Crashes, what can be done?

[tobydawq]

That's 8 full, massive WT bunch sprints so far this season and only one tiny crash involving three riders, two days ago in PN.

But I guess nobody counts that so the next time a crash happens, it will be doom and gloom and most dangerous time in the sport again.

 

[Lequack]

I mean a lot of these sprints were quite dicey and nervous to watch. Wouldn't say safe, but luckily no big crashes.

 

[tobydawq]

I mean a lot of these sprints were quite dicey and nervous to watch. Wouldn't say safe, but luckily no big crashes.

Of course they were, they're sprints.

But with tramadol taken out of the equation, the riders are aware of what's going on around them.

 

[fmk_RoI]

That's 8 full, massive WT bunch sprints so far this season and only one tiny crash involving three riders, two days ago in PN.

Where are you counting crashes, the final straight, the last km, or inside the final 3 kms?

 

[tobydawq]

Where are you counting crashes, the final straight, the last km, or inside the final 3 kms?

Inside the final 3.

In the final kilometre there has been no crashes so far.

 

[Izzyeviel]

Meanwhile in the UK domestic scene.... found this chris opie video which some of you will find interesting.

 

[CyclistAbi]

UCI to investigate massive Tour of Flanders crash, road-blocking team tactics

'We want to set an example' says UCI official

www.cyclingnews.com

Looks like the governing bodies are starting to take safety more seriously.

In regards to the stance "We want to set an example". This shows such considerations are in infancy. As in my opinion this is a bad approach. Trying to set an example. What you should be doing instead is constantly keeping an eye on things and try to implement sensible solutions to prevent such incidents in the future. Setting an example is usually a more populist move. When you admit i haven't taken this seriously so far. But now i will set an example to show how committed i am. Well.

Still it's i guess a start.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

UCI to investigate massive Tour of Flanders crash, road-blocking team tactics

'We want to set an example' says UCI official

www.cyclingnews.com

Looks like the governing bodies are starting to take safety more seriously.

In regards to the stance "We want to set an example". This shows such considerations are in infancy. As in my opinion this is a bad approach. Trying to set an example. What you should be doing instead is constantly keeping an eye on things and try to implement sensible solutions to prevent such incidents in the future. Setting an example is usually a more populist move. When you admit i haven't taken this seriously so far. But now i will set an example to show how committed i am. Well.

Still it's i guess a start.

In my world it's pure madness (you can call it an extremely populistic POV) to even consider on the hindsight to statue an example.
And then such a vague, unspecific statement, just like the governing party is in doubt and needs to buy an external braincell to declare more obvious precise no-nonsense rules for future use.

That could e.g. be like "Onwards from here we will ensure punishment/DQ of riders following alternative paths in order to overtake a group of riders".

To streamline new rules retroactively is just so far out IMO, that I have no words.

 

[RedheadDane]

In regards to the stance "We want to set an example". This shows such considerations are in infancy. As in my opinion this is a bad approach. Trying to set an example. What you should be doing instead is constantly keeping an eye on things and try to implement sensible solutions to prevent such incidents in the future. Setting an example is usually a more populist move. When you admit i haven't taken this seriously so far. But now i will set an example to show how committed i am. Well.

As has been pointed out in the Basque Thread; that finale today doesn't exactly scream "We care about safety!"

 

[IndianCyclist]

Flanders showed that most crashes are actually caused by riders similar to 75% of planes crashes being pilot error. Which means that u can have rules, punishment, training but will not be able to prevent it. Also investing effort for other types is unlikely to lead to minimizing the number of crashes. Some sort of policing by the riders themselves might be required.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It doesn't help those stats when corrupt investigations like Air New Zealand Flight 901 blame pilot error to cover airline failures though.

Anyway, when I saw the headline being UCI to investigate crash - road blocking - team tactics I thought this was going to be about the women's race and Kopecky making sure to dismount by spreading herself across as much of the road as possible while one of her teammates also dismounted behind her and was going to say, are they arguing that that was deliberate? I'm certain it was not intended that they had to dismount, but I do definitely think that how Kopecky behaved once she did have to dismount was very cynical and unsporting.

DSM in the men's race were worse than Radioshack in the 2010 Tour Bastille Day stage and possibly even Rabobank in the 2014 Giro Rosa (although as I've said before, even if she managed to drop Vos, anybody who thinks Abbott takes two minutes on Ferrand-Prévot on that stage is smoking the hopium).

 

[search]

As has been pointed out in the Basque Thread; that finale today doesn't exactly scream "We care about safety!"

to be fair, crashes rarely happen on a "single file" type of finish like this, where the peloton is stretched out and it's impossible to pass.

