies can help reduce the viral load and reduce the risk of hospitalization up to 70%," said Dr. Felipe Lobelo, epidemiologist with Kaiser Permanente Georgia. "
 
Check this quote out. You went with politics so I replied.

"Careful and public scrutiny of the evolving data will be needed to assure that decisions about boosting are informed by reliable science more than by politics." They FDA smacked the admin around on that one.

If a booster is approved I will take it. But I don't trust the politicians involved.
Just like a few who say they are vaxed but need protection for being vaxed. It will never end for those types. The rest of their adult lives will be spent with a mask on because fauci said so.
We agree on these points. The next sentence could use elaboration on who the few are, much like the "some" of your previous post.
Fauci makes some specific recommendations you jump to him having some extensive impact? Either way; your life will be just fine if someone wears a mask well past a defined period of caution. Keep on trucking! Don't get too happy about it.
 
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Check this quote out. You went with politics so I replied.

"Careful and public scrutiny of the evolving data will be needed to assure that decisions about boosting are informed by reliable science more than by politics." They FDA smacked the admin around on that one.

If a booster is approved I will take it. But I don't trust the politicians involved. Just like a few who say they are vaxed but need protection for being vaxed. It will never end for those types. The rest of their adult lives will be spent with a mask on because fauci said so.
Speaking of masks, I was mowing this afternoon, and this is in a small town in East Texas, and a guy comes by on a motor scooter wearing a blue mask and blue nitrile gloves. I almost fell of the mower laughing. Evidently he's terrified of the virus, but not massive brain trauma. He wasn't wearing a helmet. :eek:
 
Reactions: Ultrairon
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Why are the government rationing regen monoclonal antibody treatments. Are they just punishing states or is there a real reason to do this? Looks and feels political.

"It's not a silver bullet. It's much, much, much more important to be vaccinated. But, in case you're not vaccinated, or even if you have been vaccinated and have a breakthrough infection, earlier in the course of the disease, monoclonal antibodies can help reduce the viral load and reduce the risk of hospitalization up to 70%," said Dr. Felipe Lobelo, epidemiologist with Kaiser Permanente Georgia. "
At this point I think it's hopelessly politicized.
 
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Do as I say not as I do:


Things like this feed the fires of dissent, and rightfully so.
 
Reactions: Ultrairon
Both of the big hospitals here do have beds for non SC2 who are going to die if they don't receive immediate care (I don't know the number/percent). Stage 2B breast cancer and ICD replacement don't meet the criteria to get one of those beds...yet. What if she dies of a heart attack in November? What if her breast cancer progresses and therefore affects her life even more or kills her? One of the system managers said that ventilators are part of the problem (not enough? not enough staff to monitor? not enough rooms? I didn't read the interview yet).

*I haven't read this anywhere for confirmation, but a guy at work said that the largest hospital here has set aside one floor of the hospital for emergency non-SC2 care. That probably still doesn't include the two ladies I've typed about above.

*There is an oncology practice here that is still just doing that because 1) they aren't emergency care doctors, 2) there is huge need for oncological care. They have about 8X patients than they did in 2019.

*The reproductive clinic of the largest hospital is business as usual though (is that critical care?!).

*A large medical imaging center is struggling because doctors aren't seeing, therefore sending, patients.

EDIT: I'm being a little more cautious on my dirt rides because if I need emergency care, I'm not sure what my fate will be.

EDIT: BSU announced yesterday that proof of vaccination or a recent negative test are required for entrance into the game tonight...the clinics on and near campus are a little busy this morning.

EDIT 3: Part of the problem isn't beds or space, but a lack of qualified people to provide care.

EDIT 4 (how many edits can I do?!): I just want to be clear that I'm not 'blaming' the healthcare providers, I'm blaming anti-vax people who ranted about their liberty because they are the ones F#@! other peoples' liberty.
Glad to hear they do have some beds for non covid. But it's sad the people you know can't get the care they need. My husband was released today. They are happy with the improvement and hopefully Monday they will get results and have a plan for him going forward.
 
