Crazy Grand Tour stages you would like to see

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Apr 3, 2011
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biathlon inspiration

How about some shooting on the mid-stage mountain tops? Say, 5 shots, 30 sec per miss. Or something more creative, like give them paintball guns during downhill sections, plenty of time, nothing to do :). Flat boring stages would profit even more - e.g. one minute down per hit on your jersey, quite some incentive for a break, would also work as a vote for most unpopular mug of the peloton (Uniballer would not win more than 2 tours this way).
 
Ferminal said:
Mountain descent ITT/TTT FTW.

Or an ITT up and down a big mountain pass (imagine Tourmalet or Mortirolo).

Cobbled/Dirt Road ITT/TTT
all great ideas just what i was going to say. Introduce the ''sprinters challenge'' too. Seperate top 10 on Gc and have them race just against each other. Whatever time you gain double it, to entice them to attack.

Make them do a bit of cyclocross in it. Jks
 
The problem is, who is a sprinter? Was Paolo Bettini eligible for it? Should Rojas or Freire be? van Avermaet was a sprinter (or so he said) back in '08 but he clearly isn't anymore. Is Sagan a sprinter? Valverde even - I mean, he's won bunch gallops...
 
Feb 15, 2011
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Libertine Seguros said:
The problem is, who is a sprinter? Was Paolo Bettini eligible for it? Should Rojas or Freire be? van Avermaet was a sprinter (or so he said) back in '08 but he clearly isn't anymore. Is Sagan a sprinter? Valverde even - I mean, he's won bunch gallops...
Not really sure why you're including Freire. What's the point? He's pretty good on the hills, but he's still a sprinter.
 
Libertine Seguros said:
Patterned after the wintersports, however, I most definitely would NOT enforce a no-drafting rule. In the Nordic Combined, for example, part of the fun is seeing the likes of Gottwald and Kokslien having to work together to pull back a Lamy Chappuis or a Frenzel who has made their gains on the jump. In a long GT this will likely be irrelevant because of the gaps being larger, only that it takes all the late-goers completely out of their willingness to compete as they have to go it all alone and the crowds have likely cleared off - in essence turning all but the top 20 into the few stragglers in your average road stage, with the broomwagon at their back wheel. And if you don't let everybody start, they haven't finished the GT, so although they may officially be recorded as having done so they don't get the satisfaction. However, in a short stage race, especially one where you get a few riders on the same time (as happens not infrequently in the Nordic disciplines), it could be very interesting. For example, a TDU Willunga loop - should the likes of Greipel drop back and wait for teammates and try to have a sprint? Do you work together with your GC opponents to hold back those better climbers and ITT riders in the chasing pack behind you? Cameron Meyer, for example, would have to TT to victory had this happened in 2011 - but in order to get any help to chase him down the sprinters would have to sacrifice giving him a quite hefty headstart. And with the GC on the line, attacks like Evans/Valverde/Sánchez/Sagan on Willunga could have been helped immeasurably by Greipel having to wait an extra 30 seconds or so before help even arrived.
Fully agree. Not sure if it would work in cycling anyway, but if they were to try, it would be better as a road race, on road bikes, with drafting allowed. All sorts of possibilities and tactics, who waits for who, who goes all out to try to bridge right away, etc.

Also, of course, there's the question of how this final lap should look, length, profile, etc. Not sure what would best, but I'm beginning to think it might be worth considering.
 
boomcie said:
Not really sure why you're including Freire. What's the point? He's pretty good on the hills, but he's still a sprinter.
Yes, Freire's a sprinter. My point is, where is the line drawn? Where do you stop being a sprinter? Freire and Rojas are definitely sprinters in my mind, but Bettini and Sagan definitely aren't. But that's an arbitrary position in my mind - the stage Rojas was 2nd in in the Tour de Suisse last year from a breakaway in which he was one of the strongest on the hills was certainly as tough as anything Sagan has won to date (possibly excepting Big Bear), yet I consider Rojas a sprinter and not Sagan. Freire has been 3rd on a Tourmalet stage. Hell, Abdou once won a mountain stage from a breakaway. Even Cavendish won a stage over tougher terrain than almost all of Sagan's wins, yet Sagan isn't a sprinter in my book.

