Crashes, what can be done?

[SHAD0W93]

P.S. And hopefully UCI takes Vismas confiscated "control center" vehicle and turns it into a safety car. It's time for pro peloton to get a safety car, on where through data analysis riders can get information on things like road surface grip on some section and in real time. It's still up to them then, the riders, on how to tackle it.

Your best idea in this thread.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Your best idea in this thread.

It's likely indeed a good idea but in my opinion active injury prevention should take precedence. Although, as the vehicle is already there, why not, just experiment with it and ASAP.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

P.S. And hopefully UCI takes Vismas confiscated "control center" vehicle and turns it into a safety car. It's time for pro peloton to get a safety car, on where through data analysis riders can get information on things like road surface grip on some section and in real time. It's still up to them then, the riders, on how to tackle it.

I have made the following suggestion years ago.

Dozens of GPS navigation apps have a feature to input feedback into the app, that will serve to warn other app users on the same course. Object on the road in 500 meters. Vehicle broken down at the side of the road, reduce your speed. Truck lost its cargo on the far right lane. Etc etc etc.

The technology exists. Every rider has an earpiece connected to a radio. Every course needs to be checked by UCI/ASO/... It's like 1+1+1=0 for these people.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Yes. The thing is now they actually have such vehicle in their possession and one of the biggest IT companies behind it, hope they will connect the dots ...

P.S. The graphic on race computer should IMHO be simple, to not overwhelm the riders. Like a symbol for Etna crater would mean that there is a big enough hole in the road approaching capable of crashing the peloton. But for starters something like an indicator signalling slippery road section ahead ... That would likely prevent the Dauphiné mass crash. And to build on that, once all that is working and proves to be effective.

 

[RedheadDane]

Most in this debate agreed on the importance of barriers. Well, air bag, that is a portable barrier. A barrier in between the rider and the obstacle the rider hits, when crashing.

A barrier that the riders will have to carry around.
A barrier that will restrict movement.

Do you think those "airbag devices" are completely flat when not inflated?
Well, here's a picture of one of those airbag helmets:

And this is supposedly a new "slimmer" version...

You expect riders to have that all over their bodies, for 100+ Ks?

 

[CyclistAbi]

@RedheadDane

We already discussed some tech currently on the market and i even posted pictures in this thread. As for your example i don't feel it's suitable for pro peloton. You found it on internet in some motorcycle section? I see it more as potential for neck support and not something that would protect collarbone and shoulder of a road cyclist. As such i agree with you this model is not suitable for pro peloton.

 

[RedheadDane]

It's a very common type of inflatable helmet.
The bulkyness is going to be the same no matter where on the body it's placed.

 

[jmdirt]

I have avoided this thread for quite some time, but for some reason clicked on it this morning.

It seems that 'air bag' garments are being discussed (I jokingly floated that last year). In road motorcycle racing (ie: Moto GP, WSB...) every racer wears them. Everyday JMs can now purchase a variety of vests, jackets, and suits with airbags. Motocross (AMA, MXGP...) racer don't use them because they are restrictive and hot. They are expensive, vest starting around $500, and suits around $2,500 (some are single use, other up to five deployments). Racers still break bones, but then again they are going way faster.

I had the opportunity to try an Alpinestars Tech Air Off Road (rally, desert...) $1,000, and it was considerably heavier than my summer jacket, and a little heavier than my spring/fall jacket. It had low air flow, and this was the tech air version.

Keep in mind, not only do these systems require the air bag itself, they require an inflation canister, and an electronic control system (with batteries).

I can't imagine a racer who eats like a supermodel to keep their weight dangerously low adding a heavy air bag system, that also reduces air flow.


IMO, not happening soon...

 

[Lequack]

So it seems nothing can be done about crashes? You would think with more and more money coming into the sport, teams would want to protect their investments, but nothing is changing for the better at all. It seems the opposite, there are more crashes, at higher speeds, and more dangerous.

 

[SHAD0W93]

So it seems nothing can be done about crashes? You would think with more and more money coming into the sport, teams would want to protect their investments, but nothing is changing for the better at all. It seems the opposite, there are more crashes, at higher speeds, and more dangerous.

Watching the crash now, I wonder how much brake lights would help in regards to those in the back of the group where it’s harder to see the crash occur.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Watching the crash now, I wonder how much brake lights would help in regards to those in the back of the group where it’s harder to see the crash occur.

Then the riders should have different colour lights depending on their skill level. If Nicole Frain brakes and you see a red light, for instance, you'd know it would already be way too late for you to brake, but if you see Pierre Latour's yellow light in a descent, you can probably wait a little longer before taking action, as long as you don't follow his line.

 

[jmdirt]

Watching the crash now, I wonder how much brake lights would help in regards to those in the back of the group where it’s harder to see the crash occur.

There are helmet mounted brake lights that work via accelerometer + gyrometer.

One example here (obviously needs to be re engineered for bike helmets):

Brake Free Helmet Brake Light

The home of Brake Free, the brightest smart high visibility helmet brake light accessory with wireless brake detection. The first detachable brake light that can easily mount to most helmets! Be seen to be safe.

www.brakefreetech.com

 

[RedheadDane]

Then the riders should have different colour lights depending on their skill level. If Nicole Frain brakes and you see a red light, for instance, you'd know it would already be way too late for you to brake, but if you see Pierre Latour's yellow light in a descent, you can probably wait a little longer before taking action, as long as you don't follow his line.

I thought the issue with Nicole Frain was that she didn't brake...
But maybe her seeing a bunch of lights would make her aware she should brake...

