Crashes, what can be done?

[DanielSong39]

I watched footage of Contador's attack on Verbier in 2009 and it didn't seem too bad, there were a few fans on the road but they didn't disrupt the race.

Most of the fans did follow the general rules and most people with flags ran behind the rider and only when they were riding solo or in a small group. The few who ran ahead were some distance from the rider and moved aside or off the road when the riders got closer.

It helps that it was on an 8% incline and the riders were doing 20km/h.

I guess it's a small number of fans that ruin it for everyone.

 

[Leinster]

If you run on the road, you do so behind the riders, never in front or beside them. If you step onto the road, you do it before they get near you, you keep your eyes on the incoming riders, and you step back when they get close. Only on slower (uphill) sections of the route. Otherwise, your feet should never touch the asphalt.

EDIT: and you shouldn't step on the road with flags and signs that can hit the riders.

The woman in stage 1 violated pretty much all the rules.

Are these rules written down somewhere? Is there a code of conduct, which every one of the 1 million or so spectators who line the Tour De France route each year must sign?

The woman in stage 1 came up with (what seemed to her to be) a clever way to get a live TV shoutout to her grandparents. I'm not aware if anyone ever showed her a "En Regardant Le Tour a Cote de la Route" handbook, saying "if you have a sign, please make sure to not encroach onto the road, before, during, or after the arrival of the cyclists, until the whole Tour caravan has passed."

In all the significant Pub caravan that goes before the Tour, is there/should there be a portion of it devoted to rider safety? "Keep your obstructions out of the road. Don't be like this guy!"

 

[DanielSong39]

I mean, some things are just common sense and you can't give a forearm shiver to a cyclist traveling at 50km/h. That's a traffic violation in any civilized country.

 

[Netserk]

Are these rules written down somewhere? Is there a code of conduct, which every one of the 1 million or so spectators who line the Tour De France route each year must sign?

The woman in stage 1 came up with (what seemed to her to be) a clever way to get a live TV shoutout to her grandparents. I'm not aware if anyone ever showed her a "En Regardant Le Tour a Cote de la Route" handbook, saying "if you have a sign, please make sure to not encroach onto the road, before, during, or after the arrival of the cyclists, until the whole Tour caravan has passed."

In all the significant Pub caravan that goes before the Tour, is there/should there be a portion of it devoted to rider safety? "Keep your obstructions out of the road. Don't be like this guy!"

It's the convention for good spectating. Pretty much all (sensible) experienced spectators know how to behave. If you haven't tried it before, I think it's common sense to either step back and watch how the rest behaves, or ask other people there for advice.

 

[Leinster]

It's the convention for good spectating. Pretty much all (sensible) experienced spectators know how to behave. If you haven't tried it before, I think it's common sense to either step back and watch how the rest behaves, or ask other people there for advice.

And who's to say she hadn't been to a Tour before? She lives in France (presumably) and her grandparents (apparently) watch the Tour on tv.

 

[Netserk]

And who's to say she hadn't been to a Tour before? She lives in France (presumably) and her grandparents (apparently) watch the Tour on tv.

Then she knowingly broke the rules for how to behave. Only right then to have her appear in court.

 

[Leinster]

Then she knowingly broke the rules for how to behave. Only right then to have her appear in court.

So this "Convention for good spectating" you speak of. The text of this is available online? Is it a UCI document, or a universal one that applies to all sports, presumably through the IOC?

 

[Netserk]

Convention
noun (CUSTOM)
C1 [ C or U ]
a usual or accepted way of behaving, especially in social situations, often following an old way of thinking or a custom in one particular society:

They defied/flouted/broke with convention by giving up their jobs and becoming self-sufficient.
Convention dictates that it is the man who asks the woman to marry him and not the other way round.
In many countries it is the/a convention to wear black at funerals.

 

[jmdirt]

That sounds more like actual torture.

Just a mild, uncomfortable heads up!

Holes in bike tires...that's torture!

 

[Netserk]

So this "Convention for good spectating" you speak of. The text of this is available online? Is it a UCI document, or a universal one that applies to all sports, presumably through the IOC?

It's also not written in any official document that you are not allowed to show up for a wedding or funeral naked. Or interrupt all speeches there by blowing a whistle.