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We agree on these points. The next sentence could use elaboration on who the few are, much like the "some" of your previous post.
Fauci makes some specific recommendations you jump to him having some extensive impact? Either way; your life will be just fine if someone wears a mask well past a defined period of caution. Keep on trucking! Don't get too happy about it.
I'm happy that the FDA is doing its job. No doubt I don't worry too much about the masks. Its the hypocrisy of it all that makes me shake my head. Few folks who have been vaccinated still feel the need for further protection. Eventually as you say life will be just fine if someone does or does not wear a mask or get the vax.

It is odd the victory dance that was seemingly taking place when these non covid vaxed pass away from covid. The non vaxed could turn around and start posting up stories about deaths of the vaxed. Not a good look at all yet it is done here and given the thumbs up. "some" here are doing just that.
 
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So no third Pfizer shot for the general public...for now. While I was eating breakfast I had one of the Sunday AM shows on and one of the contributors listed: immunocompromised, 65+, healthcare workers and 'other high risk' occupations (police, first responders/fire, teachers...) as the people who will be included.

I wonder what Moderna is finding? I wonder if this decision affects how they approach their discussions of a third dose? I'm going from my poor memory on this, but at some point I think that I remember them saying that a third shot at one year was 'likely'. I don't know if they had data pointing that way or if they were using other virus/vaccine experience.

J&J?
 
So no third Pfizer shot for the general public...for now. While I was eating breakfast I had one of the Sunday AM shows on and one of the contributors listed: immunocompromised, 65+, healthcare workers and 'other high risk' occupations (police, first responders/fire, teachers...) as the people who will be included.

I wonder what Moderna is finding? I wonder if this decision affects how they approach their discussions of a third dose? I'm going from my poor memory on this, but at some point I think that I remember them saying that a third shot at one year was 'likely'. I don't know if they had data pointing that way or if they were using other virus/vaccine experience.

J&J?
I read an article that was talking about how much higher the Moderna dose is, which is part of why the side effects are worse after the second dose. It was also talking about break through infections being much lower for those who had Moderna.



 
I read an article that was talking about how much higher the Moderna dose is, which is part of why the side effects are worse after the second dose. It was also talking about break through infections being much lower for those who had Moderna.



Glad to hear about your husband,I am sure that you are ultra stressed,but getting out of the hospital is a good milestone..I personally have always found that my own bed,sofa ,family and pets are more therapeutic than even the best,well equipped hospital room
 
Glad to hear about your husband,I am sure that you are ultra stressed,but getting out of the hospital is a good milestone..I personally have always found that my own bed,sofa ,family and pets are more therapeutic than even the best,well equipped hospital room
Thanks. Yeah, I think ultra-stressed is an understatement. Right now hoping they get some answers with the tests they are waiting on and get a plan for him. The other thing is food at home is better than hospital food.
 
Glad to hear about your husband,I am sure that you are ultra stressed,but getting out of the hospital is a good milestone..I personally have always found that my own bed,sofa ,family and pets are more therapeutic than even the best,well equipped hospital room
Unless there is an absolute need for people to be in a hospital you'll find humans (or even dogs and other pets who usually don't like being stuck into a kennel no matter how nice it is) always do better in their own homes just because they find their well-known surroundings comforting. There is a lot to be said for emotional health. As long as you can provide for their non-medical immediate needs ( and they don't actually have to be hospitalized) I'm all for keeping them at home.
 
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Thanks. Yeah, I think ultra-stressed is an understatement. Right now hoping they get some answers with the tests they are waiting on and get a plan for him. The other thing is food at home is better than hospital food.
even before I knew how much you love bike racing..have skin in the game..you are a favorite..I can't imagine what is on your shoulders..but I am glad you keep pushing...God bless your husband and his first pizza,tacos after a 100% recovery..tell him..sure it's September..but they will release eggnog ice cream at the end of October..so focus!!!
 
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