Obviously it still wasn't a good finish, but not particularly dangerous, I'd say. The descent actually made it safer - as a flat finish, it would be unacceptable.

 

[RedheadDane]

Regarding the Maciejuk crash:
I've actually been speculating how the situation might have been different if there had been barriers just by that grass patch.
Sure, he would still have been on the wrong side, but maybe instead of torpedoing the peloton, he would have hit the barriers, fallen into a puddle, and maybe looked a bit silly.
Of course, that would require the barriers to not just fall over.

 

[rallybanana]

I found the street view location of the Maciejuk crash. It seems that even 2 years ago the crash would not have happened as the grass patch had not yet fully grown up to the edge of the road. Somebody must have removed some cobbles to allow the grass grow faster and create that massive puddle.

363 N8 - Google Maps

 

[Bonimenier]

Regarding the Maciejuk crash:
I've actually been speculating how the situation might have been different if there had been barriers just by that grass patch.
Sure, he would still have been on the wrong side, but maybe instead of torpedoing the peloton, he would have hit the barriers, fallen into a puddle, and maybe looked a bit silly.
Of course, that would require the barriers to not just fall over.

Is it realistic to put down barriers on all these type of places on a 270km parcours? Not sure about that. It's not like Flanders Classics isn't already doing a whole lot to make the course safer with the Boplan pillars for example. At some point crashes are the riders' fault and not the parcours'.

 

[tobydawq]

Is it realistic to put down barriers on all these type of places on a 270km parcours? Not sure about that. It's not like Flanders Classics isn't already doing a whole lot to make the course safer with the Boplan pillars for example. At some point crashes are the riders' fault and not the parcours'.

RhD always requires organisers to be able to predict the future.

 

[RedheadDane]

RhD always requires organisers to be able to predict the future.

No, I just think it's concerning that the organiserers rarely are held responsible. Guess it's easier to punish individuals...
Yes, Maciejuk made a mistake, my post was just speculation about how the situation might have been different. Wouldn't even need to be big metal barriers; I'm sure the simple "poles and rope" solution could help.
That could also help with crowd control those places metal barriers aren't possible.

 

[tobydawq]

No, I just think it's concerning that the organiserers rarely are held responsible. Guess it's easier to punish individuals...
Yes, Maciejuk made a mistake, my post was just speculation about how the situation might have been different. Wouldn't even need to be big metal barriers; I'm sure the simple "poles and rope" solution could help.
That could also help with crowd control those places metal barriers aren't possible.

There's one guy to blame for this incident and one guy only.

 

[RedheadDane]

There's one guy to blame for this incident and one guy only.

That doesn't mean he needs to be punished to "make an example".
If an incident was clearly organisational, do you really think the organisation responsible would be punished?

 

[tobydawq]

That doesn't mean he needs to be punished to "make an example".
If an incident was clearly organisational, do you really think the organisation responsible would be punished?

Don't know. Without organisers there wouldn't be any races. They're not our enemies.

And regarding my earlier statement about guilt in this case, I just heard the Radiotour podcast and Brian Holm of course thinks the other riders should be more alert and better at handling their bikes because "in Flanders, you know things are flying around you all the time and it's chaos"...

 

[RedheadDane]

Don't know. Without organisers there wouldn't be any races. They're not our enemies.

And most of them are in fact quite good at what they do. But the ones that make mistakes should be held responsible.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

And most of them are in fact quite good at what they do. But the ones that make mistakes should be held responsible.

I know you're watching everything everywhere all at once, but there are probaby also a lot of incidents that are never caught on camera in the races you believe to be well organised.

 

[RedheadDane]

I know you're watching everything everywhere all at once, but there are probaby also a lot of incidents that are never caught on camera in the races you believe to be well organised.

The riders are luckily quite good at calling out things that aren't okay.
Look, I just think that organisers should be held to a higher degree of responsibility than individuals, and my speculation regarding that Vlaanderen crash was simply about how a minor change could wastly have changed the outcome.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

The riders are luckily quite good at calling out things that aren't okay.
Look, I just think that organisers should be held to a higher degree of responsibility than individuals, and my speculation regarding that Vlaanderen crash was simply about how a minor change could wastly have changed the outcome.

I agree that Maciejuk shouldn't receive further punishment, but neither should Flanders Classics as the mistake was made by the rider.

 

[RedheadDane]

I agree that Maciejuk shouldn't receive further punishment, but neither should Flanders Classics as the mistake was made by the rider.

But for the future they - and other organisations - might consider tripple checking race routes and put up some sort of barriers in locations that might cause issue.