Crashes, what can be done?

[RedheadDane]

For that appropriate technical measures need to be taken into consideration and to be applied beforehand the crash occurs.

I think it's the general consensus that there should indeed have been some padding on that concrete ditch at Basque.
In fact, you could even be cynical, and say that not having padding on that was worse than not having padding on the culvert Lambrecht hit, because the one in the Basque Country was at a location with a higher risk for a crash, whereas in Poland it was just cursed bad luck.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

@Libertine Seguros

Thanks for trying to acknowledge a different point view. That is although more then 2/3 of your reply was again about all being it riders fault, you at least mentioned other parties involved this time. Although arguing things like other parties involved are too poor to do anything to improve safety in pro peloton, that at least opens up possibility to say OK, with more money involved in the future, things can finally improve.

So all in all i support an effort on where in general some portion of money involved is secured for the purpose of improving riders safety. So the money not to be sole excuse any more, on how nothing can be done, due to lack of money.

As we discussed this already in length, better apparel and barriers on exposed sections on descends. If that would be enforced already, financially rather negligible measures, big three would not end up in hospital and van Aert likely to still do the Giro. Both of the things mentioned are outside of riders influence or control. So in the end and from this point of view it doesn't really matter, if the big 3 crashed, if van Aert crashed ... What does matter is UCI didn't do anything about it, to prevent an injury, on where the crash does occur. This is their responsibility and we will make them take it.

My opinion has remained consistent throughout. My opinion is that there are things that race organisers and the UCI can do, but there's only so much they can do without buy-in from the riders - with the measures you propose, they might be able to reduce the extent of injuries caused by the crashes that take place, but not the amount of crashes that happen (I think more prescriptive guidelines on things like acceptable sprint lead-ins for final ~5km of flat stages would be a better plan of action, personally). I feel like your crusade against the UCI has led you to effectively treat things as though the riders have no agency or culpability for their actions and you lay all responsibility for improvement at the hands of the officials. But the riders are the only party involved (edit: also the motos and follow-cars, who have caused a few incidents themselves in recent times that should be called out too) for whom the action required for positive change requires no additional funding, no investment, and no implementation time... all it requires is a touch of introspection.

Also the van Aert crash happened in an area that would not have been fenced or barriered in your hypothetical version of world cycling. It was a completely innocuous stretch of road, in a reduced bunch, with plenty of space, not at a sprint, and on a flat stretch of road. That was precisely the kind of crash that any amount of rules on organisers cannot predict or legislate for. It's just unfortunate.

 

[Red Rick]

The worst crashes still always happen due to rider behavior. When riders feel something is dangerous, they actually watch out. But when they feel save they race like morons and find it okay to nuke each other. Every technical sprint simply has the peloton in one line. Sprint is more boring but a lot safer.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Mega crash at the Delfinato today.
Just a simple descent in the rain.
What's gone wrong with bike design this year?

 

[Izzyeviel]

It ain't the bikes. Problem exists between the riders helmet & chin strap.

 

[Nick2413]

Riding in a bigger and tighter peloton than decades ago due to more parity among the main bunch is probably a big factor. But in almost every other way the sport has probably gotten safer. There is just less tolerance of risk these days.

This was not a race organizer issue, but it will be attacked as one nonetheless.

 

[Izzyeviel]

It ain't the bikes. Problem exists between the riders helmet & chin strap.

Although after seeing the video, no-one is to blame in this instance. Someone went down on a slippery surface & people crashed avoiding him. Sometimes its just poo that happens.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Why were they going so fast then if it was that slippery?

Were they drilling it though? My stream crashed and when it was coming back on again everybody was on the floor. But from the footage of the crash I saw, I at least couldn't tell if that wasn't just being fast due to, well, riding downhill.

The left wet side of the road is just very slippery so when it starts, everybody is down safe the one rider who managed to take a right turn before the water.

 

[pastronef]

Why were they going so fast then if it was that slippery?

it was slippery in those few hundred meters under the trees, on a smoother asphalt. and shyt hit the fan right there

 

[Volderke]

Why were they going so fast then if it was that slippery?

They go down a hill like they go down a zillion hills. It's only when they approach a curve, a rider is braking and sliding, other riders can't avoid the initial crash and go down / slide as well, that everyone realizes it is slippery. But that's when it's too late.
Even the riders in the back who left some space couldn't all stop in time and some (like that DSM rider) crashed hard in the ditch.

A kind of stupid brainstorm idea: allow some really good amateurs to ride 30 minutes in front of the peloton, moto-pace, and let them give feedback on road conditions and let them even decide if e.g. downhills should be neutralized by motos. In this particular case, with the sudden wet roads, you need real-time updates, and it was clear from the lead duo that the roads were treacherous.

 

[AmRacer]

it was slippery in those few hundred meters under the trees, on a smoother asphalt. and shyt hit the fan right there

They went to fast.

 

[AmRacer]

They go down a hill like they go down a zillion hills. It's only when they approach a curve, a rider is braking and sliding, other riders can't avoid the initial crash and go down / slide as well, that everyone realizes it is slippery. But that's when it's too late.
Even the riders in the back who left some space couldn't all stop in time and some (like that DSM rider) crashed hard in the ditch.

