Contador 2009 842 Watts for 4 minutes, evidence of how bad track cyclists are. I think his 2313 for a minute beats Sir Chris too..
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Dave_1 said:Froome went up Ventoux in 59 minutes..4 minutes slower than Mayo, JV, and a minute slower than Pantani in 1994.
Ferminal said:Again , there are far less unreliable ways to do that than CP.
red_flanders said:You should look at how many of those were TT's and not road stages.
To be less cryptic, the only time you mention there which isn't, is Pantani's. Froome matched the times of all the hard-core dopers like Armstrong etc.
It would take the wildest leap of faith and imagination to believe anyone could do that clean, let alone Froome, whose early career didn't exactly show him to be the once-in-a-generation talent who...well couldn't come close to those times clean.
Dave_1 said:Am hoping you don't need it pointed out Pantani did Ventoux a minute faster than Froome in 1994 on an 8kg bike in a road stage compared to Froome's 6.9kg bike
Merckx index said:Contador, in particular, as noted above, had a much higher AEC in 2009 than in 2013. Why?
Dave_1 said:Froome went up Ventoux in 59 minutes..4 minutes slower than Mayo, JV, and a minute slower than Pantani in 1994.
Pantani did his Ventoux ascent before there was an EPO test, cycling didn't even have the 50% hematocrit test at that stage.Dave_1 said:Am hoping you don't need it pointed out Pantani did Ventoux a minute faster than Froome in 1994 on an 8kg bike in a road stage compared to Froome's 6.9kg bike
and Armstrong and Ullrich's TT times up Alpe dhuez simialr to their times in road stages up it. Not sure it's a clear advantage or disadvantagee to have a TT v a road stage up a mountain.
42x16ss said:Pantani did his Ventoux ascent before there was an EPO test, cycling didn't even have the 50% hematocrit test at that stage.
Jonathan Vaughters basically admitted to being doped to the gills for the Ventoux record - which was an ITT during a one week race, not 2 weeks into the TdF - in this very forum! Don't believe me? Do a search, his username is JV1971.
Either you are a relatively new fan, or something else. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt - for now.
Edit: Just saw your join date
Dave_1 said:Stop going on about TTs. 1994 road stage Ventoux. Pantani on 8kg bike 2 weeks into TDF 1994 and a minute faster than Froome 2 weeks in to 2013 TDF who was on a 6.9kg bike on a road stage. Give over about TTs and deal with comparable facts. What part of that don't you understand? Can you count?
Dave_1 said:Am hoping you don't need it pointed out Pantani did Ventoux a minute faster than Froome in 1994 on an 8kg bike in a road stage compared to Froome's 6.9kg bike
and Armstrong and Ullrich's TT times up Alpe dhuez simialr to their times in road stages up it. Not sure it's a clear advantage or disadvantagee to have a TT v a road stage up a mountain.
Ferminal said:But it's all the same line. If the 2min AWC value is invalid then the corresponding CP value means nothing either. For a given set of data and fixed CP there is only one solution for AWC, you can't not accept that number but pretend the CP value still holds. You wouldn't use CP if you were trying to disregard the anaerobic component, there are easier ways to get a rough idea of what someone is capable of for an hour. Obviously when Froome does 6.2 in a 40km in 2011 you'd think his aerobic ability is better than what this indicates. Either that or the anaerobic component is true...
Merckx index said:And what I find most interesting, though not at all surprising, is that people get their panties all into a wad depending on where they stand on Froome and Horner. Mention the possibility that this suggests that one is clean or the other is dirty, and the study becomes nonsense, automatically. Or conversely, if it supports that your hero is clean and your devil is dirty, the study is great. One can accept this method without being confined to particular conclusions about either. E.g., as I said earlier, there is a selection problem. Froome's ITT in the Vuelta suggests a higher CP than was calculated here. Also, there are no error estimates, which are particularly critical for calculating slope.
red_flanders said:All those guys were doped to the gills. Pantani probably the greatest climber ever, and recorded that time before the 50% hematocrit limit was put in place.
I would offer that it's probably an advantage not to have a hilly or even mountainous 200 km lead-in to the climb. Possibly you would be less fresh than a 1-hour TT effort. Maybe. Never mind that the times on climbs on TT's are always faster, independent of rider or course. See TT times up...well Ventoux and l'Alpe.
You're not seriously arguing that Froome's performance was legit, are you?
The Hitch said:
Ferminal said:Contador 2009 842 Watts for 4 minutes, evidence of how bad track cyclists are. I think his 2313 for a minute beats Sir Chris too..
Put down Walsh's work of fiction and do some research on the effect increased hematocrit has on FTP and time to exhaustion. Then consider that Pantani's hematocrit was 60% or higher at times during a grand tour.Dave_1 said:Stop going on about TTs. 1994 road stage Ventoux. Pantani on 8kg bike 2 weeks into TDF 1994 and a minute faster than Froome 2 weeks in to 2013 TDF who was on a 6.9kg bike on a road stage. Give over about TTs and deal with comparable facts. What part of that don't you understand? Can you count?
42x16ss said:Jonathan Vaughters basically admitted to being doped to the gills for the Ventoux record - which was an ITT during a one week race, not 2 weeks into the TdF - in this very forum! Don't believe me? Do a search, his username is JV1971.
42x16ss said:Well, the 50% rule was in place by then, so that was pushing things for that time, wouldn't you agree?
I'm also unsure if it was only EPO