Cortisone use and Dr. Ferrari

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I have to admit you are in very good form today.

I got 12 1/2 hours of sleep last night. Don't worry, I'll be back to normal tomorrow.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I have to admit you are in very good form today.

Actually I find Scribe to be a fun and fair poster - he is willing to look at the facts and not jump to the same old list of denial's.

His standards are pretty high though - he asked for one rider associated with being given advice on how to use PED's by Ferrari and I gave him Simeoni on a plate - and now he wants another..... (Bortolami said the asteriks on his diary were when Ferrari told him to take EPO - but he withdrew that on the stand!)

Damn the Pro Peloton and their Omerta.....

 

[Anonymous]

Actually I find Scribe to be a fun and fair poster - he is willing to look at the facts and not jump to the same old list of denial's.

His standards are pretty high though - he asked for one rider associated with being given advice on how to use PED's by Ferrari and I gave him Simeoni on a plate - and now he wants another..... (Bortolami said the asteriks on his diary were when Ferrari told him to take EPO - but he withdrew that on the stand!)

Damn the Pro Peloton and their Omerta.....

I find it amazing that anyone would seriously discuss Ferrari in any light other than him being a genius in the use of PED's. I cannot take anyone who presents such drivel as that he and Arbiter peddle seriously either intellectually nor in terms of honesty.

It is purely troll material and while I respect trolldom for what it is, I will also endeavor to meet like with like.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Filippo Simeoni admitted that he took EPO before and after meeting Ferrari, so his credibility is in question. The judge agreed.

Yes - Simeoni admitted to taking PED's long before he was sent to Dr. Ferrari by his team.
This is credible - unless you have evidence that he did not take PED's before he met Ferrari- as that would damage his credibility.

Also you say the Judge agreed? I have seen nothing to support your claim.

There is this article which suggests that in Simeoni's testimony he had claimed to have been given PED's by Ferrari. However this was an inaccurate report as Simeoni had never suggested that - as is clear in his original testimony that he bought the PED's in Switzerland.
Ultimately the Appeal Court threw out the case because it had exceeded the Statute of Limitations - as confirmed in this article.

In fact the Judge said this in 2004:
"None the arguments used by the defence of Ferrari is likely to undermine the credibility of Simeoni, whose declarations, on the contrary, are consolidated by a series of other elements collected during the lawsuit."

To be clear - so as you do not think I am trolling, playing semantics or being disingenuous - I would appreciate a link to suggest that Simeoni did not use PED's until he met Ferrari and a link or quote from the Judge (not Ferrari's legal team) where he called in to question the credibility of Simeoni in regards to his testimony against Dr. Ferrari.

 

[TheArbiter]

Yes - Simeoni admitted to taking PED's long before he was sent to Dr. Ferrari by his team.
This is credible - unless you have evidence that he did not take PED's before he met Ferrari- as that would damage his credibility.

Also you say the Judge agreed? I have seen nothing to support your claim.

There is this article which suggests that in Simeoni's testimony he had claimed to have been given PED's by Ferrari. However this was an inaccurate report as Simeoni had never suggested that - as is clear in his original testimony that he bought the PED's in Switzerland.
Ultimately the Appeal Court threw out the case because it had exceeded the Statute of Limitations - as confirmed in this article.

In fact the Judge said this in 2004:
"None the arguments used by the defence of Ferrari is likely to undermine the credibility of Simeoni, whose declarations, on the contrary, are consolidated by a series of other elements collected during the lawsuit."

To be clear - so as you do not think I am trolling, playing semantics or being disingenuous - I would appreciate a link to suggest that Simeoni did not use PED's until he met Ferrari and a link or quote from the Judge (not Ferrari's legal team) where he called in to question the credibility of Simeoni in regards to his testimony against Dr. Ferrari.

The judge can say what he likes afterwards, but he did confirm during the trial that Simeoni had not been given dope by Ferrari, has been doping before he met him, and he confirmed that rises in HCG levels could have risen naturally in the cases they were looking at.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The judge can say what he likes afterwards, but he did confirm during the trial that Simeoni had not been given dope by Ferrari, has been doping before he met him, and he confirmed that rises in HCG levels could have risen naturally in the cases they were looking at.

So thats a no then -you can't back up your claim?

 

[TheArbiter]

So thats a no then -you can't back up your claim?

What claim?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

What claim?

Please read my post #203 - it has your quote on the top.

 

[ridelikethewind]

You may want to actually read Coyle's book. He talks about how even after the press release saying they cut ties Ferrari still stayed at the same hotel he was staying, just around the corner from Armstrong's apartment in Girona. Armstrong, Levi,and Ferrari were all spotted staying at the same Parador and training in the Canaries.

Here is a nice picture of Popo, Danielson, Sinkewitz, Gasperatto, and friends training with Ferrari (Black T-Shirt), years after they said they severed ties.

Funny how Armstrong recently said the Ferrari was a close family friend, yet when Franco Pellizotti and Vincenzo Nibali are linked with him they file an anti-defamation suit.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pellizotti-and-nibali-deny-working-with-ferrari

It must be well out of season as they don't look in great shape. Looks more like me and my mates on our annual trip to a decent sized mountain.

Who is the guy in the black and yellow kit sporting the pot belly? Was he a contender this year?

 

[TheArbiter]

Please read my post #203 - it has your quote on the top.

So the judge passed no comment during the trial on his credibility. Okay then.

 

[TheArbiter]

It must be well out of season as they don't look in great shape. Looks more like me and my mates on our annual trip to a decent sized mountain.