 

[Berniece]

Crash of yesterday showed again that we need more signals. How many crashes with the best riders do we need before they actually take action.

 

[yaco]

I thought the issue with Nicole Frain was that she didn't brake...
But maybe her seeing a bunch of lights would make her aware she should brake...

Frain mistakenly thought she could ride through a gap amongst fallen riders.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I thought the issue with Nicole Frain was that she didn't brake...
But maybe her seeing a bunch of lights would make her aware she should brake...

Yes, if she were braking, you'd probably already be on the ground.

 

[kingjr]

Not being a stupid *** idiot would help for starters. What the actual *** was that

That ought to be a ban for the rest of the season.

 

[fbjim]

but what if everyone had neck airbags?????

 

[Unchained]

but what if everyone had neck airbags?????

Roglic in a car right now going to the place that sells neck air bags

 

[jmdirt]

How? Don't have one guy slowing and veering as he goes backward, while another guy going faster tries to squeeze between said slowing rider and the fence.

 

[CyclistAbi]

The UCI said on Monday that the UCI Race Incidents Database, established in partnership with Ghent University in Belgium, had logged 341 crashes, plus other ‘near miss’ incidents.

UCI confirm trial ban of team radio at 2024 summer races and yellow card punishment plans in 2025

341 crashes logged on UCI database as SafeR begins to study weekly cases

www.cyclingnews.com

So finally in the year 2024 they started to log and to analyse crashes, on a weekly basis, to make reports and to recommend improvements. Imagine that. UCI. And as soon as they started doing that now it's already down to 50:50. Being a rider fault or not. Beforehand it was obviously 100% on you know who, the fans told us. Teams now really busting their balls to do something.

So lets see on how long it takes them to actually acknowledge, that crashes are problematic due to causing injuries. And hence, imagine that, injury prevention should be important too. Now how on earth are we going to prevent injuries. No ideas whatsoever involved, hope they come up with some sci-fi solution for earthlings. Are they going to wrap them in cotton, or are there better options? That would indeed be so funny.

Fingers crossed!

 

[The Hegelian]

Wrote the OP in 2020. I think things have improved quite a bit. The 3km GC stage finish rule has worked great. Maybe little tweaks like that are as good as we can do - remove those unnecessary pressure points. As a lot of people have argued, danger is inherent to the sport. I agree.

The sport is brilliant because it is always a dance between risk and reward. Pro cyclists win by suffering more, that's part of the dna of the sport. They are willing to suffer, willing to risk. And we are willing to watch because it is captivating.

Part of that willingness has to be an acceptance that we're invested in something that can lead to horrific or even tragic accidents. Maybe the answer is that we should appreciate the courage of the riders more. Maybe their madness also.

I think I was framing the OP from the point of view of a DS or team owner - how would I think if I had so much at stake on something that a moment of bad luck could completely ruin. I would definitely be trying to problem solve the risk. In any given peloton, there are always a few who are quite accident prone and always a few who just have peerless skills in avoiding the unavoidable. Maybe the answer is in that? Can you train a Geraint Thomas into a Peter Sagan, in terms of handling, awareness etc?

 

[RedheadDane]

Wrote the OP in 2020. I think things have improved quite a bit. The 3km GC stage finish rule has worked great.

It worked quite well before 2020, so why wouldn't it work after?
Or did it change?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

UCI confirm trial ban of team radio at 2024 summer races and yellow card punishment plans in 2025

341 crashes logged on UCI database as SafeR begins to study weekly cases

www.cyclingnews.com

So finally in the year 2024 they started to log and to analyse crashes, on a weekly basis, to make reports and to recommend improvements. Imagine that. UCI. And as soon as they started doing that now it's already down to 50:50. Being a rider fault or not. Beforehand it was obviously 100% on you know who, the fans told us. Teams now really busting their balls to do something.

So lets see on how long it takes them to actually acknowledge, that crashes are problematic due to causing injuries. And hence, imagine that, injury prevention should be important too. Now how on earth are we going to prevent injuries. No ideas whatsoever involved, hope they come up with some sci-fi solution for earthlings. Are they going to wrap them in cotton, or are there better options? That would indeed be so funny.

Fingers crossed!

Wait, so are you telling me that... the UCI has investigated and found that policing rider behaviour is key to reducing accidents?

But I thought you were telling us it was churlish and wrong to blame the riders, because it was all the UCI's fault and the solution was to wrap the riders up in cotton wool and sci-fi packaging that would protect the collarbone from a direct hit?

It's almost like... the people who were saying that rider behaviour is a key component in the number of crashes and policing this would be more helpful - and cheaper - than R&D into bulky airbag solutions weren't inhuman, uncaring a-holes intent on putting their heads in the sand about the real problems, but actually they had a handle on what would be an easier, more practical and effective means of taking action?

 

[Berniece]

Wait, so are you telling me that... the UCI has investigated and found that policing rider behaviour is key to reducing accidents?

But I thought you were telling us it was churlish and wrong to blame the riders, because it was all the UCI's fault and the solution was to wrap the riders up in cotton wool and sci-fi packaging that would protect the collarbone from a direct hit?

It's almost like... the people who were saying that rider behaviour is a key component in the number of crashes and policing this would be more helpful - and cheaper - than R&D into bulky airbag solutions weren't inhuman, uncaring a-holes intent on putting their heads in the sand about the real problems, but actually they had a handle on what would be an easier, more practical and effective means of taking action?

Did you actually ready the whole article? They literally say:

50% of crashes are due to rider behaviour, with 50% due to other factors, such as obstacles that are not signalled or the speed of the peloton

Not all the blame can be put at the riders.