Critérium du Dauphiné 2024, June 2 - 9

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You could also just link the original article, it isn't behind a paywall and you don't support a clickbait website that just steals content.

https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20240606_95107745

Quite funny though that Lefevere said the opposite to Sporza in front of the camera. Well opposite is a strong world but he just said that the TT was the real test and in the mountains they would wait and see.

interestingly, the article is basically a one-to-one transcription of his interview with Flobikes - apart from the final paragraph about their goals:

View: https://youtu.be/BzKv6Kh7Jgg?t=593


but maybe there were some follow-up questions by ITV.

 

[Sciatic]

What is this intense pressure from DS'? Sounds like BS to me. You think that was happening today?

You’re not really suggesting that? DS’s are not different from coaches/managers in many other sports who feel the need to inject themselves into the action to justify their existence. Give them an opportunity to assume more control—or in this case handed a giant loudspeaker that is the race radio—they will take it.

 

[Lequack]

Lanterne rouge

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LC0XJ3m0HY

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Just bumped in and think I have to catch up! Missed today's stage, but just read news about big crash and another headline about Kruijswijk and van Baarle not being able to attend Le Tour!?!! Quite a setback for Visma!

Edit: So once again missed a race/stage with huge crash severely affecting riders, Dwaars door Vlaanderen, Itzulia stage, etc.
Think ignorant me just have to continue watching bike races with blue eyes and positive vibes...

 

[Sciatic]

Verona always writes a bit about the stages on Strava, and also today (google translated from Spanish):

"The truth is that I don't know what happened, personally in the first of the three descents today, I have already seen that the ground was much more slippery than usual, since I started with "dry" pressure in both wheels, and Right at the start I decided to deflate the front wheel a little but not the rear one since normally there are never grip problems on this one... but on that first descent, the rear wheel did a couple of strange things on me and I had to leave it alone. to the AG2R rider I was racing with because I felt completely out of my comfort zone.

Later we heard on the radio that in the escape a rider had fallen, that two motorcycles from the organization had also fallen, and on the second of the three descents I led the peloton as slowly as possible to try to reduce tension in the group and that the teams in the general classification saw that we only and exclusively wanted to compete in the sprint, but in the last descent and only 20km to the finish line, we all wanted to be in front even though my intention was the same as in the previous descent, and although I managed to stay at the head of the pack, we all wanted to be there, no one wanted to lose a weather to be ahead and the way the road was today, the last thing we could do was brake... but we didn't all get on the road, we have passed the first five and Then some team will have wanted to speed up the braking to gain positions and ciao... a millisecond that changes everything, and what could have been a day of great teamwork has ended up being a day of resignation and satisfaction for being all on our bikes. ."

Stage 5, Dauphiné, 🇫🇷 | Strava

Hola a tod@s!! Hoy hemos disputado uno de los días más extraños de mis 14 años como ciclista profesional. Creo que nunca - si no me falla la memoria - he sido de partida en una carrera que se haya tenido que anular por falta de ambulancias producto de una caída masiva. Como precisamente os...

www.strava.com

Very interesting about the motos going down as well.

 

[Brullnux]

And people have to realise that bike racing is a competition, not a Sunday family trip.

But they've clearly not been judging risk well whatsoever this season. It's a competition, but it's a year long competition, and fighting for position on an extremely wet descent on Stage 5 of the Criterium du Dauphine jeopardises the rest of your season. They need to re-calibrate the level of risk they're willingly taking on, because it is harming them at a competitive level.

 

[Nick2413]

Evenepoel with a pretty good comment:

“ all this pressure at the front when we go downhill? Why does everyone want faster and faster bikes with faster tires and less grip? There are many whys, but no answers."

These are the main actionable points but the industry is obsessed with making bikes as fast as possible (understandable) and it’s hard to change human behavior/instinct. Maybe there are solutions, or maybe not.

 

[zlev11]

You know what's amazing? That Armstrong dude never had a crash in any of the 7 TdFs he stole. I hardly remember that guy ever crashing period.

he crashed once, 2002 in the first week

edit: and oh yeah on Luz Ardiden in 2003 but i dont really count that one

 

[Unchained]

Very interesting about the motos going down as well.

There are additional dynamics with the motorcycles the casing on tires in way harder and when you are going at slow speeds the tires are pretty hard, contact patch is much bigger than a bicycle tire but if you are hydroplaning even a tiny bit and let off on the throttle instead of pulling in the clutch the small amount of resistance from the engine will send you spinning, it's all 100% luck once you have no control w no contact patch, your only hope is that the gyroscope effect from the wheels is in a straight plane keeping you upright. When it happens you feel hopeless immediately!! And if you stay up you need to change your underwear and your pulse is 200 and you are in shock.
I crashed w a camera man on the back at @30-35 miles per hour, he was sitting backwards and a truck had passed and leaked sand for about 100+ meters on the straight road and a corner, slightly off camber.. Broke mirror, bent handlebars, ruined aluminum side case and neither one of us was injured, I had tiny road rash on one leg. I was shaking from shock for @20 minutes.. And once your adrenaline subsides it really hits you.
When I see people sliding like most of the video shows that's encouraging, sliding is way better than hitting something

 

[King Of The Wolds]

But they've clearly not been judging risk well whatsoever this season. It's a competition, but it's a year long competition, and fighting for position on an extremely wet descent on Stage 5 of the Criterium du Dauphine jeopardises the rest of your season. They need to re-calibrate the level of risk they're willingly taking on, because it is harming them at a competitive level.

