Cortisone use and Dr. Ferrari

[Berzin]

No it does not. His(Conconi) tests have revolutionized endurance sports.

The Conconi test has been debunked as absolute rubbish by anyone who has access to a halfway competent cycling coach and a SRM powermeter.

In fact, you don't even need a coach if you know hot to analyze the data from the SRM.

 

[Kennf1]

Finally, no doubt whatsoever, you are a troll....

Agreed. Although I thought it was established when he said pro cyclists have never taken corticosteroids.

 

[Digger]

Agreed. Although I thought it was established when he said pro cyclists have never taken corticosteroids.

Good point

 

[TheArbiter]

The Conconi test has been debunked as absolute rubbish by anyone who has access to a halfway competent cycling coach and a SRM powermeter.

In fact, you don't even need a coach if you know hot to analyze the data from the SRM.

Don't be silly. Sports scientists involved in cycling will tell you, even if they disapprove of the rumours about him, that nevertheless Ferrari's tests and his number crunching transformed the sport. Why do you think so many people wanted to work with him? You seriously think he was the only guy cyclists could get dope for them? Even Filippo Simeoni admits that he was on dope years before he met Ferrari, and he continued to use dope after he stopped seeing him.

Lets get real.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Don't be silly. Sports scientists involved in cycling will tell you that Ferrari's tests and his number crunching transformed the sport. Why do you think so many people wanted to work with him? You seriously think he was the only guy who could get dope for them?

Can you name any of those Sports Scientists?

Of course the riders get their doping from many sources - but Dr. Ferrari is viewed as the best as he is a hematologist - not a coach.
In Willy Voets book the PDM Doctor was given the nickname Dr. Punto- because he was so far behind the doping practices of Dr. Ferrari.

 

[Eva Maria]

Don't be silly. Sports scientists involved in cycling will tell you, even if they disapprove of the rumours about him, that nevertheless Ferrari's tests and his number crunching transformed the sport. Why do you think so many people wanted to work with him? You seriously think he was the only guy cyclists could get dope for them? Even Filippo Simeoni admits that he was on dope years before he met Ferrari, and he continued to use dope after he stopped seeing him.

Lets get real.

The best Troll's stay in character even after they have been figured out

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The best Troll's stay in character even after they have been figured out

No - the worst trolls...

 

[TheArbiter]

Of course the riders get their doping from many sources - but Dr. Ferrari is viewed as the best as he is a hematologist - not a coach

This is plain wrong. He is still hugely respected for his coaching skills and sport science even by people who suspect his moral boundaries. Check out this article which gives a a more rounded view than simply "the doping doctor" cliche.

http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s1-3-12-13773-1-P,00.html

You guys have a nerve to talk about trolling after that nonsense on the Armstrong blood values thread. You clearly have a screw loose if you think making up conspiracy theories about Armstrong is an occasion to mock Armstrong respectors. It made you guys look really bad that you didn't call the guy on it instead. You'll never live that one down.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

This is plain wrong. He is still hugely respected for his coaching skills and sport science even by people who suspect his moral boundaries. Check out this article which gives a a more rounded view than simply "the doping doctor" cliche.

http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s1-3-12-13773-1-P,00.html

You guys have a nerve to talk about trolling after that nonsense on the Armstrong blood values thread. You clearly have a screw loose if you think making up conspiracy theories about Armstrong is an occasion to mock Armstrong respectors. It made you guys look really bad that you didn't call the guy on it instead. You'll never live that one down.

Its a simple question really - name any of the sports scientists that say he is just a great coach?

Also I never said anything about LA's blood values - I questioned when there were issued.
Please stick to the subject and stop painting everyone with the same brush - or that will continue to be perceived as trolling.

 

[TheArbiter]

Its a simple question really - name any of the sports scientists that say he is just a great coach?

Also I never said anything about LA's blood values - I questioned when there were issued.
Please stick to the subject and stop painting everyone with the same brush - or that will continue to be perceived as trolling.

