Critérium du Dauphiné 2024, June 2 - 9

[Sciatic]

Figure of speech, though apparently it's not entirely impossible to do, just have to be going at higher speeds.

Since ice skating is aquaplaning between the blade and the ice, seems like it’s possible to happen on a bike (yes I realize the physical dynamic between rubber and pavement is different than skate and ice).

 

[Netserk]

From the race jury

That's Kruijswijk out for a while.

 

[jmdirt]

This. If I was a sponsor at this point there is no universe in which I would invest dollars in this nonsense. You invest in what looks like a great team and overnight half of it is gone, for whatever reason. I don't know if the riders are just riding like crazy maniacs or what the hell the problem is, but as AAC said it's just killing it. You've got the reigning TdF champ still questionable and 2 out of the 3 other biggest Tour contenders just centimeters away from being out again after already returning from big crashes. Not to mention Tao G. Hart, Bernal, Hindley, WVA, and on and on, it seems like it's every time you turn around now.

I know it's a dangerous sport, I've been a serious cycling fan since 1983, I get it. But unless I am suffering from a severe case of recency bias I have never seen it like this, and I don't know about anyone else here but I'm ready to move on. There are other sports I love to watch which aren't the equivalent of a rolling meat grinder. Jeezus.

IMO, all pro sports are this way, rolling meat grinders. (ie: look at how many NFL teams have their star QB out for a few games and/or the rest of the season completely changing the fortunes of that team. NBA, NHL, similar. Three big stars out of MX right now with two others injured...).

I do think that there are more crashes now, but its not as dramatic of an increase as many are making it out to be. If I had to point to just one factor, its because all of the riders are so 'strong' now, everyone is flying (more guys going faster in the same space on the same old roads).

I hate to see any crashes, let alone ones that take out our 'favorites', but move on? To what? We just had a great spring of racing with big guns winning a lot, with a few surprises sprinkled in...I'm staying.

 

[jmdirt]

You know what's amazing? That Armstrong dude never had a crash in any of the 7 TdFs he stole. I hardly remember that guy ever crashing period.

...and very few 'mechanicals' (bikes issues, flats...) Good planning.

FYI: he did get snagged by a fans bag and hit the ground one time that I remember.

 

[jmdirt]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1798722152763633671

View: https://x.com/keyshawn__bava/status/1798722152763633671

F!

 

[rm2021]

F!

They were to fast, just like in Basque country.

 

[kingjr]

I guess the assumption would be that when riders-teams are fighting for position at the front, it speeds up the entire peloton behind regardless of the danger (see the dash into Arenberg for example) and since riders behind them don’t want to let a gap go out, they speed up as well.

At race junctures like heading into a cobbled sector or entering a sprint finish it has probably always been this way, and it’s natural for riders to so.
But it’s a separate problem when at fairly insignificant points (particularly in lesser races) DS’s are telling/yelling at their riders to be at the front, let’s say like the descent in the Basque race. It’s not so much that modern technologies (hardly modern anymore) like race radios cause problems. But they do allow certain problems to get magnified. The problem being that in most cases when a DS, or manager, or coach in whatever sport can take more control over the race/game/match they will do so. Given the opportunity to insert themselves into the race dynamics by constantly telling riders what to do, they will use every opportunity.

There aren’t many Phil Jackson’s who will establish agame plan but then sit back and let it play out. Of course, he had the advantage of players directed the action on the court.

Yeah, I've made the same argument in the past. But I think, in this particular instance, this crash basically happens in any scenario. It was just a really nasty bit of road.

 

[Didinho]

Lefevere said they warned the teams beforehand for this descent. Seeing how they were flying on the video, just insane. No one but the riders to blame.

 

[jmdirt]

You can't aquaplane on a bike.

Slick surface, someone touches a white line & loses grip & everyone crashes out of sympathy (or rather slamming on the brakes/sudden rapid handlebar movements in a low grip environment is what does it)

aquaplane=to slide uncontrollably on a wet surface (from Oxford). So by that definition you can.

Maybe you are looking for a discussion/analysis of the coefficient of friction?

 

[Volderke]

Here is some footage:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1798734260641358230

View: https://x.com/LeGruppetto/status/1798734260641358230

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

But we know they did, as that was what Evenepoel said afterwards.

Its not like he doesnt have a long history, despite his relatively short career, of spewing all sorts of gibberish post race and later apologizing/walking back, doesnt mean its the case here idk. Just saying

Evenepoel said the exact opposite. "We waren niet echt aan het vechten voor de eerste posities, maar als iemand wegglijdt gaat het snel."
> We weren't really fighting for the front positions, but when someone slides away, things can go fast.

Someone around 5th position clipped a rear wheel and went down. He tried to avoid the riders in front of him, and thought he was succeeding, until someone slid in front of him and he had no more space to go. He flipped over.