So the UCI put you in charge of resolving this problem. What's your solution? Just tell the riders to re-calibrate their risk level? Why didn't I think of that.

 

[Sciatic]

There are additional dynamics with the motorcycles the casing on tires in way harder and when you are going at slow speeds the tires are pretty hard, contact patch is much bigger than a bicycle tire but if you are hydroplaning even a tiny bit and let off on the throttle instead of pulling in the clutch the small amount of resistance from the engine will send you spinning, it's all 100% luck once you have no control w no contact patch, your only hope is that the gyroscope effect from the wheels is in a straight plane keeping you upright. When it happens you feel hopeless immediately!! And if you stay up you need to change your underwear and your pulse is 200 and you are in shock.
I crashed w a camera man on the back at @30-35 miles per hour, he was sitting backwards and a truck had passed and leaked sand for about 100+ meters on the straight road and a corner, slightly off camber.. Broke mirror, bent handlebars, ruined aluminum side case and neither one of us was injured, I had tiny road rash on one leg. I was shaking from shock for @20 minutes.. And once your adrenaline subsides it really hits you.
When I see people sliding like most of the video shows that's encouraging, sliding is way better than hitting something

Thanks for the insight—that was hard-earned for you!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

You could also just link the original article, it isn't behind a paywall and you don't support a clickbait website that just steals content.

https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20240606_95107745

Quite funny though that Lefevere said the opposite to Sporza in front of the camera. Well opposite is a strong world but he just said that the TT was the real test and in the mountains they would wait and see.

Something seems to be off here.
Those statements make little sense. We came to win, and test the TT. Now we have to fight and see what his form is in the mountains... Either the winning relates to the TT alone, or the transcript is missing context. Because i doubt you would come to win GC, when you have no idea what his form will be uphill.

Edit: lol, this is simply taken from the Sporza interview! The only problem is the guy from HNB doesn't speak Lefeverish and took "we zijn NIET gekomen om te winnen" for "we zijn HIER gekomen om te winnen".

Classic Evenepoel.

 

[Unchained]

You know what's amazing? That Armstrong dude never had a crash in any of the 7 TdFs he stole. I hardly remember that guy ever crashing period.

Wow.. Didn't know there was a pharmacological angle for bike,handling, positioning and staying upright!! Learn something new all the time. Maybe here's another angle on the entire Chris Horner controversy.. He couldn't stay up and probably had someone break his collarbone if it wasn't broken..
Can't wait for the daily weekly clash between the opinion of Bobke and Christian VandeVelde!!
No matter what Christian says Capt Butterfly will say he is a knucklehead and doesn't know what the f-ck he is talking about. I don't get full satisfaction because I don't watch races on Peacock.. Wish I had it!! Can't wait for NBC tour opinions and Horner hammering all the lack of knowledge from NBC experts!!
There is always something strange in bike racing, when caravan and cops, many on motorcycles travel exactly the same race route, minutes in front of bikes and motos with cameras, race refs and others.. And the first bunch don't have a wreck
Bend is beautiful!!

 

[Brullnux]

So the UCI put you in charge of resolving this problem. What's your solution? Just tell the riders to re-calibrate their risk level? Why didn't I think of that.

Your snark doesn't really change the fact it appears to be true – riders are taking too many risks for their own good, including in terms of their competitiveness. It seems that they're fighting for position in every race a lot more than they used to be, even when there isn't (seemingly) much at stake. I'm not sure there's much for the UCI to do, anyway. Take away UCI points, so less emphasis is placed on each and every single race? Keep them, but reduce their importance? It's hard to say without understanding why it is riders keep taking more risks. But to dismiss it as "it's a competition" is wrong – riders are misjudging it.

 

[ingsve]

They could've rode slowly, keeping distance between each other, not fighting for positions,

Well, when some riders are more than capable of handing fighting for positions it is a tactical advantage for them to do so because if others take it slow then it's an opportunity to gain an advantage. It not the responsibility of the people who can handle the conditions to cater to the riders who can't.

 

[Elos Anjos]

You can't change riders behavior without addressing the bicycles, the tires, the brakes. You don't change behavior by appealing to riders to slow down.

Likewise, urban policies addressing traffic accidents are more effective if they don't appeal to driver's awareness but instead just install speed bumps everywhere. Drivers will behave accordingly.