This is the problem with any competition that isn't available to everybody. Unless you have a clear geographic or age divide (best young rider, best French rider or regional rider at various small races), once you're drawing ability-based divides they're purely arbitrary.

Do you make it inclusive (i.e. include anybody who has top 5ed a bunch sprint in a stage race or flat one-day race) and then include people like Valverde who obviously isn't a sprinter and would walk such a competition? Or do you make it exclusive (e.g. eliminate anybody who has top 5ed mountain stages or never top 5ed a bunch sprint) and eliminate the likes of Freire and Abdou from contention?
 
Feb 15, 2011
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Libertine Seguros said:
Yes, Freire's a sprinter. My point is, where is the line drawn? Where do you stop being a sprinter? Freire and Rojas are definitely sprinters in my mind, but Bettini and Sagan definitely aren't. But that's an arbitrary position in my mind - the stage Rojas was 2nd in in the Tour de Suisse last year from a breakaway in which he was one of the strongest on the hills was certainly as tough as anything Sagan has won to date (possibly excepting Big Bear), yet I consider Rojas a sprinter and not Sagan. Freire has been 3rd on a Tourmalet stage. Hell, Abdou once won a mountain stage from a breakaway. Even Cavendish won a stage over tougher terrain than almost all of Sagan's wins, yet Sagan isn't a sprinter in my book.

This is the problem with any competition that isn't available to everybody. Unless you have a clear geographic or age divide (best young rider, best French rider or regional rider at various small races), once you're drawing ability-based divides they're purely arbitrary.

Do you make it inclusive (i.e. include anybody who has top 5ed a bunch sprint in a stage race or flat one-day race) and then include people like Valverde who obviously isn't a sprinter and would walk such a competition? Or do you make it exclusive (e.g. eliminate anybody who has top 5ed mountain stages or never top 5ed a bunch sprint) and eliminate the likes of Freire and Abdou from contention?
I'd just use your book to decide who's in and who's out. :)
The sprinter's bible.

You're right though, the idea impossible to realise.
 
Libertine Seguros said:
Yes, Freire's a sprinter. My point is, where is the line drawn? Where do you stop being a sprinter? Freire and Rojas are definitely sprinters in my mind, but Bettini and Sagan definitely aren't. But that's an arbitrary position in my mind - the stage Rojas was 2nd in in the Tour de Suisse last year from a breakaway in which he was one of the strongest on the hills was certainly as tough as anything Sagan has won to date (possibly excepting Big Bear), yet I consider Rojas a sprinter and not Sagan. Freire has been 3rd on a Tourmalet stage. Hell, Abdou once won a mountain stage from a breakaway. Even Cavendish won a stage over tougher terrain than almost all of Sagan's wins, yet Sagan isn't a sprinter in my book.

This is the problem with any competition that isn't available to everybody. Unless you have a clear geographic or age divide (best young rider, best French rider or regional rider at various small races), once you're drawing ability-based divides they're purely arbitrary.

Do you make it inclusive (i.e. include anybody who has top 5ed a bunch sprint in a stage race or flat one-day race) and then include people like Valverde who obviously isn't a sprinter and would walk such a competition? Or do you make it exclusive (e.g. eliminate anybody who has top 5ed mountain stages or never top 5ed a bunch sprint) and eliminate the likes of Freire and Abdou from contention?
Read the article on CN, how they are going to invite attacking riders.

But i throw that idea out. I think a stage where top 10 GC all race against each other on their own would be cool. You entice them to attack by giving them double the time they gain. Also maybe include all the classics in a week period, they have to do the classic routes, then ride through the countries to reach the next classic. I think that would be a sick GT. Not feasible though of course.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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a ITT where the riders get to use motorpacing, having their DS on a bike in front of them shouting through a megaphone
 
Feb 24, 2011
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jens_attacks said:
when i read some of those ideas,i'm happy that uci is governing this sport...
I do agree. Anyways, I shall add another great idea: Cycling in a tutu. Bonus seconds to the flashiest ones. :rolleyes:

 

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