 

[Hugh Januss]

If I remember correctly, as Phil Liggett so eloquently stated, it was his superior bike handling skills that were developed racing cyclocross in the off season. 😉

I saw Armstrong race cyclocross he was like a moose on skates.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

If I remember correctly, as Phil Liggett so eloquently stated, it was his superior bike handling skills that were developed racing cyclocross in the off season. 😉

This is me every time I hear Phil Liggett open his mouth.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Since ice skating is aquaplaning between the blade and the ice, seems like it’s possible to happen on a bike (yes I realize the physical dynamic between rubber and pavement is different than skate and ice).

Try skating on dull blades.

 

[Sciatic]

Yeah, I've made the same argument in the past. But I think, in this particular instance, this crash basically happens in any scenario. It was just a really nasty bit of road.

Good point

 

[Sciatic]

Try skating on dull blades.

 

[RedheadDane]

Mads P being interviewed after the stage:

Yes, that's a rubber duck he's holding.
Why does he have a rubber duck?
He's in a bath...

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Mads P being interviewed after the stage:

Yes, that's a rubber duck he's holding.
Why does he have a rubber duck?
He's in a bath...

Rubber Ducks are part of EU safety regulations for bathtubs of all forms! Are you telling us you don't have a rubber duck? How do you even gather the courage to bathe than? Madness!

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Lefevere said they warned the teams beforehand for this descent. Seeing how they were flying on the video, just insane. No one but the riders to blame.

That's not how racing works. You expect all 170 riders to agree with each other to go slow done the descent and wait for each other at the bottom, despite, no doubt, intense pressure from DS's to try to gain a racing advantage? You only need a couple of those 170 riders to try to gain an advantage, and the rest have to follow. Everybody has got quicker, bikes have got quicker, pressure has increased, fron all sides. To expect a peloton to disregard all of that and act purely in each other's interests when fatigue and adrenalin are high is utterly ludicrous. The only reasonable solution is to make bikes safer and slower. Putting the onus on riders to solve this problem is not going to work. Sorry, it isn't, and the meat grinder is going to get worse and we're going to miss out on seeing the best riders because they're in a hospital bed.

 

[RedheadDane]

Rubber Ducks are part of EU safety regulations for bathtubs of all forms! Are you telling us you don't have a rubber duck? How do you even gather the courage to bathe than? Madness!

I have rubber duck!
I also have a bath tub.
I don't take baths all that often, though... showers are just easier.

 

[Izzyeviel]

aquaplane=to slide uncontrollably on a wet surface (from Oxford). So by that definition you can.

Maybe you are looking for a discussion/analysis of the coefficient of friction?

no. aquaplaning is when you lose grip in a vehicle because the water lifts the tires off the road. Not the case for bikes.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

I have rubber duck!
I also have a bath tub.
I don't take baths all that often, though... showers are just easier.

Same here, but for me it's because I don't have a rubber duck so most of the time I am just to scared.

 

[samhocking]

Since ice skating is aquaplaning between the blade and the ice, seems like it’s possible to happen on a bike (yes I realize the physical dynamic between rubber and pavement is different than skate and ice).

Aquaplaning is impossible on a bicycle, the contact patch is too small, this is also why bicycle tyre tread is purely cosmetic. All grip is obtained from the friction between stone and deforming the rubber, not the rubber channelling away water through the grooves to reduce potential aquaplaning.

 

[RedheadDane]

QUESTION!
Is it possible for a road to get wet enough that it technically becomes a (temporary) bathtub?
Is the real issue that none of the riders - presumably - were carrying rubber ducks?

 

[dobrien]

IMO, all pro sports are this way, rolling meat grinders. (ie: look at how many NFL teams have their star QB out for a few games and/or the rest of the season completely changing the fortunes of that team. NBA, NHL, similar. Three big stars out of MX right now with two others injured...).

I do think that there are more crashes now, but its not as dramatic of an increase as many are making it out to be. If I had to point to just one factor, its because all of the riders are so 'strong' now, everyone is flying (more guys going faster in the same space on the same old roads).

I hate to see any crashes, let alone ones that take out our 'favorites', but move on? To what? We just had a great spring of racing with big guns winning a lot, with a few surprises sprinkled in...I'm staying.

Move on to just watching Nordic ski racing and biathlon, which are my favorite sports by far (even without the Russians there). I also really enjoy F1 even though it is often too processional for my tastes, but I can tell you if it was still like it was in the 70's I would definitely not be watching it.

And also just playing my guitar, songwriting, painting, going to see live music, etc. There is a lot more to do with my time than watch sports, much as I love some of them. I guess everyone is going to have a different tipping point.. I'm certainly not going to cast aspersions on anyone if theirs is different than mine, but I've been getting to 'my' point for awhile and I think I'm there. Much as I enjoy watching cycling the world won't end tomorrow if I stop viewing.

I do think you're on to something regarding how strong everyone is these days, and how much more intense the infighting for position must be. Just my .02, cheers.