A kind of stupid brainstorm idea: allow some really good amateurs to ride 30 minutes in front of the peloton, moto-pace, and let them give feedback on road conditions and let them even decide if e.g. downhills should be neutralized by motos. In this particular case, with the sudden wet roads, you need real-time updates, and it was clear from the lead duo that the roads were treacherous.

You are going full gas and hoping to not crash due to slippery road or someone infront of you crashing.

 

[Netserk]

They go down a hill like they go down a zillion hills. It's only when they approach a curve, a rider is braking and sliding, other riders can't avoid the initial crash and go down / slide as well, that everyone realizes it is slippery. But that's when it's too late.
Even the riders in the back who left some space couldn't all stop in time and some (like that DSM rider) crashed hard in the ditch.

A kind of stupid brainstorm idea: allow some really good amateurs to ride 30 minutes in front of the peloton, moto-pace, and let them give feedback on road conditions and let them even decide if e.g. downhills should be neutralized by motos. In this particular case, with the sudden wet roads, you need real-time updates, and it was clear from the lead duo that the roads were treacherous.

Both on this and the previous descent, GC teams moved up to the front while Trek kept the break in control (Trek slowed down on the previous descent as that one too was slippery, giving away ~40").

 

[Volderke]

You are going full gas and hoping to not crash due to slippery road or someone infront of you crashing.

That's what they call a bike race, yes.

 

[AmRacer]

That's what they call a bike race, yes.

Until they crash.

 

[Hugh Januss]

It's not the disc brakes or all the riders being bad bike handlers it's the modern team blueprint coupled with the varying agendas of a sprint (flattish) stage. Every GC guy wants to stay near the front but not expend too much energy and they all have 2 or 3 super strong teammates to help them do it. Every guy who thinks he is in with a chance at the sprint win wants to stay near the front and not expend too much energy, and they all have 2 or 3 guys to help them do it. So we wind up with 20 trains that all want the front on 5-6 meter wide roads. And they are going fast! To relax or hesitate drops you back 60 places. Then it starts raining and nobody wants to be the first to hesitate. A lot of times everyone makes it though okay, but one incident and suddenly it's bowling for bike racers. I don't know what the solution might be or even if there is one.

 

[Volderke]

Until they crash.

too often for my own liking, yes.

 

[Izzyeviel]

Why were they going so fast then if it was that slippery?

why wouldn't they be? straight road, slight downhill, heading towards the finish & everyones getting ready for a sprint finish. Someone loses grip & crashes & people panic trying to avoid him & they crash as well. There's nothing new or unique here. At the Basque you could clearly point to the modern day culture of cycling as being the chief culprit, but this was just a fluke accident.

 

[andrew_s]

What Hugh Januss said.

It's because they are riding too closely packed.
Ride half or 3/4 bike length clear of the bloke in front and a handlebar width clear of the rider next to you, and you've enough space to avoid touching wheels without braking, just freewheeling for 10 or 20 metres.
The tighter packed you are, the more likely it is that you'll have to brake to avoid a wheel touch, and if you brake, the rider behind will have to brake harder, and wet roads and braking don't go well together.

The trouble is that if you leave a gap, someone will move in to it and you'll drop back.

Ban race radios, I say.

 

[yaco]

The peleton were riding in a pack with two or three riders abreast at times. They would have been in single file if they were going flat out. This particualr descent was not that technical and the vision shows the crashes occurred on a straightish piece of road.

 

[Lequack]

Usually it's much safer to do descents single file, the two mass crashed this year happened precisely because there was a whole peloton trying to descend fast, like 4 or 5 riders wide.

 

[zlev11]

It's not the disc brakes or all the riders being bad bike handlers it's the modern team blueprint coupled with the varying agendas of a sprint (flattish) stage. Every GC guy wants to stay near the front but not expend too much energy and they all have 2 or 3 super strong teammates to help them do it. Every guy who thinks he is in with a chance at the sprint win wants to stay near the front and not expend too much energy, and they all have 2 or 3 guys to help them do it. So we wind up with 20 trains that all want the front on 5-6 meter wide roads. And they are going fast! To relax or hesitate drops you back 60 places. Then it starts raining and nobody wants to be the first to hesitate. A lot of times everyone makes it though okay, but one incident and suddenly it's bowling for bike racers. I don't know what the solution might be or even if there is one.

the disc brakes definitely add to it. they are so much more confident on the brakes that they think they'll be able to correct going into a corner too fast much quicker than with rim brakes. i dont think that was the problem today, it looked like it was more to do with the road conditions, but i dont think it helps at all.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Shades of Spa in 2010, could've just been oil.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

That's what they call a bike race, yes.

It's an endurance sport, though. If you race at Le Mans like it's Touring Cars with a 30 minute paint-swapping battle and foot firm to the floor throughout, you'll break the car before you get to the end.

I actually think that with the increase in technology and speeds, we might be better served making races longer to make them safer, because if riders need to take more care to manage their efforts rather than going 100% all out to drill it all the time, they'll use things like these descents as recovery time, because recovery time will be more important, and so they'd race those sections less aggressively organically.

 

[Tim Cahill]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1798821864426578317

Look at Lefevere taking the considered route, what a diplomat, perhaps remoulding himself into a John Hume type figure.

The next UCI president perhaps?