"I think he is one of the most knowledgeable and best trainers in cycling"

- Giorgio Squinzi

Well done for disassociating yourself with Eva Maria, Digger and others. Good move.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

"I think he is one of the most knowledgeable and best trainers in cycling"

- Giorgio Squinzi

Well done for disassociating yourself with Eva Maria, Digger and others. Good move.

Firstly - I don't associate or disassociate from other people. I just dont like the fact that when I mention my views on Armstrong doping than I am tarnished with the same brush.

All the people you mentioned above are equally critical thinkers and also back up much of what they say with quotes or links.

You do realise that Giorgio Squinzi left the sport because he could not control his riders from doping? Many on his team had links with Ferrari.

 

[TheArbiter]

You do realise that Giorgio Squinzi left the sport because he could not control his riders from doping? Many on his team had links with Ferrari.

That makes him more credible.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

That makes him more credible.

When you were quoting Squinzi you omitted an interesting part....

"I think he is one of the most knowledgeable and best trainers in cycling," Squinzi says, "but I also think he is a person who operates without any moral restrictions whatsoever."

So you believe that it makes Dr. Ferrari more credible because someone who is strongly anti-doping pulls their sponsorship from the sport because his riders are associating with Dr. Ferrari?.....

 

[TheArbiter]

When you were quoting Squinzi you omitted an interesting part....

"I think he is one of the most knowledgeable and best trainers in cycling," Squinzi says, "but I also think he is a person who operates without any moral restrictions whatsoever."

So you believe that it makes Dr. Ferrari more credible because someone who is strongly anti-doping pulls their sponsorship from the sport because his riders are associating with Dr. Ferrari?.....

I wrote:

He is still hugely respected for his coaching skills and sport science even by people who suspect his moral boundaries.

So I'd already mentioned that. You asked who it was.

That Squinzi believes some of the rumours about Ferrari and dope, makes his remarks about him being one of the best cycling trainers all the more credible. He has no reason to say it.

Glad to clear this up for you.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I wrote:

So I'd already mentioned that. You asked who it was.

That Squinzi believes some of the rumours about Ferrari and dope, makes his remarks about him being one of the best cycling trainers all the more credible. He has no reason to say it.

Glad to clear this up for you.

I am afraid you haven't cleared that up for me...

This is plain wrong. He is still hugely respected for his coaching skills and sport science even by people who suspect his moral boundaries. Check out this article which gives a a more rounded view than simply "the doping doctor" cliche...

You mention people - I thought you might have had more sources than from an article that I provided.

Its a simple question really - name any of the sports scientists that say he is just a great coach?

The point of this discussion is that you believe that people who go to Ferrari just go because he is a 'great coach".

My point is that people go to him as he is a hematologist - as he understands the bloods role in physiology and how to manipulate it.

 

[TheArbiter]

My point is that people go to him as he is a hematologist - as he understands the bloods role in physiology and how to manipulate it.

That was your general point. Not the specific point in question .

My point is that riders can get dope easily, and are quite expert on how to make it work for them given their years of experience. This stuff is not hard to find out for a pro. Ferrari is one of the best coaches in the business and has a lot to offer any rider.

 

[Anonymous]

Cut off the troll. Don't respond to his posts anymore. It is the only way we will get him to stop using this sock puppet and change to another one. Sooner or later he will run out of email addresses.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

That was your general point. Not the specific point in question .

My point is that riders can get dope easily, and are quite expert on how to make it work for them given their years of experience. This stuff is not hard to find out for a pro. Ferrari is one of the best coaches in the business and has a lot to offer any rider.

The specific "point in question"

Its a simple question really - name any of the sports scientists that say he is just a great coach?
...

You mentioned many people - I have asked for you to show a quote from anyone who says Dr Ferrari is just a coach, which should be rather easy to find since you mentioned many people.

Yes riders get dope easily - but Ferrari gives his expertise on exactly when and how much to use.

 

[TheArbiter]

The specific "point in question"


You mentioned many people - I have asked for you to show a quote from anyone who says Dr Ferrari is just a coach, which should be rather easy to find since you mentioned many people.

Yes riders get dope easily - but Ferrari gives his expertise on exactly when and how much to use.

You're playing semantics now. I never said he was just a great coach. He is many things. You didn't expect me to provide a quote and I did.