 

[jmdirt]

Are these rules written down somewhere? Is there a code of conduct, which every one of the 1 million or so spectators who line the Tour De France route each year must sign?

The woman in stage 1 came up with (what seemed to her to be) a clever way to get a live TV shoutout to her grandparents. I'm not aware if anyone ever showed her a "En Regardant Le Tour a Cote de la Route" handbook, saying "if you have a sign, please make sure to not encroach onto the road, before, during, or after the arrival of the cyclists, until the whole Tour caravan has passed."

In all the significant Pub caravan that goes before the Tour, is there/should there be a portion of it devoted to rider safety? "Keep your obstructions out of the road. Don't be like this guy!"

Ah, you come from the 'everybody is special/should get a trophy/ribbon/A' school of thought.

 

[Leinster]

Ah, you come from the 'everybody is special/should get a trophy/ribbon/A' school of thought.

She holds the sign 3' to her right, and Martin (and the whole peloton) breeze past, her grandparents see her on tv, and nobody else ever gives a ***. So if only someone had been there to tell her "Holding up a sign is ok, as long as it doesn't hang over the road." Maybe she thought the cardboard would bend like a mudflap, I dunno. I did say "seemed to her," and clearly she (and whoever she may or may not have discussed with beforehand) hadn't thought it all the way through.

 

[Netserk]

She holds the sign 3' to her right, and Martin (and the whole peloton) breeze past, her grandparents see her on tv, and nobody else ever gives a ***. So if only someone had been there to tell her "Holding up a sign is ok, as long as it doesn't hang over the road." Maybe she thought the cardboard would bend like a mudflap, I dunno. I did say "seemed to her," and clearly she (and whoever she may or may not have discussed with beforehand) hadn't thought it all the way through.

She still steps onto the road (with her back to the riders) immediately before the peloton gets to her.

 

[CyclistAbi]

We are talking about a specific thing: standing in the road as the peloton is coming by and causing a crash. So no I haven't and wouldn't do that.

You present this like woman woke up in the morning and said omi and opi i am going to the Tour to crash the peloton. In that case i would agree with you. As for you saying you wouldn't cause an accident. That is why it is called an accident. Isn't it? It's not like you would get a confirmation box Yes or No and you would get to choose. And there is no chance you would wave a flag or extend an arm? And for somehow a rider to get caught in it? There are literary thousands of fans doing exactly that on each stage.

Anyway. All the peopel in this thread claiming on how making this woman an example would improve safety in the peloton. It would do jack *** for improving the safety in the peloton.

 

[Cookster15]

This is extremely short (and one) sighted view of the whole situation. The other extreme being she should organise a fund raiser to cash in her newly established fame.

In short this woman is not to blame for all of the world problems.

Where did I say that? My point of view is clear. She is responsible for causing a crash that could have been tragic due to her own negligence. In fact it has caused at least one rider potential loss of income. People have been sued for negligence for less careless actions. Fund raiser comment is irrelevant.

 

[Cookster15]

Anyway. All the peopel in this thread claiming on how making this woman an example would improve safety in the peloton. It would do jack *** for improving the safety in the peloton.

That’s your opinion and you are wrong. It’s a real pity the UCI backed down.

 

[jmdirt]

You present this like woman woke up in the morning and said omi and opi i am going to the Tour to crash the peloton. In that case i would agree with you. As for you saying you wouldn't cause an accident. That is why it is called an accident. Isn't it? It's not like you would get a confirmation box Yes or No and you would get to choose. And there is no chance you would wave a flag or extend an arm? And for somehow a rider to get caught in it? There are literary thousands of fans doing exactly that on each stage.

Anyway. All the peopel in this thread claiming on how making this woman an example would improve safety in the peloton. It would do jack *** for improving the safety in the peloton.

I disagree. If idiots regularly got tickets for this type of thing it would happen less. Would it completely stop idiots (especially under the influence of fun juice) from doing idiotic things? Of course not.

It goes back to the speeding ticket example offered a few days ago (sorry I forgot by who): I can't speak for others, but the only reason that I don't speed on my motorcycle is because I don't want to get a ticket and the eventual high insurance rates. I can safely travel much faster than posted speeds (I'm obviously talking about twisty canyon roads not downtown streets/residential roads). IMO, many people at cycling events would 'think about it' if they knew that they could get a ticket.