 

[Unchained]

This is me every time I hear Phil Liggett open his mouth.

Can you post a list of the people at NBC that don't make you throw up in your mouth!! If anything goes down at Christian's crib cops are coming to your house ( lol)

 

[Unchained]

WT? "with disc brakes"?

Brakes of any kind are what caused the crashing, including engine braking from the motorcycle, which is as subtle as just letting off the throttle. Cars and trucks are much different because of weight, suspension, increase in mass( gravity) once you change the plane of a 700c wheel that's rotating that fast , the tiny tire traction mixed with old Mr. Gyroscope says you are taking a gravel nap!! Just the tiniest of changes in body position or touching, even thinking of touching the brakes you are going down. It's like F1, or moto GP, you need to shed all your speed before doing anything with your contact surfaces.. So you coast through turn or maneuver and accelerate only after everything is pointed straight, on a bicycle you can often absolutely jam on the brakes going straight and have little problems, add a film of water and do the same thing and you are on the deck. Amateur or pro most people spend majority of time developing norms for how the machine acts in dry conditions. Add water and everything is different, especially when you choose to apply, or here should not have applied the brakes.
I am waiting to see if the dog did it angle expands

 

[Unchained]

Your snark doesn't really change the fact it appears to be true – riders are taking too many risks for their own good, including in terms of their competitiveness. It seems that they're fighting for position in every race a lot more than they used to be, even when there isn't (seemingly) much at stake. I'm not sure there's much for the UCI to do, anyway. Take away UCI points, so less emphasis is placed on each and every single race? Keep them, but reduce their importance? It's hard to say without understanding why it is riders keep taking more risks. But to dismiss it as "it's a competition" is wrong – riders are misjudging it.

I feel exactly the opposite. Using anything that MvdP or Pogacar have participated in this season. Riders taking way fewer risks in my opinion and have seen almost no do or die moves or anything similar to outlawed Sagan super tuck decent position.. Or some of the no handed antics when riders do some kind of aero bar elbow rest thing that was popular for a few seasons.. You remember, the aerobar position with no bars and control the bike, no brakes using your elbows. And all this stuff is not so binary, w black and white causes and easily determining fault. Bunch of factors!!
One thing I know for absolutely universally accepted.. The UCI could be fault and is not part of any solution. UCI is a bag of sand as you are trying to swim across a raging river!! Completely useless!!

 

[pelotonIQ]

WT? "with disc brakes"?

Whats your point?

 

[Unchained]

Whats your point?

I will make some popcorn for anything definitive about which brake types are better for raining or after rain conditions!!
Used both and I have not ridden medium to high end Campy or Sram in rainy or really wet conditions but I can say from my personal dats set that Ultegra and DuraAce rim and disc brakes have worked flawless in zero visibility raining and riding w tons of standing water on the ground!!

 

[Hugh Januss]

Agree with all if that. The only solution I can think of is 35mm tyres. Anyone got anything else which is easily implemented? Not sure how much more I want to watch. I'm a hardcore fan, but I've had enough of watching young men crash and brake bones at high speed.

Break bones, brake is what they should have done, break is what they did.

 

[pelotonIQ]

I will make some popcorn for anything definitive about which brake types are better for raining or after rain conditions!!
Used both and I have not ridden medium to high end Campy or Sram in rainy or really wet conditions but I can say from my personal dats set that Ultegra and DuraAce rim and disc brakes have worked flawless in zero visibility raining and riding w tons of standing water on the ground!!

At the same speeds as the guys that crashed?

 

[Unchained]

At the same speeds as the guys that crashed?

Yes and faster, I was outside of Tucson in an out and back ride going up Mt Lemon sky opened up. Been on Mt .Palomar and on Banner Grade in similar conditions, big difference was I didn't need to get a wheel. If you get gapped in a pro race,rain or no rain, get crushed in a cross wind and you lose contact your day is over, maybe your race if you miss the time cut.
Me riding around with friends and giving each other distance and a huge difference.. Designated regrouping points.... In bike racing it's opposite, if someone loses contact with you they don't want to see you again, that the goal. So bike is the same, speeds, conditions are the same, difference is drafting, tailgating in the rain on purpose as a point of survival. Nothing Remco or Roglic can be taken seriously, because both riders are never scared, never go to a race, sun,rain, whatever, they are never thinking that they are getting dropped. Lots of these guys are holding on for dear life.
I have zero idea how a race or the UCI could come up with some safe following distance rules when conditions turn to schit. I know for sure that if I am some water carrying grunt and it's pouring, I am keeping the wheel in front of me and willing to follow a little close to make it, make next selection.
I consider myself a below average bike handler and my main point is equipment has little or nothing to do with these situations, surprised not to hear some tin foil talking about hookless rims before people hit the pavement, people were still midair as disc brakes were the cause!!

 

[jmdirt]

Whats your point?

That yours is .