 

[TheArbiter]

Cut off the troll. Don't respond to his posts anymore. It is the only way we will get him to stop using this sock puppet and change to another one. Sooner or later he will run out of email addresses.

I have only ever had one account on this board. I doubt you have.

Before Dr. Maserati started playing semantics, he kindly confirmed I am not a troll. He said I wouldn't be if I answered his question, and I did. He doesn't want to be tarred with the same brush as anti Armstrong trolls like you either, so give him a break.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You're playing semantics now. I never said he was just a great coach. He is many things. You didn't expect me to provide a quote and I did.

Dont acccuse me of playing semantics please.

Don't be silly. Sports scientists involved in cycling will tell you, even if they disapprove of the rumours about him, that nevertheless Ferrari's tests and his number crunching transformed the sport. Why do you think so many people wanted to work with him? .

...you mentioned that "Ferrari's tests and number crunching transformed" the sport.

Please show a quote or link that backs up that claim.
The article - that I provided - does indeed give a well rounded view on Dr. Ferrari - with the obvious conclusion that he is the doping Doctor.

 

[TheArbiter]

Dont acccuse me of playing semantics please.

If you are playing semantics I will call you on it.

...you mentioned that "Ferrari's tests and number crunching transformed" the sport.

Your last request backfired so you decide to play the same game again on another point, eh?

Well apart from testmony from past riders, in that article the Pantani story was amazing. Shows you what a genuis the guy was. Who wouldn't want that type of brain working for your team? To be able to calculate when a guy is going to blow up like that is great stuff.

The article - that I provided - does indeed give a well rounded view on Dr. Ferrari - with the obvious conclusion that he is the doping Doctor.

Well you can read it in two ways. If you'd never heard of the guy and read the article, you'd obviously be concerned about the drug allegations. On the other hand, if you've only ever read the tosh on message boards about him, I think it does paint a wider picture.

You're entitled to your view though.

 

[Anonymous]

Dont acccuse me of playing semantics please.



...you mentioned that "Ferrari's tests and number crunching transformed" the sport.

Please show a quote or link that backs up that claim.
The article - that I provided - does indeed give a well rounded view on Dr. Ferrari - with the obvious conclusion that he is the doping Doctor.

Seriously man, just stop responding to him. He feeds on attention and if you starve him of it, he will go away...at least with that screen name.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

If you are playing semantics I will call you on it.
......
Your last request backfired so you decide to play the same game again on another point, eh?

Well apart from testmony from past riders, in that article the Pantani story was amazing. Shows you what a genuis the guy was. Who wouldn't want that type of brain working for your team? To be able to calculate when a guy is going to blow up like that is great stuff.

Well you can read it in two ways. If you'd never heard of the guy and read the article, you'd obviously be concerned about the drug allegations. On the other hand, if you've only ever read the tosh on message boards about him, I think it does paint a wider picture.

You're entitled to your view though.

I am not playing semantics - it is you who has not answered the question I asked originally.
It was in relation to the "Sports Scientists" & that Dr Ferrari had transformed the sport.

I have followed the career of Dr Ferrari since 1994 - I have heard he is a good coach but never that he transformed cycling as a coach - only as the leading expert in doping.

You are also entitled to your view - but if you make a claim it would be better to have some backup to it - as others may perceive it as mere trolling.

 

[patswana]

Don't be silly. Sports scientists involved in cycling will tell you, even if they disapprove of the rumours about him, that nevertheless Ferrari's tests and his number crunching transformed the sport. Why do you think so many people wanted to work with him? You seriously think he was the only guy cyclists could get dope for them? Even Filippo Simeoni admits that he was on dope years before he met Ferrari, and he continued to use dope after he stopped seeing him.

What would be the point of using doping products that anyone can get hold of? Where would you get any advantage?

If you use products like that, then you are using products that are tested for so you have to use small doses to avoid getting busted or else find a way of masking them.

If you go to a Dr Ferrari-style person, they can hook you up with better dope or better ways to dope. Thus you can take the big doses, get the big advantage, knowing that you'll never test positive because the products he gives are not tested for or not able to be detected using his special methods.