 

[DanielSong39]

The woman in question is out 1500 Euros so she did get a ticket.

Hopefully it serves as a deterrent for others in the future.

 

[Kaptain Kool]

It's also not written in any official document that you are not allowed to show up for a wedding or funeral naked. Or interrupt all speeches there by blowing a whistle.

There are definitely places where being naked in public is a misdemeanor.
Just blowing a whistle wouldn't result in fine or lawsuit. One would probably asked to leave and things could potentially escalate from there but the whistle itself wouldn't have legal consequences.

 

[the delgados]

I keep hearing from professional riders that racing has become more dangerous but not in comparison to any other eras. Also, the same riders I've heard from haven't come up with any specific proposals. I do not mean to come across as dismissive or uncaring in any way -- I never like to see a rider hit the deck; I know what it feels like -- but the argument seems abstract.

Consider, for instance that helmets were relatively recently made mandatory. Can anyone here imagine joining a weekend group-ride, never mind a professional bike race without wearing a helmet?

The issue of barriers in sprint stages have finally been addressed at the end of sprint stages after way too many riders clipped a barrier that sticks out into the road and ends up in the hospital.

Speeds have increased for many reasons, some of which need not be discussed here (I don't want to get suspended). But if you take a look at footage from, say the 60's, you'll see riders crawling up a hill with shoulders rolling from side to side because a) their bikes weighed a ton; and b) their gear ratios were much different.

Race radios no doubt play a difference in the amount of crashes. Think about the difference in the amount of riders who are hearing their director yelling in their ear to reach a certain point in the course compared to before. Now you must have a stampede of at least 150 riders trying to reach the Arrenberg (sp?) Forest before everyone else compared to decades ago.

Regarding crowd control, I'm happy that TDF organizers put away their pitchforks and didn't pursue the matter regarding the stage 1 sign carrier any further. The point was made, and unless she is a total psychopath, I'm sure she is completely mortified. There is no need to make her clean bikes or serve time of pay fines or whatever kooky ideas people have come up with.
We can all be rest assured that she will not do it again.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@jmdirt

Speeding ticket is still a rather common thing, though? Do we really want to have just an impression of increased safety. Like saying we have done enough, by writing some tickets. Peloton still crashing due to fan involved incidents.

@Cookster15

Obviously i could be wrong but i don't feel i am on this one.

All

Why the double standards? Why are you going on about some woman for days. Feeling you are entitled to have a say in this matter or that it affected you in any meaningful way. People involved will get sorted it out. And none of you even remotely blamed ASO for messing up at the end of the stage 3. Some even had the nerve to defend it. This is the area where safety related incidents can really start to drop if people involved will do their job.

Suck it up and move on.

 

[RedheadDane]

And none of you even remotely blamed ASO for messing up at the end of the stage 3. Some even had the nerve to defend it.

Didn't we establish several days ago that ASO had in fact agreed with the rider request of taking the time at 5-K-to-go. but UCI - which is above ASO in term of "rank" - denied the request.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Didn't we establish several days ago that ASO had in fact agreed with the rider request of taking the time at 5-K-to-go. but UCI - which is above ASO in term of "rank" - denied the request.

ASO is the race organiser and as such responsible for rider safety, not UCI. Unless laws in France are that much different that organiser isn't responsible for event safety. I very much doubt that but feel free to correct me.

When ASO agreed safety is insufficient and additional safety measures should be implemented. And when they after backed out and sent riders on the road without implementing the agreed upon safety measures.

That made them liable. But lets forget about law. That made the peloton crash. Just like that woman did.

 

[RedheadDane]

ASO is the race organiser and as such responsible for rider safety, not UCI. Unless laws in France are that much different that organiser isn't responsible for event safety. I very much doubt that but feel free to correct me.

When ASO agreed safety is insufficient and additional safety measures should be implemented. And when they after backed out and sent riders on the road without implementing the agreed upon safety measures.

That made them liable. But lets forget about law. That made the peloton crash. Just like that woman did.

UCI governs all of cycling. They are the ultimate authority!

 

[CyclistAbi]

UCI governs all of cycling. They are the ultimate authority!

No such authority is above local law.