Cuitu negro-like climbs: Yes or no?

[ansimi]

I thought is was a good stage. I like variety in races and I like to see different types of riding and also different scenery. It's a tour of Spain and I quite liked that particular view of Spain.

I don't think athletes should put their bodies through that sort of thing very often though.

 

[Bavarianrider]

One mountain like this is perfectly ok in a TT as long as there is a long flat TT to balance it.

 

[SafeBet]

One mountain like this is perfectly ok in a TT as long as there is a long flat TT to balance it.

Wait, I'm not sure I understand.
You would do a MTT on the likes of Angliru and Zoncolan?

 

[Pantani_lives]

A kilometer above 7% is steep enough for a strong climber to make the difference, so it's not really necessary to make the race exciting. However being a sensationalist I'm totally in favor.

MTT on the Angliru? Of course! We would all be plastered to the screen.

 

[RedheadDane]

Yes. Because, as has already been mentioned; cycling is/should be a mixture of all kinds of landscape.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Wait, I'm not sure I understand.
You would do a MTT on the likes of Angliru and Zoncolan?

Why not? But it doesn't matter if it is a MTT or a normal stage finish.
I have no problems if they use mountains like this as long as they balance it with flat TT kilometres.
But i think those mountains should not be overused, they are not really representing the traditional cyycling. Therefore they should only be used once or max twice a GT.
I prefer mountain stages which have many long climbs with normal gradients compared to those uphill sprints on one super steep climbs.

 

[Capablanca and me]

Yes, race(and fans) need very hard climbs

but keep the route balanced, not like this Vuelta....

edit: or this years TDF

 

[SafeBet]

Why not? But it doesn't matter if it is a MTT or a normal stage finish.

Dunno. I prefer steady 8% climbs for a MTT.
If they really have to put crazy gradients in the race I like to watch riders battling all together.

 

[icefire]

Thanks, all roads good enough to be used?

Fonte da Cova looks great.

Gamoniteiro needs new tarmac and it may have some space problems for a race finish. All others are OK.

 

[VO2 Max]

It's a guarantee of action, a guarantee of a spectacle. Whether you love them or hate them they're the organisers' logical response to the defensive tactics that have evolved the last few years; if everyone's going to wait for the last climb then lets make it as awesome as possible. (Also, it was a newly paved road on Monday which may have had an impact on the finale if not all the teams had a chance to properly recce it on a road bike.)

The best thing is to put a monster climb as the penultimate climb before a relatively easy finishing climb, Mortirolo-Aprica being the classic example. I don't know the area - looks like there might be a way down from Cuitunigru to Villamanin, then is there a gentler climb anywhere on the other side? Part way back up the Pajares perhaps?

 

[Asturiano]

Gamoniteiro needs new tarmac and it may have some space problems for a race finish. All others are OK.

Gamoniteiro is GREAT. I love this climb and I want you to take a look to this amazing climb. I really believe Vuelta can make a stage finish there (whatever Unipublic says):

Take a look to the photos:

http://39x28.blogia.com/2011/090301-gamoniteiru-al-detalle-altimetria-y-fotos-.php

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

I think today proved we don't need silly steepness like on cuitunegro.

 

[Asturiano]

I think today proved we don't need silly steepness like on cuitunegro.

Maybe because the big effort of the silly steepness we could watch an stage like this.

 

[Pulpstar]

Well I think today proved the full worth of having a Cuiti Negro in the Vuelta.

That sort of tough tough climb breaks people, bringing it down to more of a true race of the strongest. Asturiano is correct, without a Cuiti Negro today's rolling stage probably would not have been so epic.

 

[Anonymous]

Epic? Just an inter team fix.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Epic? Just an inter team fix.

How so? A maximum of 2 teams. Tiralongo was a mercenary working for a friend who did him a favour last year. Nothing to do with any Astana/Saxo deal.

I don't think there was a Saxo/Movistar deal either. I think Saxo had the move planned, Movistar noted the number of Saxo guys going down the road and thought "we'd better get in on that, something's up". I'd certainly be surprised if Valverde had any conspiracy planned against Rodríguez since the two are friends. And once Contador was up the road, Valverde looks at it like this:
- I am now in 3rd.
- If I do nothing, I will stay in 3rd.
- If I work together with Purito, we catch AC, everyone comes to the finish together, I stay in 3rd.
- If I work together with Purito and we DON'T catch AC, I stay in 3rd.
- If I attack Purito and catch AC, I will be 1st, 2nd OR 3rd and get a stage win.
- If I attack Purito and don't catch AC, I will be 2nd, or 3rd at worst.

Valverde had everything to gain from riding like he did, and Contador gambled. Saxo had guys up the road so Contador could do that.

Plus, if it was a conspiracy, Intxausti and Quintana would have helped pacing the Contador group, because the plan would be contingent on Contador gaining enough time. Instead, they did not. Which they had every right to do, of course, as they should point out "our team leader is behind, why the hell should we help you beat him?"

Without climbs like Cuitu Negru, the legs aren't as tired, and a fairly basic stage turns out to be a basic stage. In another way, it's like Aprica after Mortirolo. Aprica on its own its a pretty nothing climb, averaging about 3%. But put it after the Mortirolo and it destroys people - because of nothing more than having to go uphill again after the pain and suffering of the Mortirolo.

 

[42x16ss]

Without climbs like Cuitu Negru, the legs aren't as tired, and a fairly basic stage turns out to be a basic stage. In another way, it's like Aprica after Mortirolo. Aprica on its own its a pretty nothing climb, averaging about 3%. But put it after the Mortirolo and it destroys people - because of nothing more than having to go uphill again after the pain and suffering of the Mortirolo.

Well said, especially the above. Stages like Cuitu Negru should be used once a GT, maximum. They shouldn't be used too late in the race either, with enough stages left to encourage people to attack and recover lost time.

IMO that is one thing Unipublic has gotten right compared to ASO and RCS. Their placement of Angliru last year and Cuitu Negru this year within the race as a whole has been much better than when we have seen Queen stages in the Tour and Giro the last couple of years.

 

[forumlurker]

on super steep climbs, i can take them or leave them if they are the mountain top finish. if a technical, yet safe, descent is possible, i think they might make for an interesting penultimate climb. these climbs seem to favor a certain type of climber, so i don't care to see too many km of them in any gt. as good as this vuelta is, i think it had too many of these climbs.

on the other hand, this topic reminds me of the san francisco grand prix or barclay investor race or whatever, back in the early 2000s. they would do like 10 laps up 2 short, steep(!) hills in san francisco. i think they were taylor and fillmore, but i forget. on the first couple laps, everyone was charging. on the final laps, you could see who might podium and who was hurting, and many of the spent worker bees would abandon or switchback up the climbs. i do like this sort of climb in a circuit race. the tour of california should try a south to north route and finish in sf with a similar circuit sometime.

ok. back to lurking. chapeau, contador!

 

[hrotha]

Maybe because the big effort of the silly steepness we could watch an stage like this.

Proper mountains and long stages would have helped way more in that regard.