Who is the guy in the black and yellow kit sporting the pot belly? Was he a contender this year?

Yes it shows you how close Ferrari was to the riders. The impression I get is the riders he worked for tended to like him a lot on a personal level. He really understood them and they appreciated that.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So the judge passed no comment during the trial on his credibility. Okay then.

So, Simeoni's testimony is credible -thank you for clearing that up.

 

[TheArbiter]

So, Simeoni's testimony is credible -thank you for clearing that up.

That doesn't automatically mean this, no. But, as Ferrari noted in the interview we read, it seems very strange Simeoni says he was told to take drugs that would show up in a test, in the same week he would be tested. This certainly raises questions. And why would he testify against Ferrari if he didn't even give him the drugs? I don't know what he got in return. And if he is so against dope, why did he continue using it? All very strange. Thank god it was all thrown out by the statute of limitations. Good riddance.

 

[ridelikethewind]

Yes it shows you how close Ferrari was to the riders. The impression I get is the riders he worked for tended to like him a lot on a personal level. He really understood them and they appreciated that.

Yes it does.

Everyone has coach who try to get the best out of people and nutrition and sustinance is a very impprtant part of it.

I think that we are all aware that in most cases there is a very thin dividing line between the allowable performance enhancing and health damaging practices.

I do struggle with where the line is drawn. At one stage I thought that evrything should be allowed so if someone 'chose' to be a proffessionaal athlete they could pump themselves full of whatever they wanted and just go for it. That was at the time of the Johnson 100M eye popping dash and I must say that I found his performance captivating.

The money and the grooming of children for sporting success and the shortening of lives associated with the earlier PEDS as a potential consequnece made me think otherwise.

However, I have reconciled my view and that is that anything should be allowed and that it should be up to parents, athletes coaches to decide. We can't control the streets, we send 18 year olds to wars so we sould let the athletes do whatever they want to make themselves go faster. There should still be the law of full accountability so if anyone dies the reasons and responsibilities should be fully investiagted.

 

[TheArbiter]

Yes it does.

Everyone has coach who try to get the best out of people and nutrition and sustinance is a very impprtant part of it.

I think that we are all aware that in most cases there is a very thin dividing line between the allowable performance enhancing and health damaging practices.

I do struggle with where the line is drawn. At one stage I thought that evrything should be allowed so if someone 'chose' to be a proffessionaal athlete they could pump themselves full of whatever they wanted and just go for it. That was at the time of the Johnson 100M eye popping dash and I must say that I found his performance captivating.

The money and the grooming of children for sporting success and the shortening of lives associated with the earlier PEDS as a potential consequnece made me think otherwise.

However, I have reconciled my view and that is that anything should be allowed and that it should be up to parents, athletes coaches to decide. We can't control the streets, we send 18 year olds to wars so we sould let the athletes do whatever they want to make themselves go faster. There should still be the law of full accountability so if anyone dies the reasons and responsibilities should be fully investiagted.

But if you think about how many riders were using EPO at one point, the ratio of deaths does seem very small indeed, and were not always directly linked.

I know a little bit about anabolic steroids, which is not really used in the same way for endurance sports as in body building so the comparison is not quite the same, but in that case the propaganda far outweights the reality of the risks. Indeed it might be called one big hoax. The biggest risk from steriods is them not being the real thing.

 

[Izoard]

Yes it shows you how close Ferrari was to the riders. The impression I get is the riders he worked for tended to like him a lot on a personal level. He really understood them and they appreciated that.

Yup, he was real close, you can't get much closer

 

[TheArbiter]

Yup, he was real close

They actually do use legitmate syringes during the Tour for vitamin injections and drips. Even Greg Lemond got iron injected into him.

 

[Izoard]

Yup, he was real close, you can't get much closer

Other part ...

 

[luigiV]

sort of funny hehe.... im suprised lances kids...seeing as his bloods so full of chemical wonder if hids kids have side affects like

1...cow features
2...instead of talking they make animal noises
3..and think they got wings so they try and fly

 

[VeloCity]

http://velocitynation.com/content/features/2010/doctor-doctor-michele-ferrari

(With apologies if that link has already been posted, didn't go back to read the entire thread)

Quite a who's-who of known and suspected dopers. The funny thing about Ferrari, really, is just how many of the riders that he's worked with have been busted at some point in their career for doping.

 

[Escarabajo]

http://velocitynation.com/content/features/2010/doctor-doctor-michele-ferrari

(With apologies if that link has already been posted, didn't go back to read the entire thread)

Quite a who's-who of known and suspected dopers. The funny thing about Ferrari, really, is just how many of the riders that he's worked with have been busted at some point in their career for doping.

Where is Levi? I thought he had to cut ties with him on 2006 the year the Operacion Puerto broke.

 

[ChrisE]

I just read this whole thread. Some very funny shyt in here. Arbitor had you guys worked up into a lather.

 

[Sheltowee]

Oh, okay.



Cortisoid steroids have never been used by cyclists - there is no benefit for them - which is why nobody but internet loons still cite this incident. It wasn't even declared a positive test because the levels were so low - entirely consistent with a cream. I'm sure French people are intelligent enough to know that.

You are an idiot.

 

[pmcg76]

You are an idiot.

Dont stress, Arbiter is long gone but has had about 20 other usernames since then and has been banned every time. Eveyone can see why, his posts were constantly idiotic and were aimed at stirring people which as Chris E pointed out before, worked. He was a troll, pure and simple yet claims he was victimised.